Anti-Nazis riot in Ohio

[Communisto]

The law does not neccesarily protect the public. Plenty of examples of that throughout history. The law is an agent used by the state. The police carry out the law.

I agree completely. Police officers as agents of the nation-state are not usually trusted by me, as in past experiences they have done nothing but oppress. If we really must have cops, I say elect them. That will be a step in the right direction.

 

[wit>trope]

From various media reports (and you have to know that all of them are going to be biased against the Nazis or Neo-Nazis), it seems that the Nazis were NOT looking for any violent fight:

1. They wanted to march in a different area where there would not likely have been any confrontation but the city refused to give them a permit.

2. The city in refusing to give them the permit which would have allowed the city to ensure their safety (and everyone else's), told them that they would have to march on sidewalks and stuff. They told non-Nazis that they were unable to stop them from marching on places like sidewalks.

3. Even Bill O'Reilly, notorious critic of white proms, says that the city messed up by having them march in this area. He seemed to suggest that they should have gone to a judge and have the judge prevent them from marching at all or they should have allowed them to march in a different area -- just like I'm saying (the different area thing).

4. It was a relative handful of Nazis (somewhere between 10 and 20 if IIRC) against like somewhere around 500-2000 anti-Nazis. You've got to be kidding me if you think the anti-Nazis did this in self-defense or anything like that. 10-20 versus 500-2000 (I think it was about 1000) tells you who is at fault. The exact numbers should be in some media reports.

5. As far as I can tell from the limited research I've done, neo-Nazis do not advocate any illegal acts nor do they advocate murder or anything like that.

6. I just want to say that only a minority of pro-white people are neo-Nazis (based on my limited experience)

7. Not all pro-white people are white supremacists. Some specifically reject the idea that the white race is superior and say that all races are "equal" In my limited experience visiting a pro-white website, it seemed that the majority or close to it there were not white supremacists.

8. The reason why you think the neo-Nazis are super-super-evil is because you associate them with the horror of the Holocaust which killed somewhere around 1-15 million people. From what I can tell the neo-Nazis that admire Hitler do not believe that Hitler was responsible for mass murder -- so call them super super bad historians if you want, but I don't see why they would be super-super-evil, necessarily ... just as someone who doesn't believe that the devil is evil isn't super super evil for thinking that the devil might be good (like people who wonder if maybe the devil is the good guy and God is the bad guy -- I think these people are stupid but they aren't super evil for thinking that about the devil -- same with neo-Nazis)

9. I am not a neo-Nazi or anything like that. I do however like to understand other people and their perspectives. That's why I've been doing this research, off and on.

 

[HannibalBarka]

..
8. The reason why you think the neo-Nazis are super-super-evil is because you associate them with the horror of the Holocaust which killed somewhere around 1-15 million people.

The somewhere around 1-15 million people is a big somewhere in my opinion
Historian tend to think that the Holocost did cause the death of 6 Million Jews. I am wondering where are you taking the low figure (ie 1 million) from? Is that from a neo-nazi but friendly web site ?

 

[A'AbarachAmadan]

9. I am not a neo-Nazi or anything like that. I do however like to understand other people and their perspectives. That's why I've been doing this research, off and on.

This is just as bad as the appologists for Saddam or any number of other extremists. These extremist groups are evil; there perspective is wrong. Condoning or providing sanctuary for evil doers makes one an evil doer. What the white supremists put on a web and how they act in private is often very different. Separate but equal isn't! I've experienced their discrimination and it is bad.

 

[wit>trope]

The somewhere around 1-15 million people is a big somewhere in my opinion

The proportional range of difference is conquerable or less than the range of difference among mainstream historians throughout the years regarding deaths from the Inquisitions. If the Inquisitions have vastly differing estimates by historians (with more recent historians, including Jewish ones, tending to estimate far far far lower numbers than older historians), then shouldn't the Holocaust also have vastly differing estimates? After all we have more direct records of the Inquisitions than we do of the Holocaust. The Holocaust death count uses as much extrapolation and guess work as do the various Inquisition death counts -- which again vary even more than the Holocaust ones.

Historian tend to think that the Holocost did cause the death of 6 Million Jews.

There is no unanimous consensous among serious historians as to that number. This is one of the common myhs about the Holocaust. Also btw my number of 1-15 million was including not just Jews but the Catholics (including priests, nuns), Gypsies, Mentally Disabled, Mentally ********, Political Opponents, Slavs, etc. that also died. Their deaths are not less important than the deaths of the Jews.

I am wondering where are you taking the low figure (ie 1 million) from? Is that from a neo-nazi but friendly web site ?

No, the really low estimates are even lower than 1 million. I just looked at all the estimates and just wrote that ball park range.

It's sad sad sad that this historical question has become a political one. We should decide based on what's true, not what's politically correct or what fits into our racial ideology or personal heroes.

 

[wit>trope]

What the white supremists put on a web and how they act in private is often very different.

That's true...but part of my research involved looking at a pro-white forum which has like over one thousand people online at any one time. They didn't seem to be hiding anything there about their various views. Also they were not all white supremists. Only about half or less were white supremists. Some even specifically stated all races are equal.

Separate but equal isn't!

Idea that separate is necessarily unequal is both logically and empirically false. If separate is necessarily unequal, then that would mean all-girl and all-boy schools are wrong. So would you be for abolishing all those schools that restrict membership to one sex? Unless you have the SAME judgment about sexual separation as you do about racial separation in terms of the separate=unequal thing, you are being inconsistent, logically.

I've experienced their discrimination and it is bad.

OK, but it's also prejudiced to assume they are ALL bad or that they ALL think the same way, right? Being unprejudiced means you judge each INDIVIDUAL on his or her OWN INDIVIDUAL merits and that whatever bad experience you have with whatever groups they fall into that you always reserve judgment about an individual you haven't met.

I'm against all prejudice.

 

[IglooDame]

Idea that separate is necessarily unequal is both logically and empirically false. If separate is necessarily unequal, then that would mean all-girl and all-boy schools are wrong. So would you be for abolishing all those schools that restrict membership to one sex? Unless you have the SAME judgment about sexual separation as you do about racial separation in terms of the separate=unequal thing, you are being inconsistent, logically.

So you're okay with separate bathrooms for white people and non-white people?

 

[wit>trope]

So you're okay with separate bathrooms for white people and non-white people?

My point was that separate does NOT ALWAYS equal unequal. It seems like you agree with that point. Besides the sexual examples of all-girl, all-boy schools (schooling of all years including elementary, high, and college), there's also examples of how some churches, apparently, used to have sexually separate seating (men on one side, women on the other). There's also racial examples today of schools that are all or virtually all-black and Clarence Thomas remarked how it would be a great shame if these schools ended up being messed with in the name of integration or something like that. These are "historically black" schools that apparently was very important in serving black people and which black people like Thomas find lots of sentimental value in (maybe intellectual value too). Thomas is someone with IMHO above average IQ.

P.S. To answer your question. No I don't think that would be a good idea, although the more bathrooms the better for obvious reasons. I think that would be a needlessly inefficient idea. What might be a GOOD idea is to have separate bathrooms for people born on an odd year versus even year -- this would have obvious public health benefits since the spread of diseases would be curtailed (it's like having all 1000 people in the same room versus 500 in one room and 500 in another room and each with separate exits and entries -- the latter is better for public health, especially in a bird flu outbreak)

 

[Truronian]

If its not white supremacy, then what exactly is pro-white?

 

[wit>trope]

Tru, just go to a pro-white website (I cannot link to one for obvious reasons) and learn about it (try googling "David Duke" and then click to get to another website with no affiliation with Duke) Some pro-white people are "white nationalists" and some are "white supremacists" and some are both and some are neither. "White nationalists" are JUST LIKE the KURDS in Iraq, many of whom want a separate place for them or JUST LIKE the KURDS in TURKEY who want the same, etc. It's really a double standard to label WN's as evil while thinking the Kurds, etc are good. Some are probably evil and some are good -- just like any other group. It's prejudice to think they are ALL evil.

 

[Truronian]

Ok, that makes sense, although I'm not sure your comparison to the Kurbs applies (the Kurds want a home country to avoid persecution).

 

[wit>trope]

Wow, we agree on something! Thanks Comparison is good because Turkey says that the Kurds are not being persecuted and shouldn't feel threatened, etc. but the Kurds still do feel threatened, etc. Just like these whites feel threatened, etc even though America says they shouldn't feel that way

 

[IglooDame]

Wow, we agree on something! Thanks Comparison is good because Turkey says that the Kurds are not being persecuted and shouldn't feel threatened, etc. but the Kurds still do feel threatened, etc. Just like these whites feel threatened, etc even though America says they shouldn't feel that way

Well, if "America" says they shouldn't feel that way, America has an awful lot of data to back it up.

Whites make up the largest minority population in the US.

Forty three presidents in a row have been white.

Eight out of nine current SCOTUS justices are white.

The vast majority of US state governors are white.

The majority of US senators and representatives are white.

Economically, whites are doing far better than non-whites.

There is a far higher proportion of non-whites in prison than whites.

And while there may be a higher percentage of non-white athletes in professional sports compared to whites, the coaching jobs are still mostly filled by whites.

 

[luiz]

Why don't you trust The People (through election) to perform such task? when you trust Them for matters like "Declaring wars", "telleing you what you can do and what you can't", etc? What makes this different?

I actually don´t trust "the people" to do any of those things.
That´s why I´m against the draft so that I can choose not to take part in any war that I disagree with and I also support numerous individual rights that cannot be changed by popular will.

 

[wit>trope]

Igloo, their concerns are different from that. You should really learn about them before pre-judging them. And besides, even if what you say is true, that would just mean they are more stupid or paranoid than the Kurds, not that they are super evil while Kurds in Turkey are good.

 

[IglooDame]

Igloo, their concerns are different from that. You should really learn about them before pre-judging them. And besides, even if what you say is true, that would just mean they are more stupid or paranoid than the Kurds, not that they are super evil while Kurds in Turkey are good.

Okay, what are their concerns?

 

[wit>trope]

You know I don't know all about that yet. Also as I said they are not monolithic. Some describe themselves as "MODERATE" Here's one example

Im somewhat new to this forum and notice alot of different viewpoints.
I wonder how many members are like myself and have moderate views.
I believe that Immigration is beyond out of control.
Being White has become something to ashamed of with alot of todays youth.I depise the Liberal Agenda in the Media & MTV.
Im very Much into European history and proud of my Heritage.
I see a bleak future for White America and Europe if the Current course isnt changed.
I dont believe the Jews are behind everything ...I will admit that many Jewish People are very Leftist and members of the A.C.L.U and Leftist Media..etc.
I Believe in having friends of other races if they are decent people and share my values.
I believe in Marriage to someone of European Heritage only.
My Heritage is something to be proud of and nothing could ever change that and i will never give that up.

 

[luiz]

@Cierden
A crucial difference, besides all the ones Igloo mentioned, is that the whites in the US are the dominan group, not a minority. They are more analogue to the turks then to the kurds. It would make more sense for a "black nationalist" to link his cause to the kurdish one then for a white one to do so.

Edit: and the guy you quoted sounds like a nazi to me.

 

[wit>trope]

@Cierden
A crucial difference, besides all the ones Igloo mentioned, is that the whites in the US are the dominan group, not a minority.

Whites are a minority in much of the US. We've had threads about that here. Also whites are projected to be a minority in the near future due to immigration and higher non-white birth rates.

They are more analogue to the turks then to the kurds. It would make more sense for a "black nationalist" to link his cause to the kurdish one then for a white one to do so.

There are black nationalists. You guys don't seem to know much about this! There are plenty of black separatists. One was just on O'Reilly Factor the other day.

Besides, my point remains that the lack of parity in the comparison would only serve to mean that the WNs are more stupid or more paranoid than the Kurds, not that they are super evil while Kurds are good.

 

[luiz]

Whites are only a outnumbered in Hawaii and in the District of Columbia.
In Texas, California and New Mexico whites are the largest minority. Nation-wide they are still a big majority. Considering that they also are financially better-off and hold most of the elected offices, I don´t see how anyone no matter how stupid can actually claim that whites are oppressed in the US. I can see a case against racial AA, but it ends there.