The shogun strikes back!

[RRRaskolnikov]

Go on Sweetacshon, I just wanted to have a look but I have not much to add... I would have prefer to not build the Taj in the HE city, but I realize that me butchering Kyoto mines probably forced DE to make that...
Something to think about: we still haven't start the NE! As always, it's not a big deal now, but it could have helped... Izumo is probably the best city for that.
Finally, the farm near Nara should be replaced asap, as the irrigation chain to the west is cut.

Cheers

edit: I am OK with a chemistry bulb, but we should wait to be researching it to make it so we get more beakers (unless we lost cities in between ). Remember to stop trading marble to Pericles...

 

[PaulusIII]

Yeah, do trade for PP. If anything it'll help our economy as well.

 

[Sweetacshon]

After trading for printing press, bulbing three quarters of chemistry, cancelling the marble (although we lost the Taj Mahal), and the odds and ends of micro management and workers, this turn set was mainly concerned with the conquest of Prague. By the time of our stack reached the walls, Charlemagne had a formidable mixed stack in defence, and this meant that I couldn't blitz in with trebuchets without first bombarding, and by that time he had an even larger stack. By the time the walls were down, I knew there was no hope, so I instituted my standard policy of sitting back and waiting for the AI to be an idiot. As soon as I retreated to the hill north of Prague, half the garrison moved towards Tlax, where there were only a few long bow in defence. This may have been scary, apart from the fact that they were about 10 muskets and pikes streaming towards the front, and in the end these held without loss. Meanwhile, the stack moved back to Prague and conquered at with fairly heavy losses. Even so, looking around the HRE territory, he shouldn't have much left.

Our economy is in the toilet, and we will be limping towards rifling. There are three turns left on replaceable parts, three on chemistry, and then onto rifling. I'm wondering if we don't need to be in C. S., but maybe we can get by on the specialists we have. The draft was used a fair bit in the North, and we should probably let them regrow a bit, so we have some resources for rifling. I sign posted a few cities I think we should keep, and the tech path is to rifling, so it seems straightforward. The devil is in the detail, of course

 

[Sweetacshon]

Spoiler the log. Sorry it's a bit long. :

Turn 313/750 (1465 AD) [24-Mar-2009 14:56:09]
Tech traded to Pericles (Greece): Economics
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Printing Press
Research begun: Replaceable Parts (10 Turns)
Sweetacshon: Trade econ for PP, WM, and a handfull of gold with Pericles, as well as replacing marble with cow for 4gpt.
Sweetacshon: There's so much left to build, and a stint in OR migjht have been nice. For example, it would've been good to have theatres and GT in for a drafting city, and unis for Oxford.
Sweetacshon: I'd like to build the NE in Izumo, but it needs a library first.
Sweetacshon: Some workers rerouted to the Nara farm.
Kyoto begins: Musketman (3 turns)
Kyoto begins: Pikeman (4 turns)
Kyoto begins: Trebuchet (5 turns)
Osaka begins: Trebuchet (4 turns)
Osaka begins: Pikeman (3 turns)
Tokyo begins: Caravel (6 turns)
Tokyo begins: Caravel (6 turns)
Tokyo begins: Work Boat (3 turns)
Tokyo begins: Settler (8 turns)
Tokyo begins: Caravel (6 turns)
Tokyo begins: Work Boat (3 turns)
Satsuma begins: Trebuchet (4 turns)
Satsuma begins: Pikeman (3 turns)
Izumo begins: Work Boat (2 turns)
Izumo begins: Pikeman (3 turns)
Izumo begins: Library (19 turns)

After End Turn:
Osaka finishes: Musketman
Izumo grows to size 7
Teotihuacan finishes: Musketman
Tenochtitlan grows to size 11
Tlatelolco's borders expand
Xochicalco's borders expand
Xochicalco finishes: Longbowman
Golden Age ends

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Pisa, Musketman loses to Holy Roman Knight (6.80/10) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)
A Cottage was built near Tlatelolco
A Hamlet near Tlatelolco was destroyed by Holy Roman Knight
Attitude Change: Gilgamesh (Sumeria) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'
Civics Change: Pericles(Greece) from 'Decentralization' to 'Free Market'

Turn 314/750 (1470 AD) [24-Mar-2009 15:22:20]
Teotihuacan begins: Pikeman (8 turns)
Xochicalco begins: Trebuchet (40 turns)
Sweetacshon: Things are spread a bit thin up north, so the first draft post-GA is up there. A musket that was left to hang is killed, and we start getting pillaged. The SoD in the south moves in regardless.

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Hurrian
A Musketman was drafted in Tlatelolco
Osaka grows to size 12
A Village was built near Hurrian
Xochicalco grows to size 7

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Gilgamesh (Sumeria) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 315/750 (1475 AD) [24-Mar-2009 15:33:44]
While attacking in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, Musketman (6.84/9) defeats Holy Roman Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
A Mine was built near Kyoto
A Farm was built near Kyoto

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Tenochtitlan
A Musketman was drafted in Texcoco
Kyoto grows to size 19
Satsuma grows to size 15
Nagoya grows to size 12
Teotihuacan grows to size 8
Tenochtitlan finishes: Pikeman
Texcoco finishes: Longbowman
Calixtlahuaca grows to size 9
Calixtlahuaca finishes: Musketman

Other Player Actions:
A Mine was destroyed near Tlatelolco
A Mine near Tlatelolco was destroyed by Holy Roman Cuirassier
State Religion Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) from 'Buddhism' to 'Christianity'
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Shaka (Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'
Attitude Change: Charlemagne (Holy Rome) towards Ramesses II (Egypt), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'

Turn 316/750 (1480 AD) [24-Mar-2009 15:39:51]
Tenochtitlan begins: Forbidden Palace (20 turns)
Texcoco begins: Pikeman (10 turns)
Calixtlahuaca begins: Pikeman (13 turns)
While attacking in Japanese territory near Pisa, Musketman loses to Holy Roman Cuirassier (4.32/12) (Prob Victory: 10.9%)
Musketman promoted: Drill II
While attacking in Japanese territory at Tlatelolco, Musketman (9.00/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 99.2%)
A Farm was built near Nara
A Fort was built near Nara
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider II
Sweetacshon: More drafting, and not much else to tell. Bombard Prague and wait for the forlorn hope muskets to turn up. The econ is in the toilet since the stack moved out, at a small negative at 20%. We need some for conquest research.

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Satsuma
A Musketman was drafted in Nara
Kyoto finishes: Musketman
A Town was built near Kyoto
Satsuma finishes: Musketman
A Hamlet was built near Nara
Izumo finishes: Pikeman
Tlatelolco finishes: Musketman

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, War Elephant loses to Holy Roman Cuirassier (5.16/12) (Prob Victory: 34.1%)

Turn 317/750 (1485 AD) [24-Mar-2009 15:48:01]
Diplomacy: Gilgamesh (Sumeria) offers to trade World Map to Toku (Japan) for World Map
Diplomacy: Toku (Japan) accepts trade of World Map to Gilgamesh (Sumeria) for World Map
Tlatelolco begins: Pikeman (6 turns)
A Mine was built near Kyoto
A Farm was built near Tlaxcala
While attacking in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, Musketman loses to Holy Roman Cuirassier (0.60/12) (Prob Victory: 91.8%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (9.00/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Musketman promoted: Guerilla I

After End Turn:
Whip anger has decreased in Izumo
Osaka finishes: Trebuchet

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Samurai 3 (Kagoshima) (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Samurai 3 (Kagoshima) (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Samurai 3 (Kagoshima) (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Samurai 3 (Kagoshima) (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Samurai 3 (Kagoshima) (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.4%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, War Elephant loses to Holy Roman Cuirassier (5.16/12) (Prob Victory: 29.9%)
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Pericles (Greece), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'

Turn 318/750 (1490 AD) [24-Mar-2009 15:53:08]
A Mine was built near Kyoto
A Farm was built near Kagoshima
While attacking in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, Musketman (9.00/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 90.1%)
Sweetacshon: There goes the Taj. At least we get a bit of much need cash. Some other bad news as well.

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Teotihuacan
A Musketman was drafted in Xochicalco
Tokyo finishes: Colosseum
Kagoshima finishes: Musketman
Teotihuacan grows to size 8
Tenochtitlan grows to size 11

Turn 319/750 (1495 AD) [24-Mar-2009 16:04:24]
Kagoshima begins: Trebuchet (2 turns)
A Mine was built near Nagoya
Pikeman 1 (Tenochtitlan) (Pikeman) promoted: Combat II
Pikeman 1 (Tenochtitlan) (Pikeman) promoted: Formation
Musketman 6 (Tlatelolco) (Musketman) promoted: Drill II
Musketman 3 (Calixtlahuaca) (Musketman) promoted: Combat II
Musketman promoted: Drill III
Musketman 2 (Teotihuacan) (Musketman) promoted: Combat II

After End Turn:
Nara grows to size 11
Izumo finishes: Work Boat
A Village was built near Teotihuacan
A Village was built near Hurrian

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Shaka (Zululand) towards Charlemagne (Holy Rome), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 320/750 (1500 AD) [24-Mar-2009 16:32:04]
A Fishing Boats was built near Izumo

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Satsuma
A Musketman was drafted in Teotihuacan
Osaka finishes: Pikeman
Tokyo grows to size 15
Satsuma grows to size 14
Kagoshima finishes: Trebuchet
Izumo grows to size 8
Xochicalco grows to size 7

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Tlaxcala, Pikeman 2 (Izumo) (1.20/6) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 34.8%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory near Augsburg, Pikeman 2 (Izumo) loses to Holy Roman War Elephant (8.00/8) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)

Turn 321/750 (1505 AD) [24-Mar-2009 16:36:38]
Osaka begins: Trebuchet (5 turns)
Kagoshima begins: Caravel (2 turns)
A Mine near Pisa was destroyed by Japanese Musketman
A Road near Pisa was destroyed by Japanese Musketman 2 (Teotihuacan) (Musketman)
Musketman 5 (Satsuma) (Musketman) promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, Musketman (1.08/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 26.8%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, Musketman 5 (Satsuma) (7.29/9) defeats Holy Roman Musketman (Prob Victory: 61.6%)

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Teotihuacan
A Musketman was drafted in Tlatelolco
Kyoto finishes: Pikeman
Satsuma finishes: Trebuchet
Kagoshima finishes: Caravel
Teotihuacan grows to size 7
Teotihuacan finishes: Pikeman
Hurrian finishes: Musketman
Calixtlahuaca grows to size 10
Tlaxcala's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Holy Roman territory near Vienna, Musketman 5 (Satsuma) (0.45/9) defeats Holy Roman Maceman (Prob Victory: 47.5%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Tlaxcala, Musketman loses to Holy Roman Maceman (8.00/8) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)
While defending in Holy Roman territory at Tlaxcala, Musketman 5 (Satsuma) loses to Holy Roman Maceman (8.00/8) (Prob Victory: 0.0%)
Attitude Change: Charlemagne (Holy Rome) towards Shaka (Zululand), from 'Annoyed' to 'Furious'

Turn 322/750 (1510 AD) [24-Mar-2009 16:40:14]
Kagoshima begins: Trebuchet (2 turns)
Teotihuacan begins: Trebuchet (10 turns)
Hurrian begins: Pikeman (10 turns)
Sweetacshon: I notice that there's no way to take Prague, so move up to the hill at the north. A HRE stack moves out to Tlax, so I move it straight back in to try to benefit.

Musketman 4 (Kyoto) (Musketman) promoted: City Garrison II
Trebuchet promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Trebuchet loses to Holy Roman Longbowman (6.00/6) (Prob Victory: 2.6%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Trebuchet loses to Holy Roman Longbowman (3.30/6) (Prob Victory: 9.1%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Trebuchet loses to Holy Roman Longbowman (4.56/6) (Prob Victory: 19.4%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Trebuchet loses to Holy Roman Longbowman (2.64/6) (Prob Victory: 41.6%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Trebuchet loses to Holy Roman Cuirassier (5.52/12) (Prob Victory: 27.3%)
While attacking, Trebuchet decimates Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 33.8%)
While attacking, Trebuchet decimates Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 33.6%)
While attacking, Trebuchet 3 (Osaka) (Trebuchet) decimates Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 11.2%)
Musketman promoted: Combat II
Musketman promoted: Combat II
Musketman 1 (Osaka) (Musketman) promoted: Combat II
Musketman promoted: Combat III
Musketman 1 (Osaka) (Musketman) promoted: Combat III
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (7.29/9) defeats Holy Roman Longbowman (Prob Victory: 92.3%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (5.76/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 87.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (0.90/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 88.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (5.58/9) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 96.2%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman loses to Holy Roman Maceman (1.28/8) (Prob Victory: 89.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (2.88/9) defeats Holy Roman Maceman (Prob Victory: 83.3%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (7.38/9) defeats Holy Roman Longbowman (Prob Victory: 96.9%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (7.65/9) defeats Holy Roman Landsknecht (Prob Victory: 98.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman 1 (Osaka) (6.30/9) defeats Holy Roman Landsknecht (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (7.65/9) defeats Holy Roman Landsknecht (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Musketman (7.74/9) defeats Holy Roman Catapult (Prob Victory: 99.3%)
Samurai 3 (Kagoshima) (Samurai) promoted: Combat II
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Axeman (2.00/5) defeats Holy Roman Landsknecht (Prob Victory: 99.5%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, War Elephant (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, War Elephant (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, War Elephant (6.88/8) defeats Holy Roman Cuirassier (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in Holy Roman territory at Prague, Samurai (8.00/8) defeats Holy Roman Maceman (Prob Victory: 99.9%)
Buddhism has spread: Prague
Captured Prague (Charlemagne)
Prague begins: Theatre (76 turns)
Sweetacshon: ...and it works. Now we just have to hold the cities.

After End Turn:
A Musketman was drafted in Calixtlahuaca
A Musketman was drafted in Xochicalco
A Town was built near Nara
Tlatelolco finishes: Pikeman

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Japanese territory at Tlaxcala, Longbowman (2.88/6) defeats Holy Roman Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 98.6%)
While defending in Japanese territory at Tlaxcala, Longbowman (3.12/6) defeats Holy Roman Trebuchet (Prob Victory: 81.4%)
While defending in Japanese territory at Tlaxcala, Musketman 4 (Kyoto) (5.58/9) defeats Holy Roman War Elephant (Prob Victory: 84.5%)
While defending in Japanese territory at Tlaxcala, Longbowman (1.68/6) defeats Holy Roman Landsknecht (Prob Victory: 97.0%)

 

[PaulusIII]

Good turns, we're gaining ground on Charlie and Ramesses probably won't join in again (why did he switch to Christianity... ). Unfortunately there's no way to acquire Rifling easily

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Nicely done Sweetacshon

Good catch about the Globe and Oxford, we have been sloppy with those... So we still lack 4 unis to enable Oxford, all theaters for the Globe, and we can start the NE next turn in Izumo. Seeing as rifling could not be enough ( 2 AIs already have RP so we are not even sure to be first there), I suggest we focus a little on having those up asap .

I am not sure why there are troops but no sieges near Pisa though...
We should use spies! we have more than 2000 EPs on Charly, let makes good use of them (city revolts)...

I think we want Aachen, Pisa, and Vienna at least before taking peace, but Charly is now fielding cuirrassiers...
Thoughts?

There have been quite a lot of rotations, but here is an updated roster:

Rolo -> up!
Shyuhe -> on deck!
Paulus, Ras, DE, Sweetacshon -> crying in front of the greek Taj Mahal...

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[Sweetacshon]

Good catch about the Globe and Oxford, we have been sloppy with those... So we still lack 4 unis to enable Oxford, all theaters for the Globe, and we can start the NE next turn in Izumo. Seeing as rifling could not be enough ( 2 AIs already have RP so we are not even sure to be first there), I suggest we focus a little on having those up asap . I did start a couple, but wasn't comfortable doing a concerted effort with Charlie being so strong. Note that we could also use banks in places.

I am not sure why there are troops but no sieges near Pisa though...
We should use spies! we have more than 2000 EPs on Charly, let makes good use of them (city revolts)... Yep, they are pillaging and fencing off Pisa (iirc) and had come from defending up north. Spies... yep absolutely, I should have built some. Also it might be time to switch EP spending to someone else.

I think we want Aachen, Pisa, and Vienna at least before taking peace, but Charly is now fielding cuirrassiers...
Thoughts?

These are the reason everything is taking so long. Drafted cannon fodder seems the only reliable way to take them out.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

These are the reason everything is taking so long. Drafted cannon fodder seems the only reliable way to take them out.

Saboting (with spies) his horses is another Need to check out how many resources he has though...

edit: I am not sure we should switch of target for espionnage already. There are 3 cities to revolt, and some techs we could steal from him (I didn't check the numbers to see if it is feasible though)...

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, got it.....

 

[Diamondeye]

"I'm not crying!"

(quoting FF VII: Advent Children )

 

[r_rolo1]

Ok, I finally got time to look at the save ( will try to play it today, but I wouldn't bet much on finishing the set today, with so much blood and guts around in game )....

This stroke me as a good idea:

Spoiler :

At least it would provide a 2nd front.... and, as always, shaka price is quite cheap

So, do we call mr 2425236346 vassals to our fray?

 

[Sweetacshon]

That would have been nice before I took on the HRE SoD . Now, tho... well we still have 3 cities to gain, but we don't want to give Shaka too much fuel. As long as we have something to bribe him to stop again, I'm all for it.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Agreed I would not trade PP and RP (rifling path) to Shaka but economics seems OK.
Good luck Rolo

edit: I have not checked but Shaka is not 45 times more powerfull than Charly right? (which would be a case where bribing him would be bad)

 

[r_rolo1]

We don't have intel on Shaka power.

 

[Diamondeye]

We don't have intel on Shaka power.

This is normally the same as saying "Houston, we have a problem", or something similar catastrophic...

 

[r_rolo1]

This is normally the same as saying "Houston, we have a problem", or something similar catastrophic...

In fact there was no reason to fear shaka.... but I'm in a hurry now and can't make a full report, so I'll just drop the save.

Stay tuned for the complete episode in a few hours

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Stay tuned for the complete episode in a few hours

Can't wait the report as the job looks well done But the irrigation chain leading to Izumo needs to be fixed again ... I guess this city will get its NE in the third Toku game
More comments after the report

Cheers,
Ras

 

[shyuhe]

Nice warring rolo The question is - do we cap or not?

 

[r_rolo1]

First, a rant:

1- Please, pleaseeeee, don't put workers automated during wars, even for trade networks. I lost a good handful of them before noticing that there where mounted units picking them near the borders.

2- Do not fortify GP. I only noticed Mr Sun Tzu when I zoomed out to the world view to make a nice empire pic

Now in game:

First of all, a riddle: What does a cuirasser have in common with a landknetch?

No awnsers?

OK, a small help:

Spoiler :

......

Still no awnsers?

Ok, better say it.....

Spoiler :

Both units were the ones that were giving us troubles and both units need iron. That would influence a lot the way the campaign was directed.

Like I said before, Shaka is itching for a war.... so let's persuade him :

Spoiler :

Charlie, seeing this, decides to play the same game and bribes Ramesses vs ....

Spoiler :

Shaka

And this is what I like about shaka ( and Monty ): they take all their wars seriously and bring always something to the fight, even if it is hopelessly outdated stuff. Shaka really putted some effort:

Spoiler :

And he really took the city ....

We , OTOH, directed our efforts against Augsburg, the city with the only iron source and obviously took it. The effect was dramatic: Charlie started spamming maces and HA ( a LOT of HA .... for a moment I thinked I was seeing the land version of the caravel spam ), both far easier to handle thant cuiraseers and landknetch.

BTW, AP vote:

Spoiler :

Because of a cruel irony of the destiny, we weren't candidates to the AP because I took this city a turn too late:

Spoiler :

I just love when the AI starts building Jails in besieged cities. Makes things so easy......

Shaka wasn't doing as well as us:

Spoiler :

Ramesses got to rifling and was pouncing Shaka. Later , a strange game quirk happened: Gilgamesh decided that Shaka was having too much of a beating and decided to rebel. In the same IBT Ramesses and Shaka made peace. So, mr 2/3 God continued warring Ramesses ( until a peace broker appeard ), that I assume it was not his original idea in devassaling Shaka

Anyway, more cities and more techs:

Spoiler :

I decided to stop here... some other intel

Spoiler :

I think we are in great shape in here, in spite of needing a lot of rebuild. By a cruel twist in destiny, it is Rameeses again that stands between us and victory. But this time the AP will not give victory, because of the sour relations he has currently with gilga and Shaka ( Pericles likes him ). IMHO it is obvious that next war after HRE ( I don't see any interest in capping him now ) is against Egypt ( we really need to take control of the AP before that ) and my only doubt is if we zerg rush him with drafted rifles or if we rebuild and finish him with infantry or Arties .

So, how it is going to be?

P.S Save in post # 176 of this thread ( look above, lazy bum )

 

[shyuhe]

If we vassal HRE, we're probably going to have to kill Shaka eventually. So I'd tech constitution for jails and push on. When we take peace with him, he'll probably vassal to Ramesses. Which means we'll encounter residual WW from HRE which we can't get rid of until we kill him.