As America pulls out from space, China prepares to go to the Moon
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RedRalph
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No, I think people think it's just the thin end of the wedge
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Yup, Pat, just like in the Avatar thread - you simply can't retreat one step, even though you have nothing left to say and you've been proven wrong on all accounts, so now you're inventing a completely imaginary version of what I am saying and what I think.
An escape into one's own imaginary universe - interesting. Moments like these I regret I didn't choose to study psychology.
RedRalphWiggum said:
Well, if he wasn't lost in his fantasies, he'd know I said more than once on this forum that from the scientific point of view, China hasn't accomplished much. Actually, the only space powers which have managed to launch interplanetary probes so far are the US, Europe, Russia and Japan. India and China have only launched probes to the Moon, though their scientific programmes seem to be accelerating.
Patroklos
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The Avatar thread was a complete slaughter for you Winner, for the exact same reasons you have been defeated soundly in this thread. Sometimes its better to just let you froth at the mouth and laugh than interupt you.
You may have said it, but you are empty handed. Please point to the amazing findings of the Chinese that are equal to one of the current marquee US projects, say Hubble for instance.
Which again makes one wonder how you could have made your thread title with a straight face.
Benefactor
Beneficial
TBH, I don't see how Winner is wrong.
Even if you think going to the moon is 99% pointless (and surely no-one thinks its completely pointless), the funding it would take is still relatively insignificant.
Don't you want NASA to build a Moon Base just for the e-peen waving "Oh Winner, why don't you tell us all about the Czech moonbase? Oh wait..."
You know, that sort of nonsense the USA #1 types love
.
Even if you think going to the moon is 99% pointless (and surely no-one thinks its completely pointless), the funding it would take is still relatively insignificant.
Don't you want NASA to build a Moon Base just for the e-peen waving "Oh Winner, why don't you tell us all about the Czech moonbase? Oh wait..."
You know, that sort of nonsense the USA #1 types love
.TBH, I don't see how Winner is wrong.
Even if you think going to the moon is 99% pointless (and surely no-one thinks its completely pointless), the funding it would take is still relatively insignificant.
Don't you want NASA to build a Moon Base just for the e-peen waving "Oh Winner, why don't you tell us all about the Czech moonbase? Oh wait..."
You know, that sort of nonsense the USA #1 types love
Back to "for any given science spending, there's a greater ROI for just about anything other than a moon mission".
Face facts: There is no reason to make a moon base in the foreseeable future. And there is no particular gain to a moon mission now. We know what we need to know. We aren't learning more. We are not going to benefit from the moon in any relationship to the cost. So doing other things makes more sense.
Earth to LEO is something that, many hope, the private sector can learn to do efficiently in the foreseeable future. Including manned to LEO. What NASA is best at is unmanned deep science missions. That's what they should focus on.
Maybe it was said - maybe it wasn't - seeing that there is 8 pages I am guessing it has but I dont feel like reading...sooo....
This crap makes me laugh every time I hear it.
Big deal - we put a man on the moon FORTY YEARS AGO. Now, we have sent crap out to Uranus and have had rovers drive around mars. We have gianormous telescopes looking at the universe forming before our eyes. Now just because China is putting a man on the moon (forty years after the fact) means the US is in decline? To me, it means they're now forty years behind us. (Actually 50 seeing that they are not going expecting to until 2020)
This crap makes me laugh every time I hear it.
Big deal - we put a man on the moon FORTY YEARS AGO. Now, we have sent crap out to Uranus and have had rovers drive around mars. We have gianormous telescopes looking at the universe forming before our eyes. Now just because China is putting a man on the moon (forty years after the fact) means the US is in decline? To me, it means they're now forty years behind us. (Actually 50 seeing that they are not going expecting to until 2020)
Benefactor
Beneficial
Cutlass said:
It depends how long you can wait... Infrastructure on the Moon would eventually give a massive ROI.
So when the tech matures, and we have a practical use for it, go to the moon then. Nothing is gained by going before then.
Patroklos
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Winner
Diverse in Unity
What's the ROI rate for the Large Hadron Collider? Or ITER? Or any other large-scale science project?
Wrong, wrong and wrong again. I'll face the facts once you get them right - so far you've just ignored everything I said about the things we could do on the Moon.
They're pretty focused on that already. Of course, robotic missions to certain places have always been seen as mere precursors of manned missions.
Private sector as it stands today can, in few years, offer humans-to-LEO capability. The (soon to be cancelled) Orion space capsule was supposed to be capable of deep space missions - there is NOTHING under development in the 'private' sector (since when isn't Lockheed-Martin a private firm?) which could replace it. Ergo, cancellation there doesn't make sense. The same goes for heavy-lifting rockets, also being absent from the 'private' sector's menu.
There simply are things that have to be government-coordinated and funded for time to come. What I am pointing to in this thread is, that while the US seems to be backtracking, other space powers, most prominently China, are determined to close the capability gap.
Disgustipated
Deity
have to agree with most everyone else. The moon is a useless piece of rock.
The chinese will do it 50+ years after we did it. How is this any kind of accomplishment?
What I see is fear from some conservatives. Fear that China will be #1. Although I think it's safe to say China already is a superpower and the U.S. is quickly heading towards third world status. Obama's debt will crush any hope the U.S. has of maintaining its superpower status. But that's OK, at least I got my healthcare. Isn't your health more important than a moon rock?
The chinese will do it 50+ years after we did it. How is this any kind of accomplishment?
What I see is fear from some conservatives. Fear that China will be #1. Although I think it's safe to say China already is a superpower and the U.S. is quickly heading towards third world status. Obama's debt will crush any hope the U.S. has of maintaining its superpower status. But that's OK, at least I got my healthcare. Isn't your health more important than a moon rock?
Yared
That Guy
The world has changed. Just because they are going to have their first moon walk within ten years doesn't mean it'll take 50 years for them to reach the level the American space agency is at now.
innonimatu
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What's the ROI rate for the Large Hadron Collider? Or ITER? Or any other large-scale science project?
What you're expecting returns from those two projects? They're huge money pits! I've lost all respect for modern physics, and that comes from knowing people who work at the CERN. The web almost makes up for it, though. Imagine interacting in the Internet with gopher..
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Maybe you should read what I wrote about the Moon and its resources, all potentially extremely valuable, before your chose to agree with people who are basing their opinion on the same misconception.
How is it not? Especially if they stay there and construct a base, which is something you didn't manage to do.
Jesus Christ, save these people because they don't know what they're doing
How about cutting the military budget by 1/3 to mere 400 billion US dollars per annum?
You could use 180 of the 200 billion you saved to boost your healthcare, and give the remaining 20 billion to NASA. That's more than enough to construct extravagant bases on the Moon way ahead of the Chinese. Heck, it's probably enough to put a man on Pluto.
Or are you telling me that if the military doesn't get the 200 billion, the evil terrorists will inevitably destroy America?
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