Antifa rocks!

[Sommerswerd]

counterpoint:

The bit about talking points is good. Thanks for this video Owen.

 

[Peuri]

English teachers are the real fascists

lol, they literally are. They are enforcing an artificially unified grammar and lexicon that reduces the diversity of spoken language(s) into a tool of the nationalistic narrative creation of a monoculturalized entity, and to be used as a tool of the capitalists to push their profit margin by increasing productivity.

 

[Patine]

lol, they literally are. They are enforcing an artificially unified grammar and lexicon that reduces the diversity of spoken language(s) into a tool of the nationalistic narrative creation of a monoculturalized entity, and to be used as a tool of the capitalists to push their profit margin by increasing productivity.

But where's the hyper-nationalist and irredentist rhetoric, and military glorification and parades, and revival of an interpretation of "golden age" morals, society, and glory, tailored to fit the most aggressive, chauvinistic, and macho view (often highly dressed up and revised) of the Fascists' home nation, and the categorization of "true citizens from the chafe" in one way or another, the abolition of labour unions and anti-Socialist and anti-Communist rhetoric (in a way and to an intensity that only McCarthy and the HUAC have even come remotely close to pursuing in the US), and the Leader Principle. You, @Dachs, @Berzerker, and a few others here, and the Antifa hooligans, seem to think all the above elements don't necessarily NEED to be present and are just optional flourishes, but that Fascism is easily present without them. HELLO! The things I listed above are DEFINING and INTEGRAL elements of Fascism and what it means and stands for. This is why I said above in a post that Fascism is a very specific socio-political phenomenon and not just a catch-all or waste-basket ideology for certain objection behaviors!

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Foucault would gladly tell you how much of the modern schooling system is actually derived from specific military practices: Scheduling, partition into specific time segments, the greetings, the hand gestures, and many others. It's a franco-prussian Frankenstein.

 

[Dachs]

lol, they literally are. They are enforcing an artificially unified grammar and lexicon that reduces the diversity of spoken language(s) into a tool of the nationalistic narrative creation of a monoculturalized entity, and to be used as a tool of the capitalists to push their profit margin by increasing productivity.

That was adorable.

But where's the hyper-nationalist and irredentist rhetoric, and military glorification and parades, and revival of an interpretation of "golden age" morals, society, and glory, tailored to fit the most aggressive, chauvinistic, and macho view (often highly dressed up and revised) of the Fascists' home nation, and the categorization of "true citizens from the chafe" in one way or another, the abolition of labour unions and anti-Socialist and anti-Communist rhetoric (in a way and to an intensity that only McCarthy and the HUAC have even come remotely close to pursuing in the US), and the Leader Principle. You, @Dachs, @Berzerker, and a few others here, and the Antifa hooligans, seem to think all the above elements don't necessarily NEED to be present and are just optional flourishes, but that Fascism is easily present without them. HELLO! The things I listed above are DEFINING and INTEGRAL elements of Fascism and what it means and stands for. This is why I said above in a post that Fascism is a very specific socio-political phenomenon and not just a catch-all or waste-basket ideology for certain objection behaviors!

Nice.

Foucault would gladly tell you how much of the modern schooling system is actually derived from specific military practices: Scheduling, partition into specific time segments, the greetings, the hand gestures, and many others. It's a franco-prussian Frankenstein.

I incorporate what my students despairingly refer to as "military time" (because American civilians don't know how to tell time properly), along with the patented US Army Knife Hand and military terminology like "concept of operations". I have even described my approach to attendance as "Fünf Minuten vor der Zeit ist Soldatenhöflichkeit (!)". although seriously I did use that once but I said "Schülerhöflichkeit" because this kiddo was late to a mock job interview

All I need to complete the true Nazi ensemble is a proper Talar.

 

[Mouthwash]

American Antifa are mostly just cosplayers. They've seen some cool pictures of Greek or Italian anarchists all decked out in black, but they're not actually engaging in physical confrontation with fascists. They attended the same counter-protests as common or garden variety anti-fascists, they just stand up front and shout the loudest. A few of them have clobbered the odd Nazi, but you don't need a black balaclava to do that.

All this right-wing hysteria has turned them into something much more imposing, much more important than they actually are.

Unlike the alt-right, of course.

Spoiler NSFW :

Case in point.

 

[Lexicus]

Unlike the alt-right, of course.

I mean the last time we had Antifascist Aktion in the White House was roughly 1945, whereas the alt-right is very much in the White House today...

 

[Imaus]

Comin' from a hodgepodge of lefitst militias and fighters, I'm obviously very biased, and the following will probably be little more than gibberish for some, but eh. Antifa is just some section of the centrist and leftist public drawing a line. "You want to be public? We will, too. You're not unopposed." Sure, bad optics exist and the disorganized, decentralized, and amateur nature of this nearly alien concept to the US will make them the new boogeyman for the right, just like BLM was a few years ago, but in a nation where the right-wing can call up tens-of-thousands of rabid, armed militias and their materiel, the US can handle this, and more, from the left. A society with only one armed wing, infiltrating all levels of society, is not a safe society for everyone else; and there's nothing wrong with mass mobilization, self-arming, and preparing for self-defense and keeping the playing field balanced more than just 'the left will be slaughtered if shooting starts everywhere outside of New England'.

Again, sure, that might just cause more of a reaction, but if the US is so truly right-wing that thirty years of rightist foaming-of-the-mouth can go unopposed but not leftist ones, then, IMO, that just means the left needs to play catchup a lot faster.

 

[Estebonrober]

Comin' from a hodgepodge of lefitst militias and fighters, I'm obviously very biased, and the following will probably be little more than gibberish for some, but eh. Antifa is just some section of the centrist and leftist public drawing a line. "You want to be public? We will, too. You're not unopposed." Sure, bad optics exist and the disorganized, decentralized, and amateur nature of this nearly alien concept to the US will make them the new boogeyman for the right, just like BLM was a few years ago, but in a nation where the right-wing can call up tens-of-thousands of rabid, armed militias and their materiel, the US can handle this, and more, from the left. A society with only one armed wing, infiltrating all levels of society, is not a safe society for everyone else; and there's nothing wrong with mass mobilization, self-arming, and preparing for self-defense and keeping the playing field balanced more than just 'the left will be slaughtered if shooting starts everywhere outside of New England'.

Again, sure, that might just cause more of a reaction, but if the US is so truly right-wing that thirty years of rightist foaming-of-the-mouth can go unopposed but not leftist ones, then, IMO, that just means the left needs to play catchup a lot faster.

I don't agree with their tactics but I certainly sympathize with this point. The further right in the US is itching for a real fight and they seem convinced they have the the armaments to just impose their will on the rest of the nation. Just spend a while reading breitbart comments or any story that has been linked by the drudge report and you will see the internet warriors calling for blood. This does call for a counter point.

 

[Estebonrober]

Unlike the alt-right, of course.



Case in point.

Yea, Stephen Miller is running this government shutdown. He is an alt right hero dominating US government right now. Seriously where have you been?

 

[Phrossack]

I don't agree with their tactics but I certainly sympathize with this point. The further right in the US is itching for a real fight and they seem convinced they have the the armaments to just impose their will on the rest of the nation. Just spend a while reading breitbart comments or any story that has been linked by the drudge report and you will see the internet warriors calling for blood. This does call for a counter point.

And it's coming past time for the left to have the same armament as the right. The right has proven they'll discard their values whenever the Don commands it. I have no doubts they'd obey his order to cut down the tall trees if he gave it.

 

[Patine]

I mean the last time we had Antifascist Aktion in the White House was roughly 1945, whereas the alt-right is very much in the White House today...

No, Trump isn't Alt-Right, himself. His only ideology is his own public image and self-promotion, period. But, I definitely agree that some very scary far-right-wing activists, wackos, conspiracy theorists, and fairy tale true-believers do have his ear much moreso than is remotely or sanely appropriate.

 

[Patine]

And it's coming past time for the left to have the same armament as the right. The right has proven they'll discard their values whenever the Don commands it. I have no doubts they'd obey his order to cut down the tall trees if he gave it.

How about people just come to their senses and throw away the old, unworkable, failed, broken, cliched, deadwood of the left vs. right ideology system and embrace common sense, practical, needed, and adaptive policies based on the context and situation at hand? What a staggering thought!

 

[Ajidica]

And it's coming past time for the left to have the same armament as the right. The right has proven they'll discard their values whenever the Don commands it. I have no doubts they'd obey his order to cut down the tall trees if he gave it.

I'm going to have to disagree with this. While there have always been a handful looking to live our their "Turner Diaries" fanfic, the alt-reich has apparently lost its taste for mass action since Charlottesville and the "very good people on both sides" backlash. For example, there are no self-appointed "Border Security Squads" of paramilitaries going around rounding up suspected illegals on their own.

 

[Phrossack]

I'm going to have to disagree with this. While there have always been a handful looking to live our their "Turner Diaries" fanfic, the alt-reich has apparently lost its taste for mass action since Charlottesville and the "very good people on both sides" backlash. For example, there are no self-appointed "Border Security Squads" of paramilitaries going around rounding up suspected illegals on their own.

I'm not so certain. We know the alt-right, and the American right in general, have rewritten their whole moral code and values systems in order to keep supporting Trump. From evangelicals changing their minds on adultery, to traditional conservatives deciding Trump's attacks on veterans are fine and dandy, they've proven that all their values were just for show and that the only thing that matters is tribal loyalty.

We also know many are itching for a fight. Just see the NRA's threatening ads and general threats of a civil war, or the conservative tendency to show up to rallies with rifles on their backs. It doesn't need to be a majority or even plurality of people on one side to want violence; as long as a few start shooting, things escalate and drag in others.

So it's not really a leap to believe that if, say, Trump looks like he'll lose in 2020, urges "Second Amendment types" to "protect voting booths from tampering by any means necessary," or if he does lose and say it's a coup and America's last chance at freedom is to rise up, that many people will heed his words and shoot. When that happens, the police cannot be trusted to protect the public. They're not trained or equipped for heavy fighting with militias, and many of them may actually join in.

Looking at Rwanda, there were years of talk radio stirring up intense hatred and priming the Hutu extremists to kill, talking of Tutsis as "cockroaches" and threats to the people. We've had that for decades in the US. Conservative talk radio has changed the political climate here and has primed millions to think of liberals as monsters and threats to America who must be kept in line or silenced. I think it's unwise for the rest of the country to lack organization or means of defense given all this.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm going to have to disagree with this. While there have always been a handful looking to live our their "Turner Diaries" fanfic, the alt-reich has apparently lost its taste for mass action since Charlottesville and the "very good people on both sides" backlash. For example, there are no self-appointed "Border Security Squads" of paramilitaries going around rounding up suspected illegals on their own.

I mean there was still border patrol vigilantes making pilgrimages to the border as recent as Nov 28, 2018.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/lo...llegal-Border-Crossings-to-CBP-501500411.html

Just because they don't make the headlines as frequently doesn't mean they are not out there still. We still have record numbers of gun toting paramilitary groups playing soldier out in the woods.

 

[Estebonrober]

Looking at Rwanda, there were years of talk radio stirring up intense hatred and priming the Hutu extremists to kill, talking of Tutsis as "cockroaches" and threats to the people. We've had that for decades in the US. Conservative talk radio has changed the political climate here and has primed millions to think of liberals as monsters and threats to America who must be kept in line or silenced. I think it's unwise for the rest of the country to lack organization or means of defense given all this.

This is what I see as well, I remember when I realized that it was just all hateful nonsense not born of any pragmatism. Obama had just won election in 07' and the calls for usurpation started and really have not ever stopped.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

when you can read about "the day of the rope", the upcoming "race war" and similiar things every freakin day on alt-right echochambers I'm actually glad that the left has some semblance of executive branch as well, otherwise these power fantasies, which have often ended in mass murder (see synagogue shooting and other incidents) can manifest much more easily. alt-right bashing is nice and fun, but there are genuinely people out there who are only waiting to draw their weapon, and that's scary as hell.

Looking at Rwanda, there were years of talk radio stirring up intense hatred and priming the Hutu extremists to kill, talking of Tutsis as "cockroaches" and threats to the people. We've had that for decades in the US. Conservative talk radio has changed the political climate here and has primed millions to think of liberals as monsters and threats to America who must be kept in line or silenced. I think it's unwise for the rest of the country to lack organization or means of defense given all this.

rwanda is kind of a difficult comparison, because the genocide was so unique and uniquely disgusting that nothing really compares. consider the fact that even freakin teachers, preachers, nurses and goddamn human right activists took part in the genocide, not passively but via machete. it's really hard to believe that human beings would be capable of such cruelty. I've written a paper on this issue and whenever I think about my source material I get the creeps. you're right thought that the signs are very similiar, and very telling..

 

[Phrossack]

when you can read about "the day of the rope", the upcoming "race war" and similiar things every freakin day on alt-right echochambers I'm actually glad that the left has some semblance of executive branch as well, otherwise these power fantasies, which have often ended in mass murder (see synagogue shooting and other incidents) can manifest much more easily. alt-right bashing is nice and fun, but there are genuinely people out there who are only waiting to draw their weapon, and that's scary as hell.



rwanda is kind of a difficult comparison, because the genocide was so unique and uniquely disgusting that nothing really compares. consider the fact that even freakin teachers, preachers, nurses and goddamn human right activists took part in the genocide, not passively but via machete. it's really hard to believe that human beings would be capable of such cruelty. I've written a paper on this issue and whenever I think about my source material I get the creeps. you're right thought that the signs are very similiar, and very telling..

Oh, I know about Rwanda. It just goes to show that most people, like werewolves, can morph into murderous monsters very easily if given a little nudge.

I know many conservatives, and though they can be nice in person I have little doubt many would either take up arms or watch others do so approvingly if a "tall trees" order went out. I'm sure many Rwandans were butchered by those who a week before had been neighbors, or the teachers of their children, or the nice shopkeepers who sold them groceries.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The right spends a lot more time and energy obsessing over statues erected to threaten the black population than they do denouncing torch-marchers and armed militia groups with openly racist and violent ideology. If that wasn't disgusting enough, half of their arguments in favor of racist monuments boils down to: But you're the real racist, as they leer and jeer at the other side and dare us to 'provoke' more violence. They have, after all, run over people and shot up churches in defense of racist statues but pin the blame for those things on the victims themselves.