Ask a Car Nut - Part Deux

[Formaldehyde]

Cars with power steering after it fails are far more difficult to turn than ones without power steering. It really doesn't matter that much whether you are stopped or not, or how strong you are. You are going to be able to discern the difference quite easily because you are fighting the hydraulics instead of them aiding you.

And why wouldn't it be wise to turn the wheels while stopped?

 

[GinandTonic]

Skins the tires. And fails your driving test. Clearly everyone does it though.

 

[Formaldehyde]

What does "skins the tires" mean? And do you have a source that it "fails your driving test"?

It is necessary in many cases when you are entering or leaving a parallel parking spot. I really can't even imagine parallel parking being done while the vehicle is constantly in motion except in unusual circumstances.

 

[GinandTonic]

So I put "turning tires while not in motion" into Google. First response was an American asking yahoo answers why his drivers Ed teacher wouldn't let him turn the wheel with the car stationary. Generally the answers agreed that this would cause more wear but that it wasn't significant.

As to the UK driving test, it really is all about this kind of thing. Its a test of can you drive with no rollback on a hill start, no stationary wheel turning on a parallel park, check your mirrors every five seconds. And all that jazz. Not that they expect people to drive like that, but that if people can do that hopefully when they slack off they still do ok.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Unless you enter a parallel parking spot perfectly, you are going to have to turn the wheel while the car is stopped to properly park the car. If you are parking on a steep incline you are also supposed to turn your wheels so they are not parallel to the curb, which requires turning the wheel while it is stopped. I have never heard of anybody failing a driving test based in this. I was even taught to parallel park by stopping the car at the appropriate moment during my drivers ed training, and I'm certain I did so during my exam.

You can provide no authoritative reference that this actually does cause any additional tire wear? How much black residue do you see in parallel parking spots?

I also question how you can possibly fail the test by not looking in your rear view mirrors every 5 seconds. I think that is definitely excessive, and it is typically only required when you are making a lane change. I can see a person failing if they are fixated at only looking in one direction. But that should require a longer period than that.

 

[Zelig]

You can provide no authoritative reference that this actually does cause any additional tire wear? How much black residue do you see in parallel parking spots?

Quite a lot on the curb from people scraping their tires on it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Well, that's a completely different story. And it is causing damage to the sidewalls which is a very bad thing to do.

 

[GinandTonic]

As I said everyone does this as soon as they pass their test. I only did my test a few years ago and this is what my instructor taught me. I was caring for my much younger coz at the time and he did his test six months later, this is what his instructor taught him. His gf did her test around the same time and her instructor taught her this way too. We had conversations, many conversations, about the absurdity of the hoops we had to jumps through.

If you refuse to believe the Brits are taught to park this way I dont really care.

 

[Formaldehyde]

This still sounds more like urban legend. Here is an explanation for the UK driving test report to teach new instructors how to grade it:

5. Reverse Parking
Control - Poor co-ordination of controls / Scrubbing-brushing the kerb / Unnecessary shunting backwards and forwards / Getting too close to the object car / Mounting the pavement
Turning the steering wheel the wrong way / Parking too far from the kerb / Stalling / Not completing within two car lengths / Finishing at an acute angle to the kerb
Car Park - Poor co-ordination of controls / Ending up straddling two bays / Unnecessary shunting forwards and backwards / Turning the steering wheel the wrong way / Stalling
Observation - No blind spot checks / Relying too much or entirely on the mirrors / Ineffective observation / Looking but not responding to other vehicles or pedestrians / Waiting too long for other users in the car park

12. Control
<snip>
Steering - Unable to maintain a steady course in normal driving / `Swan Neck' turns when turning right / At a normal stop, mounting and dismounting the kerb / Not following the contour of the kerb at a bell mouth junction / Late steering to avoid an obstruction / Failing to correct the steering soon enough after left-right turns / Under and over steering on turns

I see no mention of not turning the wheel while the car is not in motion.

Even if it is considered to be an error, you are allowed 6 "driver errors" before you fail the test.

Driver Errors

The term driver error refers to what is basically a minor error committed by the driver. This could be a missed mirror check, a minor observation fault or a controls fault such as poor use of the hand brake.

The rule of thumb is that these errors are minor in nature and cause no actual or potential danger to any road user.

As above, you must not accumulate more than 6 driver errors during your test.

If you commit the same driver errors, you may find yourself accumulating more errors than you'd like. Worse, if you keep on making the same error throughout the drive, sometimes even only 2 or 3 times, you may just find the SE elevating the matter to a serious error, and you will fail the test.

And regarding the use of mirrors:

14. Use of Mirrors well before
Signaling-Changing direction-Stopping / Not using the exterior mirror's when essential / Using the mirrors but not responding to the information / Not using the mirrors at all / Pulling up with no mirror checks / Increasing speed with no mirror checks / Late use of mirrors

There is no 5 second time limit mentioned.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It turns out your test is far simpler than the US version. You are allowed a distance of twice the length of your own car, while the US version requires you to enter a normal sized space (and regardless of the size of your own vehicle) with cones demarking the rear corners of the front car and another cone demarking the bumper of the rear car. If you strike either cone you fail the test.

Even so, in this video demonstrating the proper maneuver, the instructor turns the wheels while the car is stopped.


Link to video.

 

[Zelig]

My driving test didn't have any parallel parking, it's not a particularly noteworthy skill in rural areas.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Wow. That's a shock on both counts. You lived someplace that doesn't have any parallel parking in the streets of the nearest town?

In the US, parallel parking is considered to be the most difficult part of the driving test. I'm pretty sure it is universal no matter how rural the local area might be.

 

[Zelig]

Well I looked it up, they do have street parking, but I can't honestly recall ever not having a parking lot readily available.

I can't recall with certainty, but I don't think I even had to put my car into reverse during my driving test - I backed into an angled spot before the test started, and then parked facing into the same spot to finish the test.

 

[Formaldehyde]

When I was in high school, it used to be quite easy to find parallel parking spots in downtown St Pete because so many people couldn't manage to successfully park.

 

[timtofly]

Cars with power steering after it fails are far more difficult to turn than ones without power steering. It really doesn't matter that much whether you are stopped or not, or how strong you are. You are going to be able to discern the difference quite easily because you are fighting the hydraulics instead of them aiding you.

And why wouldn't it be wise to turn the wheels while stopped?

I am sure that if you are sitting on asphalt, you really do not want to be turning the wheels back and forth just for the fun of it, even if you do not have power steering. Perhaps nobody forms a habit of doing that, but that reasoning will always be why I personally try not to practice sitting still and turning my wheels at the same time.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Just about anything taken to excess is going to be harmful to a vehicle, much less any other sort of machinery.

But that isn't what we are discussing. Is it?

 

[Zelig]

It's not like tire wear is really "harmful", tires are essentially a consumable. I suppose if you do a ton of parallel parking you might need to replace your tires a week earlier.

 

[peter grimes]

Cars with power steering after it fails are far more difficult to turn than ones without power steering. It really doesn't matter that much whether you are stopped or not, or how strong you are. You are going to be able to discern the difference quite easily because you are fighting the hydraulics instead of them aiding you.

And why wouldn't it be wise to turn the wheels while stopped?

There's a lot of legacy thinking about this myth, as im sure you know.

Back before power steering, in the good old days of manual steering, it was proper procedure to start turning the steering wheel once the car was moving ever so slightly. This wasn't to avoid undue tire wear, but to provide the driver with the least amount of friction for steering.

With the widespread adoption of power steering even in cars that don't necessarily need it (like my current car - a 2.5L), nobody really thought to amend the recommendations.

My old truck had manual steering. 350cubic inches if Chevrolet steel sat just behind the front wheels, and parallel parking in Hartford CT let me feel every pound. In fact, the guy who stole the truck failed to steer out of the spot properly and dragged the ass of my neighbor's car out into the middle of the street. He then failed to turn the steering wheel enough times to avoid a telephone pole, and that was the end of his joy ride.

 

[Formaldehyde]

The sports car has again been redefined.

The McLaren P1:

It ran the Nordschliefe in under 7 minutes.


Link to video.

0-60 in 2.8 seconds.


Link to video.

The Porsche 918:

It responds by running the Nordschiefe in 6:57.


Link to video.

The electric motors give it 500 ft lbs of torque at 800 RPM. 0-60 in 2.6 seconds.

The exhaust glows blue and exits at the top of the engine.


Link to video.

Anybody have a spare $3M so I can buy both and get back to you on which I think is better?

 

[IAM]

I have a 1993 Nissan pickup. 2 wheel drive 4 cylinder. Over 300,000 miles. For years I have put more hours on it than miles. Using it to haul stuff a few hundred or a thousand feet. So I'll run the radio for 90 minutes and then run the engine on idle for ten minutes to let the battery recharge.

Been running 93 octane in it for 15 years or so. I have been told I should run 87 octane but when I do the engine knocks and makes more noises. What do you suggest?

Ran into a guy yesterday that has a similar Nissan and he has made several modifications. He added a battery and inverter and uses it as a mobile generator running the engine idle for 8 hours at a time for construction. Another thing he did was to remove the cover on the air filter and just places the wing nuts back directly on the filter to hold it in place. He says it adds 9 horsepower. So I'm trying it. Does that sound right? Any other ideas? Trying to get some more work out of the vehicle.

Engine and everything is original. Truck is rusty and has major dents and bangs from hauling firewood, driving though woods, etc.