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[Vokarya]

Practical reasons. They used to obsolete at Ecological Engineering, so they used to last pretty much the entire game, are very cheap to build, and give +1 happy and +1 health. Philosophy seemed the most sane tech, in terms of no longer caring as much about the afterlife.

Blame whoever wrote that building, really. It's too powerful to stick around forever.

Do you want to do something else with Pyramids then? They are providing free Graveyards.

 

[os79]

Do you want to do something else with Pyramids then? They are providing free Graveyards.

It's early game Wonder. I think its Culture and GP generation should suffice until it's own obsolete-ness.

 

[Afforess]

Do you want to do something else with Pyramids then? They are providing free Graveyards.

No, it seems fine to me. Pyramids is a super-early wonder, Philosophy is a medieval tech.

 

[Combat Wombat]

So there is this really awkward phase in the game now where the War Elephant upgrades to Elephant Bombardier and none of the infantry units can upgrade yet and other mounted units can't even begin to compete. So the civ with the elephants can basically run amok all over everyone's faces.

Kinda bummed me out.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So there is this really awkward phase in the game now where the War Elephant upgrades to Elephant Bombardier and none of the infantry units can upgrade yet and other mounted units can't even begin to compete. So the civ with the elephants can basically run amok all over everyone's faces.

Kinda bummed me out.

Inequities occur from time to time, but are generally short lived. I think you'll survive. Really you will. Spear and Pike, remember spear and pike still works even against ele bombardiers.

JosEPh

 

[Afforess]

Yeah, I am fine with that sort of brief imbalance. Keeps the game interesting. Maybe develop a strategy around it.

 

[Combat Wombat]

The problem is it isn't that brief and its a fairly devastating imbalance..

Heavy Pikeman 13.5 vs Elephant Bombadier 16

Even the most specialized unit is almost 3 points down unless you completely rebuild your forces from scratch with Arquebusiers. But even then you still need one more tech, are one point down, have poor bonuses compared to the elephant bombadiers, and don't get to carry over your experienced units like the elephants can.

And it takes Matchlock, Metallurgy, Leadership, Calvary Tactics, and Flintlock until you can upgrade all of yours swordsman, pikemen, crossbowmen, macemen, etc. Five techs is not a short imbalance. Why can't all of those units just be able to upgrade to Arquebusier at Matchlock (preferred), or get a strength bonus at from Metallurgy (less preferred). The elephants would still maintain a good edge in both of these scenarios but not be completely overpowered for 30+ turns...

 

[Vokarya]

No, it seems fine to me. Pyramids is a super-early wonder, Philosophy is a medieval tech.

Philosophy is Classical Era. That's not very long; I like to give Wonders at least a couple of eras before they obsolete. I don't mind Graveyard going obsolete, but that seems way too short.

 

[Afforess]

Philosophy is Classical Era. That's not very long; I like to give Wonders at least a couple of eras before they obsolete. I don't mind Graveyard going obsolete, but that seems way too short.

What tech would you prefer it obsolete at?

 

[<Nexus>]

Practical reasons. They used to obsolete at Ecological Engineering, so they used to last pretty much the entire game, are very cheap to build, and give +1 happy and +1 health. Philosophy seemed the most sane tech, in terms of no longer caring as much about the afterlife.

That is a wrong reasoning.
People always care what happens with their lost ones. Philosophy did not "solve" this proplem, only gave more ideas of afterlife. People will always go out to the cemetery to grieve and mourn for their dead ones. It is deffinetily one of those buildings that never go obsolate. Not until you introduse an Immortality tech. Not just kidding! A tech, that gives your citizens virtual/cyberetic or biological/cloning immortality sure makes graveyards useless, but until such a transhuman tech it has its plase.
And about the bonus: It had always been a vital issue to burry the dead to prevent epidemics.
So please undo.

If you want to cut off its bonuses try this:

• add +0.1 / population, or just 0.05 / pop
• add -1 with Philosophy
• leave the bonus as it is

 

[Arakhor]

I agree with Sogroon that burying bodies is vital for city health. I've spent a lot of time in Anglican graveyards over the years and whilst they may not be happy places, they can generate an awful lot of pathos.

 

[<Nexus>]

I agree with Sogroon that burying bodies is vital for city health. I've spent a lot of time in Anglican graveyards over the years and whilst they may not be happy places, they can generate an awful lot of pathos.

...that is why there is a war penalty

 

[Arakhor]

I'm not sure why you appear to be disagreeing with me. I said that graveyards don't necessarily make people happy, but I do think that they bring peace of mind, which (in Civ terms) is much the same thing. I don't think the health boost should go away, even if the happiness boost does.

 

[<Nexus>]

I'm not sure why you appear to be disagreeing with me. I said that graveyards don't necessarily make people happy, but I do think that they bring peace of mind, which (in Civ terms) is much the same thing. I don't think the health boost should go away, even if the happiness boost does.

Sorry, I missread something.

 

[JosEPh_II]

The problem is it isn't that brief and its a fairly devastating imbalance..

Heavy Pikeman 13.5 vs Elephant Bombadier 16

Even the most specialized unit is almost 3 points down unless you completely rebuild your forces from scratch with Arquebusiers. But even then you still need one more tech, are one point down, have poor bonuses compared to the elephant bombadiers, and don't get to carry over your experienced units like the elephants can.

And it takes Matchlock, Metallurgy, Leadership, Calvary Tactics, and Flintlock until you can upgrade all of yours swordsman, pikemen, crossbowmen, macemen, etc. Five techs is not a short imbalance. Why can't all of those units just be able to upgrade to Arquebusier at Matchlock (preferred), or get a strength bonus at from Metallurgy (less preferred). The elephants would still maintain a good edge in both of these scenarios but not be completely overpowered for 30+ turns...

Hvy Pike (or even regular Pike/spear) have a built in +50% against mounted units so your 13 vs 16 doesn't hold water. And any battle tested unit of any kind will eventually have the option of getting the Mounted Promo similar to what Pike has as a base.

JosEPh

 

[Afforess]

Revision 762

• Replacement (upgrade) buildings count towards prerequisites
• Resources discovered by random chance from improvements can not appear on terrain types they are not valid for
• Display saved maintenance from buildings as negative (as in reducing maintenance costs)
• Cut down on excess padding space in civic screen
• Farms no longer give +1 food without irrigation or techs
• Farms no longer get +1 food with machine tools
• Jungle camp no longer gives +1 food without Naturopathy
• Jungle camp on river gives +1 commerce instead of +2 commerce
• Graveyard now obsoletes at Education instead of Philosophy
• Gold from Pillaging increased by 4x on all improvements

 

[Arakhor]

So, a farm without irrigation (or appropriate technology) gives 0 food??

 

[Afforess]

So, a farm without irrigation (or appropriate technology) gives 0 food??

Yes. That is how it works in BTS too. Go load it up.

Farms do give extra food on resources at the start.

 

[Arakhor]

I guess I haven't played BtS in so long, I'd forgotten that. Of course, my current game just hit Philosophy, so all my graveyards have already gone.

 

[Afforess]

I guess I haven't played BtS in so long, I'd forgotten that. Of course, my current game just hit Philosophy, so all my graveyards have already gone.

Load up 762, and control-shift-t. They will be back, I moved that to Education.