Arabic 101

[Squonk]

مرحباً بكم

اظهروا يا العرب وأمّا الأجانب الّذين يدرسون العربيّة فاظهروا أيضاً وتكلّموا معي في موضوع ما! إنّني أحتاج إلى من يجيب أسئلتي عن اللّغة العربيّة... وأحتاج إلى تدريب لغوي... وأحتاج إلى الصداقة... فتعالوأ, تعالوا...

Hi

Show yourself, oh Arabs. And when it comes to those foreigners who learn Arabic, show yourselves as well and talk to me about some subject! Indeed, I need someone who'd respond to my questions concerning Arabic language... I need language practice... I need friendship. So come, come

 

[jtb1127]

What's a good way to get Arabic symbols?

 

[Squonk]

What do you mean? Usually they are installed with Windows, you just have to add them through control panel - language and regional options.

When it comes to stickers for the keyboard... well, you have to buy them. They cost really little in Syria (50 lira, which is a dollar, a bit more nowdays), and lots in Poland (18 dollars or so). And they are bad, they fade quickly.

 

[Winner]

I never understood how people can read the Arabic script. It's so tiny on my screen that I'd probably fail to read it even if I knew Arabic. It seems so impractical.

 

[NovaKart]

. After awhile I pretty much learned where the keys are without the keyboard but I'm still slow typing in it.

What questions about Arabic do you have? I'm not saying I could answer them, you may know more Arabic than I do, but I'd just be curious to hear about those issues.

One thing I find really tough with Arabic is that there are so many sounds that we don't have in English and therefore a lot of words will sound the same to me.

Also about the script, I sometimes confuse things if the font is small but it's not always that small. Handwriting is really really tough to understand.

 

[warpus]

Arabic doctor handwriting must be a female dog

 

[Squonk]

Well, my questions are varied. Sometimes they're about grammat. For example, if you use, uh, an-nida' (النِّدَاء&#1615, that is calling someone (by ya, ayyuha, ayyatuha and such), and the thing/person you call consists of two word connected by ownership (that is, for example, "oh son of John", then "son" part is in Accusativus (you say ya Ibna Yuhanna, not ya ibnu Yuhanna). But what happens if there are adjectives referring to this son? do you say "ya Ibna Yuhanna al-wasimu", or "ya ibna Yuhanna al-wasima".... (oh handsome son of John). You see, I'm not sure if fatha in "ibn" is really accusativus or just a peculiar form of nominativus. If it's the first thing, than adjectives referring to "son" should be in accusativus as well. If it's the second case, the adjectives should be in nominativus and there's no reason why nominativus in their case should be anything but usual -un/-u.

يَا ابْنَ يُوحَنّا الوَسِيمَ
or
يَا ابْنَ يُوحَنّا الوَسِيمُ

That is high arabic grammar and I don't think an average Arab would know. Bah, I think an average Arab wouldn't know you have to use Accusativus in the "son" part. But perhaps someone knows.

My other questions are easier, it's mostly about if expressions of some kind exist in Arabic. Etc. For example, we call a child "an angel" or "a little angel" in English and Polish... we call it "little Devil" in Polish at least, if it's naughty. But can I call a child "an angel" or "a devil" in Arabic? I don't know.

Google's no good when it comes to arabic. it doesn't really search expressions.

 

[NovaKart]

That is tricky. I tend to ignore these rules and I don't really know most of the Arabic terms for grammar apart from those that have the same names as Turkish, like the word for verb, which incidentally is similar to the word for elephant in both languages فعل , فيل
since in my job I often have to talk about English grammar while speaking Turkish the subject comes up, in Turkish it's Fil and Fiil but I can never remember which one is which and they don't have the ع in Turkish.

Anyway even in modern standard Arabic they don't use most of the case endings. I'd be curious to find out which of the case endings they do use, like if they use those for possessives, I really don't remember. It sounds like you're learning classical Arabic which has the most complicated grammar. The numbers for one thing are much more complicated, like whether you use the male or female form or whether you use the plural form of the noun when combined with certain numbers. Is Polish like Russian in this way? From what I remember, in Russian they also make a distinction between using the singular with some numbers and the plural with others. In Turkish it's just the singular when combined with all numbers and in English it's just the opposite( well besides one of course) so strange.

I don't know about your angel and devil question. Interestingly in Turkey they use the word melek (angel) as a name for girls.

 

[gangleri2001]

I was wondering if the following sentence I wrote is right or not:

لا شك الإله الله اللات زوجة الله​

I meant "There's no doubt that Ilah is Allah and Allat is the wife of Allah". It's basically a spoof of the famous لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله (No god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger). Is my line right?

 

[aronnax]

What's a good way to get Arabic symbols?

Arabic is written in characters. Not symbols.

I never understood how people can read the Arabic script. It's so tiny on my screen that I'd probably fail to read it even if I knew Arabic. It seems so impractical.

Well given that you though Chinese characters were impractical, perhaps you should just realise that other non-Latin script cultures do just fine.

 

[gangleri2001]

Arabic is written in characters. Not symbols.

Wrong. Arabic is written with letters.

Well given that you though Chinese characters were impractical, perhaps you should just realise that other non-Latin script cultures do just fine.

No he won't aronnax. You remember the things he said about Chinese characters in the Chinese characters thread and so you know what kind of stupidities may he end up saying only to avoid acknolwedging that he's making uneducated statements.

 

[aronnax]

Wrong. Arabic is written with letters.

That's what I meant. 'A' is a letter and a character as well. I suppose alphabet is more correct though

No he won't aronnax. You remember the things he said about Chinese characters in the Chinese characters thread and so you know what kind of stupidities may he end up saying only to avoid acknolwedging that he's making uneducated statements.

One can hope can't he?

 

[gangleri2001]

'A' is

...FOR ALLAH!!!


Link to video.

a letter and a character as well. I suppose alphabet is more correct though

Well, since it doesn't represent all the vowels but only some of them, its proper name is abjad.

One can hope can't he?

No you can't. Winner is a loop of making uneducated statements and then pretending that he is trolling you. You know? Winner is like a wild Pokémon, you know what I mean? You're surfing the forums when all of a sudden a wild Winner appears and then he uses his only two attacks, STUPID STATEMENT and PRETEND TO TROLL. Expecting him to change his ways is as stupid as expecting a Pokébattle where Pokéballs aren't used at all. At least everytime he appears you can decide of you're in the mood for a battle or not, just like in the game.

 

[aronnax]

...FOR ALLAH!!!


Link to video.



Well, since it doesn't represent all the vowels but only some of them, its proper name is abjad.

Heehee. That was funny to watch. Like a really happy nursery school teacher.
I do have an Arabic-related question. Is formal Moroccan Arabic intelligible with formal Iraqi Arabic?

No you can't. Winner is a loop of making uneducated statements and then pretending that he is trolling you. You know? Winner is like a wild Pokémon, you know what I mean? You're surfing the forums when all of a sudden a wild Winner appears and then he uses his only two attacks, STUPID STATEMENT and PRETEND TO TROLL. Expecting him to change his ways is as stupid as expecting a Pokébattle where Pokéballs aren't used at all. At least everytime he appears you can decide of you're in the mood for a battle or not, just like in the game.

I get the feeling that you are still a little miffed about his 'Western European Secessionist' comment in the Altered Maps thread.

 

[HannibalBarka]

Well, my questions are varied. Sometimes they're about grammat. For example, if you use, uh, an-nida' (النِّدَاء&#1615, that is calling someone (by ya, ayyuha, ayyatuha and such), and the thing/person you call consists of two word connected by ownership (that is, for example, "oh son of John", then "son" part is in Accusativus (you say ya Ibna Yuhanna, not ya ibnu Yuhanna). But what happens if there are adjectives referring to this son? do you say "ya Ibna Yuhanna al-wasimu", or "ya ibna Yuhanna al-wasima".... (oh handsome son of John). You see, I'm not sure if fatha in "ibn" is really accusativus or just a peculiar form of nominativus. If it's the first thing, than adjectives referring to "son" should be in accusativus as well. If it's the second case, the adjectives should be in nominativus and there's no reason why nominativus in their case should be anything but usual -un/-u.

يَا ابْنَ يُوحَنّا الوَسِيمَ
or
يَا ابْنَ يُوحَنّا الوَسِيمُ

That is high arabic grammar and I don't think an average Arab would know. Bah, I think an average Arab wouldn't know you have to use Accusativus in the "son" part. But perhaps someone knows.

Hello Squonk. I don't really write in arabic that much since i've been living in France. I however am tunisian, grew up in Tunisia and left at 19. SO arabic is my mothertongue, and I was quite good. It allowed me to do theater by the way, as I was able to correctly speak literal arabic naturally.
Hummm. I do not rememebr the grammatical rule, but I tend to intuitevely speak literla arabic correctly. I am sure the right way to say it is يَا ابْنَ يُوحَنّا الوَسِيمُ.

My other questions are easier, it's mostly about if expressions of some kind exist in Arabic. Etc. For example, we call a child "an angel" or "a little angel" in English and Polish... we call it "little Devil" in Polish at least, if it's naughty. But can I call a child "an angel" or "a devil" in Arabic? I don't know.
Google's no good when it comes to arabic. it doesn't really search expressions.

There are many "expressions" in arabic (I wonder if that's not the case in ALL languages as expressions of the kind above are basic comparaison).
In Tunisia and in many arab poem, boys are called chibl (young lion), and girls "razela" (gazelle). We also call kids "Shaitan" (Satan) when they do naughty things.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I wish I could remember more Arabic. Studied it for a year, and now have no use for it so I've forgotten 99% of it. I can still pronounce it when it's written, but I don't know what I'm saying. All I know now is a few phrases and random words.

 

[HannibalBarka]

I was wondering if the following sentence I wrote is right or not:

لا شك الإله الله اللات زوجة الله​

I meant "There's no doubt that Ilah is Allah and Allat is the wife of Allah". It's basically a spoof of the famous لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله (No god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger). Is my line right?

The sentence is quite understandable but I don't think it's quite correct classic arabic and it is not fluid at all. I'd say لا إله إلا الله اللات زوجة الله

 

[HannibalBarka]

I do have an Arabic-related question. Is formal Moroccan Arabic intelligible with formal Iraqi Arabic?

Depend what do you consider as "formal". If it the language spoken in the street, than a Moroccan who would move to Baghdad will have a hard time understandind what Iraqi says. He will understand many words but there will be many "alien" words to him, either because:
1. Iraqi and Moroccon do not use the same word, some time they use 2 different arabic words, some time one (or both) would use a foreign word. Most used foreign words will depend on the envirenment and history of each arabic country. In Tunisia for example, there are tons of "french" or italien words. I supose in Iraq, you'll find many turkish and persian.
2. some time the word is the same but accents are realllllllllllllly different. that happens a lot to me when I talk with other people coming from Maghreb: they use the same words but have weird way of pronoucing them ;-)

Now there are "dialects" that are more easily understandable than others either because they are closer to classic arabic (Jordanian for exmaple) or in the case of Egyptian and Lebanese/Syrian because they sell other arabic countries many "movies" so we're used to them on TV.

 

[kramerfan86]

Despite winner's apparent past comments I think he makes a fair point that Arabic letters are a bit hard to read on a computer screen due to how thin some of them get. Doesnt mean they are inferior or anything, quite beautiful really, but they are a bit difficult to make out in the computer format IMO. I wonder if the font for Arabic letters was automatically set a bit higher than for the alphabet letters if it would help make it a little clearer.

 

[aronnax]

It could just be simply because you are not used to.