Are you saying that "unjust" and "illegal" are simply synonyms 
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GhostWriter16
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Just curious, but if Pope John Paul II's statement on Capital Punishment a statement of faith that must be followed, or simply an opinion you happen to agree with?
Are you saying that "unjust" and "illegal" are simply synonyms
Who are you addressing here, me or Civ_King?
I was talking to Arakhor.
And getting too far off the subject, so I will drop it.
And getting too far off the subject, so I will drop it.
He didn't say it must be abolished, he said it was unnecessary
Arakhor, I copypasta a dictionary entry
GhostWriter16
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I didn't say he said it had to be abolished. My question was whether Catholics are allowed to disagree with him.
timtofly
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Are you saying that "unjust" and "illegal" are simply synonyms
If a judge is "unjust" does that mean you can get away with an "illegal" act?
Due to his wording, yes, but it doesn't mesh with the teachings of Jesus
Is NFP doctrinally approved? Or is it just a practice? Or am I misunderstanding those terms?
And I think I'm confused regarding intent. It seems to me that practicing NFP is intending to have marital relations with the intent of avoiding pregnancy.
And I think I'm confused regarding intent. It seems to me that practicing NFP is intending to have marital relations with the intent of avoiding pregnancy.
It is well-known that the Catholic Church has done much to improve the lives of the hard-done-by throughout the world. However, it is also well-known that Jesus went out of his way to include the excluded or disliked - the Samarian woman, the tax-collector and the centurion's son for some - regardless of society's opinions of their social ills. Aren't you practising some rather un-Christlike behaviour in discriminating against homosexuals, pregnant teenagers and so on?
GhostWriter16
Deity
This assumes they are actually discriminating against them. I'm not Catholic, but I'm pretty sure the doctrine is "Hate the Sin, love the Sinner" which is perfectly in line with Christ's teachings, and this is the attitude of most Bible-believing Churches.
I know a few super-nutty churches go beyond that, but that is hardly the norm.
@Civ_King- So its against the teachings of Jesus, but since its not against the teachings of the Pope's, its allowed to be dissented? Or are you saying that it goes against the teachings of Jesus In your opinion but some genuine Catholics disagree with you?
Besides, where did Jesus teach on Capital Punishment at all? John 8 is the best you can get, which was probably not meant to be there anyway and even if it were can be interpreted various ways.
NFP has the thumbs up, it still allows the gift of life to be given,
We aren't discriminating of homosexuals, we disagree with their actions, pregnant teenagers need support and so on
I'm saying that the Pope says it is unnecessary except in very few cases, Jesus talked about forgiveness, kindness and redemption, capital punishment does not match with that message plus there is the ever present chance of killing people and it is cheaper for life in prison .
I know NFP has 'the thumbs up'. I was looking for more theology that that! 
GhostWriter16
Deity
You are trying to argue that Pope John Paul II is right, and by doing so you are missing my point altogether. I'm not asking you to defend your views (That would be a political discussion rather than a religious one) I'm asking if Catholics are allowed to believe in Capital Punishment in different circumstances than Pope John Paul II did. For instance, if a Catholic believed that all murderers should get the death penalty, would they be required to change their views?
GhostWriter16
Deity
I have another question. I know some Catholics on here have been talking about not ever being able to know someone's eternal fate. If that is so, how can you know the Saints are in Heaven?
Actually it is about if the person ends up in Hell that we wont know,
Jehoshua
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Catholic teaching is that legitimate authority the state has the right to the judicial use of the death penalty when no other option is guaranteed to ensure the safety and well being of society. JPII in his opinion thought that in the contemporary world such situations are extremely rare if not non-existent and so argued for the death penalties total abolition, but that is his opinion and hardly a solemn pronouncement on faith and morals ex-cathedra. Thus a catholic can support the death penalty and not be going against established doctrine.
Jehoshua
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Generally the process for determining whether a person is a saint in heaven is a determination that at least two miracles have occurred from God due to their intercession and that their lives were free from any grave error. In this manner the Church proclaims that certain individuals are certainly in heaven however this does not negate that for any person at his death or in his life one cannot judge his fate. In fact often the determination that someone is in heaven takes centuries due to the rigor of the process.
On an unrelated topic, interestingly the term devils advocate comes from one of the officers that until recently worked on the saintly causes called the promotor fidei (promoter of the faith) who's job was to find any flaw in the argument for a persons canonization. Popularly they thus became known as the advocatus diaboli, or devil's advocate.
timtofly
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My intuition says that the RCC is in the same position the Jewish Sanhedrin was in when Jesus was alive. I am not trying to start a debate, and hope not to keep having to ask questions in this line of thought. I just would like to see what kind of defense (more than a few sentences) that would persuade me otherwise. So I am asking, can someone humor me? Thanks.
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