Replace fascists with antifa and the end result is the same. We'll cross that bridge when the 'fascists' are attacking people to shut them up.
I asked if you would associate their behavior with fascism. At least you're consistent, beating up protesters isn't fascistic. Unless of course the people beating up protesters are fascists.
Why dont you support their tactics?
And lawyers defend bad people... Course the assumption speaks volumes about antifa, they're not showing up to speak but to stop speech therefore anyone with a flag, Constitution or free speech sign becomes the enemy. So on antifa's enemies list are not just racists/fascists but anyone who thinks they should be free to speak. Why doesn't antifa just attack the supreme court? Those folk are defending the free speech of racists.
Replace fascist with communists in lot of places and the result is the same that doesn’t make the communists fascists. And honestly replace fascists with Sam Adams’ little liberty brigades and you have the same result as well, that didn’t make them fascists either.
I am consistent on this to some extent. Right now I consider that line property destruction, but that could shift if we continue to see this dichotomy in society get worse. I don’t support their tactics because violence should only be used in extreme situations. I still believe throughout most of the US supremacists should be treated as ignorant dogs and not beaten up. That view could change too and this cycle has led us back to more racism then ever before in my life.
I can’t speak for antifa in the USA’s region. They don’t seem to have and organizing set of rules or anything. I wouldn’t be that interested if they did, as far as I can tell no one on their side of things have been walking into white churches blowing people away because they are WASPs or trying to run over peaceful protesters with cars.
American Antifa are mostly just cosplayers. They've seen some cool pictures of Greek or Italian anarchists all decked out in black, but they're not actually engaging in physical confrontation with fascists. They attended the same counter-protests as common or garden variety anti-fascists, they just stand up front and shout the loudest. A few of them have clobbered the odd Nazi, but you don't need a black balaclava to do that.
All this right-wing hysteria has turned them into something much more imposing, much more important than they actually are.
Antifa is mostly just people putting stickers on lampost or leaving flyers in bars.
The black block is a very small minority and I suspect at least a 10% of the violent ones are informants or undercover cops providing convenient excuses to break up protests.
Still, making the far right afraid can be a useful service to society.
Antifa is mostly just people putting stickers on lampost or leaving flyers in bars.
The black block is a very small minority and I suspect at least a 10% of the violent ones are informants or undercover cops providing convenient excuses to break up protests.
Still, making the far right afraid can be a useful service to society.
Just showing up, manifesting as antifa, is enough to show the people at home that the fringe far right is not accepted by many, and because of what values is not acceptable..
No real need to make the far right afraid imo.
American Antifa are mostly just cosplayers. They've seen some cool pictures of Greek or Italian anarchists all decked out in black, but they're not actually engaging in physical confrontation with fascists. They attended the same counter-protests as common or garden variety anti-fascists, they just stand up front and shout the loudest. A few of them have clobbered the odd Nazi, but you don't need a black balaclava to do that.
I don't know that this is entirely fair, I mean, I obviously agree that the right has made them out more important than they are, but given that there just aren't that many Nazis/fascists around here either "physical confrontation with fascists" is generally going to amount to "clobbered the odd Nazi", no?
The black block is a very small minority and I suspect at least a 10% of the violent ones are informants or undercover cops providing convenient excuses to break up protests.
Yeah, I always suspected something like this since the London student protests. It's so very easy to smear a movement by doing this. Moderates would quickly jump on it and the whole movement would be branded as violent and irredeemable.
I decided since then that being so afraid of being painted as extremist or violent is just not worth it and probably won't work anyway.
I don't know that this is entirely fair, I mean, I obviously agree that the right has made them out more important than they are, but given that there just aren't that many Nazis/fascists around here either "physical confrontation with fascists" is generally going to amount to "clobbered the odd Nazi", no?
That's kind of the problem, though. The European tradition of militant anti-fascism they're mimicking assumes a strong, ground-level fascist presence in working class communities. Their tactics were developed as a practical response to that. In the absence of such a presence, all the snazzy black gear is just a costume.
That's kind of the problem, though. The European tradition of militant anti-fascism they're mimicking assumes a strong, ground-level fascist presence in working class communities. Their tactics were developed as a practical response to that. In the absence of such a presence, all the snazzy black gear is just a costume.
I don't entirely disagree. I will note that there are cases where they have saved people from being beaten up and possibly seriously injured, e.g. at Charlottesville a couple of years ago. A lot of it is LARPing which is why it's doubly funny that some of our friends here at CFC are calling them terrorists and claiming they are a bigger threat to free speech than fascists are.
Yeah, I always suspected something like this since the London student protests. It's so very easy to smear a movement by doing this. Moderates would quickly jump on it and the whole movement would be branded as violent and irredeemable.
I decided since then that being so afraid of being painted as extremist or violent is just not worth it and probably won't work anyway.
most people, especially outside of Europe, aren't even aware of the existence of the BB and just think of them as Antifa
people are just ignorant. it's the same with many "subcultures", really. Skinheads nowadays are almost always associated with white supremacy, when Anarcho skins, Apolitical skins and leftist-extremist skins probably make up half of all skinheads. It's a shame.
That's kind of the problem, though. The European tradition of militant anti-fascism they're mimicking assumes a strong, ground-level fascist presence in working class communities. Their tactics were developed as a practical response to that. In the absence of such a presence, all the snazzy black gear is just a costume.
@Traitorfish , i doubt there is much "tradition of fighting fascists" among 16 year old rich kids. And obviously if one kills it sort of should follow they are to be thrown to jail, regardless of what garbage they parrot.
Then again daddy's lawyer comes to the rescue.
Those people ussually have more in common with soccer hooligans; another rich european tradition.
American Antifa are mostly just cosplayers. They've seen some cool pictures of Greek or Italian anarchists all decked out in black, but they're not actually engaging in physical confrontation with fascists. They attended the same counter-protests as common or garden variety anti-fascists, they just stand up front and shout the loudest. A few of them have clobbered the odd Nazi, but you don't need a black balaclava to do that.
All this right-wing hysteria has turned them into something much more imposing, much more important than they actually are.
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