Another God Question: What would it take...

[brennan]

Your belief that there is no God. You have no proof of there not being one, but you believe that there is not one. So, by your standard, you should provide proof for your denial of God.

My proof is that I have experienced him first-hand through the Scriptures and in the World around me.

Your proof is delusion.

My proof is: God, as defined by most of the religious nutters in my experience, does not possess the qualities I equate with 'existence' (eg: being able to be poked with a stick) hence he cannot exist.

 

[Red Door]

Your proof is delusion.

My proof is: God, as defined by most of the religious nutters in my experience, does not possess the qualities I equate with 'existence' (eg: being able to be poked with a stick) hence he cannot exist.

How is my proof delusion? Because you don't believe in it? Because something isn't true to you, it isn't true to anyone?

Does air exist? Can I poke that with a stick? Does money or wealth exist? Can I poke those with a stick?

 

[CurtSibling]

Sorry, I'm late, but I got important things besides CFC.

What could be more important than CFC?

Were you at church?

Your belief that there is no God. You have no proof of there not being one, but you believe that there is not one. So, by your standard, you should provide proof for your denial of God.

Christians seem to have bit of trouble on the burden of proof issue.

I am not the holy one trying to convert the world. Or tax it for tithes.
However, you demand we all convert to worship your religion and god.

In which case you must provide valid reasons why I should abandon my
life-long held philosophy and jump on board your faith....Proof, please!!!

Whenever you are ready...!
Enough of the evasion and stalling!

My proof is that I have experienced him first-hand through the Scriptures and in the World around me.

Hardly means anything to me. How many times do you think I have heard this one?

I want real proof, not your imagination.

....

 

[Gogf]

Well, some evidence would be a start. A hypothesis that makes falsifiable predictions would be another step.

 

[Gogf]

Your belief that there is no God. You have no proof of there not being one, but you believe that there is not one. So, by your standard, you should provide proof for your denial of God.

No, that is not correct. The burden of proof is on the party making the positive assertion.

Do you accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster because you can't prove that he doesn't exist?

My proof is that I have experienced him first-hand through the Scriptures and in the World around me.

What does it mean to "experience God"? Can you give us a few more details about your experience? Was this experience only possible through divine intervention?

 

[Red Door]

What could be more important than CFC?

Were you at church?

School.

Christians seem to have bit of trouble on the burden of proof issue.

I am not the holy one trying to convert the world. Or tax it for tithes.
However, you demand we all convert to worship your religion and god.

In which case you must provide valid reasons with I should abandon my
life-long held philosophy and jump on board your faith....Proof, please!!!

Whenever you are ready...Enough of your squirming and stalling!

Do I care what you believe in? No, I don't. You offer why you don't believe in God, I offer why I do.

Hardly means anything to me.

How many times do you think I have heard this one?

I want real proof, not your imagination.

....

Okay, and you're obviously the divine source of all knowledge, so I am automatically wrong, correct?

I don't know, if a bunch of people say it, it must be true.

Real proof? How can I prove the existence of something without a physical body? How can I prove that God exists or doesn't? My proof is that I hear him in the Scriptures, as I've said. You have absolutely ZERO proof that he doesn't exist.

 

[brennan]

How is my proof delusion? Because you don't believe in it? Because something isn't true to you, it isn't true to anyone?

Does air exist? Can I poke that with a stick? Does money or wealth exist? Can I poke those with a stick?

If you think I mean only being able to poke something with a stick proves it is real, you need to go sit and think about that post for a few more minutes. Go stand outside on a windy day and you'll feel how real air is.

Money is real if it's coins and notes. Wealth is an idea, not a real thing.

 

[brennan]

You have absolutely ZERO proof that he doesn't exist.

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, get another point to make.

 

[Red Door]

No, that is not correct. The burden of proof is on the party making the positive assertion.

Do you accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster because you can't prove that he doesn't exist?

And I did, but Curt and other atheists posters belief is a positive assertion that there is no God. Why should they not prove that?

I don't accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster because I don't believe that there's such a thing. Can I prove he doesn't exist? No, I cannot, and neither can anyone.

What does it mean to "experience God"? Can you give us a few more details about your experience? Was this experience only possible through divine intervention?

It means I felt God via the Holy Spirit going through my body. I felt him helping me choose what I want to do with my decisions. Was it possible only with divine intervention? I don't really know and am in no position on the subject.

 

[Gogf]

I don't know, if a bunch of people say it, it must be true.

That is absolutely, fundamentally wrong.

My proof is that I hear him in the Scriptures, as I've said.

Frankly, that doesn't mean much of anything. You "hear him in the scriptures." Does that mean that you read the scriptures and interpret them as God talking to you? How do you know that they weren't written by another human being, intended as nothing more than an interesting piece of fiction?

You have absolutely ZERO proof that he doesn't exist.

And you have absolutely zero evidence that he does exist.

 

[GinandTonic]

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, get another point to make.

So true. Yet endlessly people chuck the same arguements at each other.

 

[Red Door]

If you think I mean only being able to poke something with a stick proves it is real, you need to go sit and think about that post for a few more minutes. Go stand outside on a windy day and you'll feel how real air is.

Money is real if it's coins and notes. Wealth is an idea, not a real thing.

I do see what you mean, and the whole thing is flawed. Christianity is about the belief that God exists, not the proof that he exists.

It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, get another point to make.

Your belief is that he doesn't exist. You make a positive assertion that he doesn't exist. Now get to proving me, or can you not? That's what I thought.

 

[Gogf]

And I did, but Curt and other atheists posters belief is a positive assertion that there is no God. Why should they not prove that?

Saying that something does not exist is not a positive assertion. You can use English to rephrase it however you want, but that doesn't change the fact that a lack of existence is NOT a positive assertion/

I don't accept the Flying Spaghetti Monster because I don't believe that there's such a thing. Can I prove he doesn't exist? No, I cannot, and neither can anyone.

Then why do you believe in God? Is there any more reason to believe in God than in the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

It means I felt God via the Holy Spirit going through my body.

I still have no idea what that means. Did you feel cold? Be specific, don't just say "I felt God!"

I felt him helping me choose what I want to do with my decisions.

You've established that you "felt him." I'd like you to explain what exactly that felt like. Nobody can really respond to the "evidence" that people have "experienced" or "felt" God if all they say is a differently worded version of "I felt God."

Was it possible only with divine intervention? I don't really know and am in no position on the subject.

Then why do you assume God if there may be other possibilities?

 

[brennan]

Read my posts Al. I presented an argument that the concept of God is not compatible with the concept of 'existing'. Proof is impossible, but I can point out that the idea is inconsistent with what we know of reality, and I have done so.

 

[Gogf]

Your belief is that he doesn't exist. You make a positive assertion that he doesn't exist. Now get to proving me, or can you not? That's what I thought.

As much fun as you can have with the English language, the lack of belief in the existence of something is not a positive assertion. The belief in the existence of something is.

 

[Red Door]

That is absolutely, fundamentally wrong.

That's not the point. I'm trying to say it's not a new idea, and if a bunch of people have it happen, it cannot be a unique experience.

Frankly, that doesn't mean much of anything. You "hear him in the scriptures." Does that mean that you read the scriptures and interpret them as God talking to you? How do you know that they weren't written by another human being, intended as nothing more than an interesting piece of fiction?

That means when I read the Scriptures, I hear him and my belief in him grows stronger.

They were written by a human being, and my BELIEF is that they are the Word of God.

And you have absolutely zero evidence that he does exist.

Again, I've proven several times in my belief that he exists. No side can prove that he exists or not. Stop beating the dead horse. I have not heard one single Atheist prove their belief that God doesn't exist.

 

[Red Door]

As much fun as you can have with the English language, the lack of belief in the existence of something is not a positive assertion. The belief in the existence of something is.

You're right. But, Atheists positively believe there is no God. That's their belief, that there is no God. This isn't a positive negative, it's a positive statement by Atheists.

Read my posts Al. I presented an argument that the concept of God is not compatible with the concept of 'existing'. Proof is impossible, but I can point out that the idea is inconsistent with what we know of reality, and I have done so.

Okay, then I see why you don't believe in him. Keep believing that, if you're satisfied with that reasoning, go ahead and believe it. I'll stick with my belief in God.

 

[Gogf]

That's not the point. I'm trying to say it's not a new idea, and if a bunch of people have it happen, it cannot be a unique experience.

Nobody said it was a unique experience.

That means when I read the Scriptures, I hear him and my belief in him grows stronger.

That still doesn't tell us anything. How do you "hear him"? I presume you're being metaphoric - you don't actually hear God's voice - but I still have no idea what you mean.

They were written by a human being, and my BELIEF is that they are the Word of God.

Why do you believe this?

Again, I've proven several times in my belief that he exists.

That doesn't make any sense.

No side can prove that he exists or not.

Nothing is ever proven in science. You might notice, for example, that you also can't prove to me that you exist.

I have not heard one single Atheist prove their belief that God doesn't exist.

There are a few reasons for this:

1. You can't "prove beliefs." That doesn't make any sense.
2. Nothing is ever proven in science.
3. We don't need. The burden of proof is on the party making the positive assertion.

 

[CurtSibling]

School.

Then consider this thread your detention!

Do I care what you believe in? No, I don't. You offer why you don't believe in God, I offer why I do.

I don't believe in anything.

Why even bother trying to win me over with your half-formed view of the world?

Okay, and you're obviously the divine source of all knowledge, so I am automatically wrong, correct?

Now you are getting with the program!

I don't know, if a bunch of people say it, it must be true.

You'll learn that many silly opinions of the masses don't amount to a genius idea.

Follow your own ideas...Much better.

Real proof? How can I prove the existence of something without a physical body? How can I prove that God exists or doesn't? My proof is that I hear him in the Scriptures, as I've said. You have absolutely ZERO proof that he doesn't exist.

Hehe!

Well, I think I can call that another crash and burn for the forces of theism.

Although, this is a young person, and I expected a tantrum eventually.

So, when is a religionist ever going to offer some proof to silence we atheists?

,,,

 

[Gogf]

You're right. But, Atheists positively believe there is no God. That's their belief, that there is no God. This isn't a positive negative, it's a positive statement by Atheists.

Some atheists believe that it is impossible for God to exist. I am not one of them. If you want, you can press the matter with them.

However, the fact is that the burden of proof is on the party making the positive assertion. Until some evidence has been presented in one direction or the other, the default position is nonexistence.