Really furious!

why don't I take a skip and see if I can get things working--don't want to hold things up --looks like we're cruising along pretty well.

Rusten--can you get this?

Hum yeah, update your game ungy, or let steam do it :). I am OK to let you a couple of days to get it in anycase. Tell us if you manage it. Or I can swap you, I will try to see where Rusten has gone (apparently he wasn't exactly exited by civ5, maybe he changed his mind).

I actually like the Iustus site as well. lumbermills are prolly the best improvement anyway (there isn't the chopping option anymore, as it has so few advantages compared to lumbermills).

@mlinneak: I'll try to get some of my images resized over the week end (if I remember it actually -goldfish-). That's Liquidated who will be happy :lol:

@elistor: SGs are awesome. The community is very relax and cool, and it's a great way to learn from the people you play with.

Cheers

edit: @lurkers: I hope you are using the links I post in the opening post of the thread. I say it because depending of the way you are opening the thread, it's possible you didn't noticed them. Have fun anyway!
 
Hum yeah, update your game ungy, or let steam do it :). I am OK to let you a couple of days to get it in anycase. Tell us if you manage it. Or I can swap you, I will try to see where Rusten has gone (apparently he wasn't exactly exited by civ5, maybe he changed his mind).
sry for the dumb questions, but does steam automatically download the patch? If so, I should have it as I did start up the game a couple of times (to try and open this). Or do I need to do anything to make it happen?
 
Or do I need to do anything to make it happen?

As EP said, start Steam and it should download the pacth automatically, then you can install it. In any case can you read the number of your version? It is the simplest way to know if your install is good. :)
edit: It is under the menu in the main menu screen. Mine is 1.0.0.621.

I have PMed Rusten...

Some comments on the save:

->tech path:

I would divert to currency after math, because markets should be built in every city (no maint). Furthermore I am NOT sold on steel as first the AI is bad as it is, ie we don't need longswords to crush them (even if I loooooove the Darth Vader icon they have :D), as Iustus nicely demonstrated. Second we are using RAs, and I envision us being gifted optics in a not too distant future if we pursue this plan. What do you think?

-> workers: we have another incence to hook once the current improvements near Munich are done. I would add a trading post here and there on non-irigated tiles (as fertilizers are way off, it seems the most logical way to improve the land), the rest can get farms imo (growth is frustrating in this game). The roading path of Iustus looks good.
We should make sure to capture as many workers as we can before finishing AIs also. Normally we shouldn't need to produce or buy one during the whole game.

-> specialist: A GE is due (51/100 pts at 1ppt iirc) in Berlin, is that what we want? (I think a scientist to RUSH steel is a better plan...)

-> war: I agree with kaizer Iustus on finishing Iroquois -> China -> Japan (pupetting everything for now. Once we have some happiness breathing room, we can start annexing the best cities).

Cheers
 
As EP said, start Steam and it should download the pacth automatically, then you can install it.
You don't need to do anything to install either, once the dl is complete, install follows also and then you're good to go.

I would divert to currency after math, because markets should be built in every city (no maint).

Agreed, markets are pure win

Furthermore I am NOT sold on steel as first the AI is bad as it is, ie we don't need longswords to crush them (even if I loooooove the Darth Vader icon they have :D), as Iustus nicely demonstrated. Second we are using RAs, and I envision us being gifted optics in a not too distant future if we pursue this plan. What do you think?

I have learned from TMIT's Let's play (I recommend viewing this, see thread in S&T for link) that RA are biased against picking a tech that has beakers invested in it. I'm all for exploiting this.

-> war: I agree with kaizer Iustus on finishing Iroquois -> China -> Japan (pupetting everything for now. Once we have some happiness breathing room, we can start annexing the best cities).

I don't like annexing, courthouses take a while to build and have high upkeep too. While you're building the CH you suffer lots of unhappy. Raze/rebuild might be better? Settlers aren't cheap either but we save gold at least. Some buildings we want to keep will be lost by razing too ofc.

Edit: I hope we hear from Rusten. I was disappointed by this game too at first, but it's growing on me.
 
I have learned from TMIT's Let's play (I recommend viewing this, see thread in S&T for link) that RA are biased against picking a tech that has beakers invested in it. I'm all for exploiting this.

Well biased means it's not a sure right? What happens if we get the 20% chance optic over the 80% steel? We gather and cry? :lol: I am not rigid though, if the team wants to beeline, we will :goodjob:

I don't like annexing, courthouses take a while to build and have high upkeep too. While you're building the CH you suffer lots of unhappy. Raze/rebuild might be better? Settlers aren't cheap either but we save gold at least. Some buildings we want to keep will be lost by razing too ofc.

That I disagree frankly though: first I don't feel like playing civilization if 80% of my empire is pupets (maybe that's just me though). Then courthouses in mature pupets don't take more than 15 turns. And you can plan ahead and do a bunch of them in GA (like coliseum). Raze/rebuild policy is meh I think (more than in civ4 even): first growth is way too painfull. Then pupets has buildings and build more profitable ones before you annex them (now, with the patch, they spam less military buildings as well, though no more specialists from them). Finally, as most tiles are equal in civ5, I don't see much point in perfect dotmap.
Still I am open to do it if the majority is for it :lol:

Edit: I hope we hear from Rusten. I was disappointed by this game too at first, but it's growing on me.

I guess all vets from civ4 went through this stage :crazyeye: I hope he will help us for this game still :whipped:

Cheers,
Ras
 
As EP said, start Steam and it should download the pacth automatically, then you can install it. In any case can you read the number of your version? It is the simplest way to know if your install is good. :)
edit: It is under the menu in the main menu screen. Mine is 1.0.0.621.

I have PMed Rusten...

-> war: I agree with kaizer Iustus on finishing Iroquois -> China -> Japan (pupetting everything for now. Once we have some happiness breathing room, we can start annexing the best cities).

Cheers

I've also got 1.0.0.621 but I still crash every time so let me skip this and try later

this may be way off base here but a few general comments from my limited civ5 playing --you don't have to finish the AI like previous civs--if the last city is garbage better to leave it.

Also the AI seem to penalize you diplomatically for DOW--I don't know if it's worth a DOW just to grab Beijing. Maybe better to see if Japan can take it then pick it up from them.
 
Well biased means it's not a sure right? What happens if we get the 20% chance optic over the 80% steel? We gather and cry? :lol: I am not rigid though, if the team wants to beeline, we will :goodjob:

It's definately not a guarantee, as I've gotten techs from RA that I was researching. I have no idea what the math is. Thinking about it, it might be useful if there are many small techs that you don't want but can't all get in time. If there is only one small one best to get it done completely.



That I disagree frankly though: first I don't feel like playing civilization if 80% of my empire is pupets (maybe that's just me though). Then courthouses in mature pupets don't take more than 15 turns. And you can plan ahead and do a bunch of them in GA (like coliseum). Raze/rebuild policy is meh I think (more than in civ4 even): first growth is way too painfull. Then pupets has buildings and build more profitable ones before you annex them (now, with the patch, they spam less military buildings as well, though no more specialists from them). Finally, as most tiles are equal in civ5, I don't see much point in perfect dotmap.
Still I am open to do it if the majority is for it :lol:

I'm kind of on the fence on this. I guess my main reason for in favor razing/resettling is that I think the whole concept of a courthouse ending resistance is stupid. Especially because it is also the only building that can't be rushed. Coincidence?:rolleyes:
This was clearly implemented to discourage warmongering and I'm not happy with this.
 
this may be way off base here but a few general comments from my limited civ5 playing --you don't have to finish the AI like previous civs--if the last city is garbage better to leave it.

Also the AI seem to penalize you diplomatically for DOW--I don't know if it's worth a DOW just to grab Beijing. Maybe better to see if Japan can take it then pick it up from them.

Good points. In my current SP game I DoW'ed and whiped out 2 civs early and the remaining two hated me for a long time for warmongering. Then I noticed smth weird. I saved and stopped playing. When I continued later, they never mentioned the warmongering anymore and we got along again (well, until I attacked them at least).
I don't know if it was because I saved or if enough time has passed for them to "forget". We lived peacefully for several thousand years.

If it's because I saved and continued on later it must be a bug. Has anyone had a similar experience?
 
I have learned from TMIT's Let's play (I recommend viewing this, see thread in S&T for link) that RA are biased against picking a tech that has beakers invested in it. I'm all for exploiting this.

This is not 100% certain, because I had 1 turn invested in Metal Casting (1 of 12) and it still picked that over all the 5 turn items that had nothing invested. I think we should just do all the low cost ones to improve our chances, although I suppose we can invest a turn in each of the ones that remain when we get close to turn 120.

I don't like annexing, courthouses take a while to build and have high upkeep too. While you're building the CH you suffer lots of unhappy. Raze/rebuild might be better? Settlers aren't cheap either but we save gold at least. Some buildings we want to keep will be lost by razing too ofc.

I am a big fan of keeping puppet forever. I am not sure people realize how incredibly powerful it is. I played a large continents map, where I only had about 4 cities, and puppet-ed the rest. After winning once, I went back to my save and did not build the utopia project, just to see how far I could take it. My culture output was so high, I was getting a new policy every couple turns, all the way up getting every single one (not just 5 paths, but all of them).

You get full gold and culture output of all the puppet cities, without the social policy cost, and the only downside is you do not get to decide what is built. That is not that big a disadvantage, especially if you put in enough trading posts that the city will more than pay for itself. I actually find that puppet cities are much more efficient, and let your empire grow faster quicker than real cities that you found.

Our rules put us in an ideal situation for that, because we are not even building troops, so the only thing that we can build that puppets will not build are workers and settlers.

Prior to the big patch, puppets would even build wonders (and projects, I had one start building the utopia project after it had built every building it could build), I do not know if they fixed it now that they do not build buildings that consume resources (such as factories). I think puppets no longer build things like barracks, making them even better. Either way, I think puppet cities are great, and I would advise keeping them puppets forever unless there is a very very good reason to change it.

When you have 10 cities with temples and especially the later culture buildings but only 3 or 4 of them count against your social policy cost, you can see how it gives you a net win. All we lose out of doing this is a slight inefficiency of the order the buildings are built, and slightly less gold than if managed directly (although still a lot of net gold per city if we put in enough trading posts, I would convert all mines on puppets to trading posts, unless there is a resource).

We should also get markets soon, so the puppets will start building them, as they tend to build them rather quickly.

-Iustus
 
Well biased means it's not a sure right? What happens if we get the 20% chance optic over the 80% steel?

Agreed, I would suggest getting the cheap techs that are useful, and then if there is not time to get them all, spend a few turns close to turn 120 putting 1 turn each into the remainders, and see what happens.

That I disagree frankly though: first I don't feel like playing civilization if 80% of my empire is pupets (maybe that's just me though). Then courthouses in mature pupets don't take more than 15 turns. And you can plan ahead and do a bunch of them in GA (like coliseum). Raze/rebuild policy is meh I think (more than in civ4 even): first growth is way too painfull. Then pupets has buildings and build more profitable ones before you annex them (now, with the patch, they spam less military buildings as well, though no more specialists from them). Finally, as most tiles are equal in civ5, I don't see much point in perfect dotmap.
Still I am open to do it if the majority is for it :lol:

See my comments above. I think the most effective case is where 80% of the empire is puppets. If we want a sub-optimal strategy for moral/aesthetic reasons, I am ok doing that, but we are slowing our growth. Remember, we have almost nothing to build but buildings, and the puppets will do that for us quite well.

As far as the perfect dotmap, all my CivIV reflexes are wrong for Civ V. What you might think is a bad or marginal spot can turn out to be a decent productive city in Civ V with the right friends (city states) and policies.

-Iustus
 
Good points. In my current SP game I DoW'ed and whiped out 2 civs early and the remaining two hated me for a long time for warmongering. Then I noticed smth weird. I saved and stopped playing. When I continued later, they never mentioned the warmongering anymore and we got along again (well, until I attacked them at least).
I don't know if it was because I saved or if enough time has passed for them to "forget". We lived peacefully for several thousand years.

If it's because I saved and continued on later it must be a bug. Has anyone had a similar experience?

In my opinion, almost no city is marginal, with a maritime city state friend (or 3) and a social policy or three for production and reduced unhappiness, more cities are almost always better, particularly if they are puppets that do not have the social policy cost.

Just about any city can become +gold +culture and net zero unhappiness.

See my comments on the advantages of puppets above.

-Iustus
 
Also the AI seem to penalize you diplomatically for DOW--I don't know if it's worth a DOW just to grab Beijing. Maybe better to see if Japan can take it then pick it up from them.

Do we care about the AI's not liking us? We are going to DOW eventually on all of them. Once we take Japan, our tech and gold will be going so fast I do not think anyone will be able to keep up.

We do not suffer any penalty to city state relations, which is all I care about.

-Iustus
 
Puppets: I basically agree with you Iustus (nice post :thumbsup:), it's just it feels "cheap"... but as it seems I am the only one proposing annexion, we can puppet everything :)

Furthermore EP got me at:

This was clearly implemented to discourage warmongering and I'm not happy with this.

edit:

Roster:

Iustus -> just played
Ungy -> skipped (grab the first save you can open ;))
Rusten -> UP!
Emperor Peter -> on deck
 
Puppets: I basically agree with you Iustus (nice post :thumbsup:)
x2
it's just it feels "cheap"...
Get over it :p:D

As for settling: another point where CivIV beats V imo, it matters a lot less where you settle, you can always get food, all hills are equal, etc.
Makes for less interesting discussion I guess, also no more games with 5 pages of discussion before settling capital I think :lol:
 
Didn't expect me to be up so soon -- would've responded sooner.

I can't play atm, not at home.
 
got it, will post a plan later when I have seen the save again

I won't do a traditional report, but try a video with comments instead. I have just tested Cam Studio on some other game and the result looks pretty good. I was hoping I could do some more tests first (playing and commenting simultaneously is not that simple) but since I am up expectedly, I will learn by trial and error.
 
Our demographics look pretty good, not so good is our below average pop count. That is improving however.

I will:
-Build the new city where the settler is now.

-Puppet the remaining Iroquois cities. Most of our units need to heal, I will let them to avoid losing any.

-Trade one of our Dyes to Oda. He'll make a deal even though he clearly dislikes us.

-Scout Beijing. If it looks like the Japanese will soon take the city, I will let them to spare us a DoW. But I don't want to wait too long either (will see how this goes).

-Research currency. I don't think I'll build markets yet, colosseums are a higher priority.

-Make peace with Oslo asap. CS are our friends.

-Clear some barb camps.

I hope I haven't forgotten anything.

Given that we seem to have some lurkers, I could still post some screenshots if this is desired? Let me know.
 
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