Apocalypse Now

[RRRaskolnikov]

Hi team ,

Rolo made great progress yesterday indeed ... he even made short work of the egyptian GS ... general Diamondeye (previous ruler of the glorious japanese army) must be pleased

@Shyuhe: all good points! especially the need to focus our EP points... stealing Literature could be nice if Ramses doesn't give in our demands... Researching feudalism: perhaps DG will agree to trade for it if we spend some beakers on it... or perhaps we do not want to do that before killing him (btw, I think it would be best to vassalize him and not bother with all his islands)?
Specialisation of cities: I agree with most, but you didn't mention a city for specialists... even if we don't bulb anymore, golden ages could come in handy later... I would run some in Nidaros or Satsuma (preferably this city if we move the palace). Memphis has the Glib, but destroying its cottages woulb be really painfull...

Finally on civics: what do we do: we can switch to CS or wait for vassalage... As we didn't plan on a bureau cap (and are likely to move the palace anyway), I would go with the later...

Comments welcome!

Roster duty:

Raskolnikov: contemplative...
Paulus: pleased by the use of the mighty slaved elephants...
DE: Enjoying life in the captured shrine of Thebes, glad that this is not Fox 60...
Rolo: Master of Egypt...
Pigswill: the new shogun... is up!
Shyuhe: on deck, fixing the economy...

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[shyuhe]

I thought about it and we can just build the FP in Thebes instead. That should deal with the maintenance issues. Although it'll have to come after market/grocer/bank. It will also save hammers on the capital. If we don't move the capital, I don't think bureaucracy is useful as Kyoto is only a hammer city right now. So vassalage to save on troop costs (and extra promos) may be a good idea.

Good point about the GP farm. None of our cities are really great GP farms except Osaka, which is also an excellent production city.

We should definitely not kill DG. His islands are useless to us and better as trade route fodder. I think once Thebes comes out of revolt and we build infra for 1-2 rounds, we should be ready for war prep again.

We don't have to bulldoze the cottages near Memphis. They overlap with the other cities in the area so just have them work the tiles instead. Memphis is going to suck until we clear up the Egyptian culture anyways. Maybe we should run Memphis as a GP farm? It already has 2 GS from the GL...

The 44 turn whip anger is probably from 3-4 whips stacked up. Our magical elephant army had to come from somewhere...

 

[r_rolo1]

Just for a comment for next player:

Do not cancel the budha buildings that are being done in the east. The AP hammers are very handy.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Good point about building the FP in Thebes Shyuhe... we need to remember to not build anymore national wonders to keep room for Wall Street in this city

On the GPfarm: Memphis will probably pop our next GP anyway as no other cities have specialists right now... perhaps I was not clear, but I do agree to let the developped cottages around Memphis I was thinking Satsuma because this city has only 2 grass mines to work after its sugar plantations (otherwise only sea tiles) so that could be a nice place to run some specialists. Agreed on the awesomeness of Osaka, this city can do everything (we should put some troops here to make it grow as fast as possible)...

Other stuff for next player (Pigswill): try to station enough troops in Thebes so it doesn't revolt (though I suspect Memphus will have more problem now with the new city distribution)...

Cheers

 

[shyuhe]

A market in Thebes is worth more than the FP.

If we steal or trade for literature (not worth teching), where are we going to put the NE and HE? Satsuma can work as a GP farm but we should build more farms for it in that case. And it should get the NE after the Buddhist buildings.

HE, the candidates are Kyoto, Osaka, and Nidaros in terms of production. Kyoto already has a settled GG so it may be the best spot for the HE. Unfortunately it's far from the front line

Thebes is beyond the Egyptian culture borders. I would worry more about Memphis revolting.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

gold multiplier before the FP in Thebes ofc
My vote for the HE is Kyoto... Osaka has already quite a lot of cottages so I would rather workshoped the capital. NE either Satsuma or Nidaros... the elected one would definately received farms ...
I agree with you with Memphis...

 

[PaulusIII]

Satsuma would indeed be our best bet for the NE. I prefer Nidaros for the HE, with copper, horses and plenty of food that should do nicely. Now it's time to start cottaging the hell out of the rest of our lands so we can have... something that looks like an economy. I suppose De Gaulle is the next on our hitlist? Still trade Feudalism from him, though. If he fields maces our samurai will kick their sorry asses anyway.

This is what I hate about monoreligious happy continents. No wars, rapid tech pace and tradewhores. At least we have the shrine of the monoreligious happy continent

And nice to post that conversation here, it gave me a good laugh at times

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

And nice to post that conversation here, it gave me a good laugh at times

I am even worse in english on msn!
Seriously though, I agree with most of your points, particularly the annoyance of a mono religion continent
That makes 2 votes for HE in Kyoto, 1 for Nidaros.
About the NE, do we agree on Satsuma? Please everyone give your opinion so we can move on other things (hitting De Gaulle )...

Cheers

 

[Diamondeye]

I have no idea about NE (and probably shouldn't be trusted with anything considering GPs), but I think HE belongs in Kyoto!

And De Gaulle belongs fifteen feet beneath the ground!

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Pigswill, are you around?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

@Shyuhe: I have PMed Pigswill, but it seems he isn't around right now... So if he doesn't speak today, feel free to take the save

 

[shyuhe]

ok sure. 987

 

[shyuhe]

Not much action.

Turn 235 - I re-assign EP to Ramesses. It'll come in handy... eventually.

Turn 236 - I trade CS for feudalism with DG. I then swap to vassalage. It'll give free upkeep for 12 units and we're paying 13 gold right now. Bureaucracy will give us 13 extra commerce in a capital that has no commerce multipliers

Turn 237 - Thebes comes out of revolt. Our economy goes up to ~40%

Turn 240 - Joao circumnavigates. Not that it matters on this type of map.

Turn 247 - Joao gets liberalism. I think he took astronomy but I'm not certain.

Turn 251 - Wang comes with a demand:

I refuse as I didn't feel it was worth the anarchy. He's small anyways.

Turn 252 - AC builds Taj. Ugh.

Turn 253 - We finish researching guilds. Yay self-research! It actually has value on the market:

DG also comes with a demand:

I give it to him as it doesn't really matter.

Ram is still trying to win the game:

He doesn't have nearly enough votes to win though, especially now that all of our cities are Buddhist.

Joao is close to finishing guilds. He'll only give 200 gold for it. AC will give us engineering + gold. Ram will give us techs but he has no gold. DG is our target and doesn't really have much to offer anyways. So I think we should trade with AC for engineering + gold. Then trade with Ram for paper + lit (or some other combination). Then sell it to Joao for what little gold he'll give us.

I've finished a good chunk of the Buddha infrastructure. Kyoto can start gearing for war again as it has the Buddha buildings + a forge. Thebes should start on the grocer once it finishes its granary. Nidaros can start building troops soon as well.

The commerce cities should concentrate on commerce for the time being. I've sign spammed so that we can get some consistency going. Feel free to erase them if they're annoying. We can't build the FP yet as Thebes doesn't have a courthouse (and won't get one any time soon).

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Looking good Shyuhe...

We should do the trades you proposed ... what to research after that? Gunpowder/nationalism are nice to war , but I see Ramses has liberalism... the culture problems will increase yet again in the east front...
If we think DG can be dealed with only medieval troops, perhaps going to lib is worth it (oxford, FS).

Obviously, the short plan is to vassalized DG (taking all his inland posssessions).

I am not around this week end, so Paulus, if you can play (swapping with me), be my guest ... if we need more discussion, we can wait for next week to continue (I think it isn't needed, Shyuhe has made great progress and we all know the plan anyway)...

Cheers

 

[PaulusIII]

I'll take the swap. Got the save

 

[PaulusIII]

Shyuhe, why did you give in to De Gaulle? Since we're going to war anyway I'd prefer him to take the diplo hit with the rest of the world... I'd have responded along the lines of 'go ahead, make my day'

Raskolnikov, vassaling De Gaulle seems like a bad idea to me. He would be utterly useless for teching, screw up our diplomacy, and those offshore cities are still profitable with the Great Lighthouse in Paris. I say we bury him but it's a team vote.

Other than that... gentlemen, we are now in WHEOOHRN.

 

[shyuhe]

I would go gunpowder. Muskets normally suck, but any gunpowder unit with Toku is a lot better. C1, CG1, Drill 1!!! Tack on 2 promos and you have some nasty units. We should eventually be able to trade for nationalism via gunpowder if we put some beakers in.

DG has stone and engineering so expect lots of castles. I'd bring lots of siege.

 

[shyuhe]

Shyuhe, why did you give in to De Gaulle? Since we're going to war anyway I'd prefer him to take the diplo hit with the rest of the world... I'd have responded along the lines of 'go ahead, make my day'

Raskolnikov, vassaling De Gaulle seems like a bad idea to me. He would be utterly useless for teching, screw up our diplomacy, and those offshore cities are still profitable with the Great Lighthouse in Paris. I say we bury him but it's a team vote.

Other than that... gentlemen, we are now in WHEOOHRN.

Giving him cows for 10 turns doesn't hurt us. Refusing just gives us an unnecesasry diplo negative, which may hurt if we end up vassalizing him. He doesn't get a diplo hit against the rest of the world for making demands on us. Or were you expecting a dow? I doubt he would have declared for refusing to give him cows

I think vassalizing him is fine, if we can keep him Buddhist. And we can make demands on him to swap his religion. Plus we won't need boats that way. Foreign trade routes are worth more than domestic trade routes - that's why I'd like to vassal him rather than kill him.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Plus we won't need boats that way. Foreign trade routes are worth more than domestic trade routes - that's why I'd like to vassal him rather than kill him.

Hi, I could find a connexion finally Yeah, my idea was that boats are not worth building for those cities, and foreign TR (if DG is our vassal) are better than internal ones anyway, jus like Shyuhe said...

WHEOOHRN? Cool

 

[PaulusIII]

By now I fear that this SG might give me Fox-style notoriety. I already have one turnset where I've taken some flak for whipping too much... but then follows a turnset like this, where after some rest for the people the usual 's for 'We cannot forget your cruel oppression!' are back. Yes, I broke out the whip again to get us some samurai and trebuchets.

I know why, though. I get the war preparation turnsets in this SG.

Nevertheless... we start out by trading. We trade, as discussed:
Guilds <-> Engineering + cash (AC)
Guilds <-> Literature & Paper (Ramesses)
Guilds <-> cash (Joao)

Spoiler :

+ later

nothing <-> 100 gold (Ramesses)

I might've misjudged Ramesses. I thought of him as a nasty jerk because of that culture bomb in Giza, but when I kindly asked him to part with 100 gold, he decided to help us, the sucker. He was the only one that wanted to help us out, too; I asked everybody except De Gaulle for handouts. I know it's a bit much asking Joao for charity but I still tried.

That cash we're hoarding is to be spent on some axe -> samurai upgrades. IIRC they still get their free drill promo if we upgrade them and I'd like some CR3 samurai for our upcoming war. A large part of the army (the part of it that's not under way from Kyoto) is still at Memphis to try and keep them from revolting. Emphasis on trying; it didn't stop them.

Spoiler :

Ramesses also tried religious diplo victory for the umpteenth time. And, as usual, failure was the only option for him.

Spoiler :

The HE is up in Kyoto. I've finished some infra builds in the east, then changed to full military buildup in every city with a barracks. We have a lot of samurai and trebs ready to go.

The next turnset, Gunpowder will be in and we are likely ready to declare by then. Dammit, Raskolnikov, now I miss out on the real fun