Ask a Turk
- Thread starter Azkonus
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Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
Well, I don't want to argue with you, but I just want to point out that in my opinion:
That's just my opinion.
is not important,knigh+ said:
is exaggerated.knigh+ said:
That's just my opinion.
Mirc
Not mIRC!!!
I've been in Ankara and I know a Turkish girl living in London, so I feel obligated to confirm!Gangor said:
Though the percentage of hot girls is not the highest I've seen, they can be extremely hot!
knigh+
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knigh+
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Well, I don't want to argue with you, but I just want to point out that in my opinion:
is not important,
is exaggerated.
That's just my opinion.
Doesn't mean they are not true. I was just putting out some trivia that might be interesting for gatherers of useless little info, like myself.
Should have said oldest known fortified settlement for Catalhoyuk.
knigh+
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I somewhat agree... Besides, even if we get in Europeans will always have prejudices and will look down on us.
Many Turks think instead of sucking up to EU, Turkey should wait until EU figures out what it is and what it wants. Then it will be clear if we'll be a member or not. Ambiguity is not good. As the Americans say, EU should stop p...yfooting and come clean.
knigh+
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Winner
Diverse in Unity
Well, it is not about looking down to anybody, it is simply that you're not Europeans in the eyes of many Europeans. It's like starting membership talks with Vietnam.
The problem is they said yes to Turkey back in the times EU was just that - an economic organization. But nowadays, it is about something else and that promise is just... embarrasing.
No, man there is no problem actually. Turks want and do improve economic relations with EU. Only problem is that EU tries to put his nose into things he should not; like Cyprus, or our internal problems or agriculture in Turkey.
But maybe you are wondering why Turkey still wants to keep talks going?
It is because we are getting (and want to get more) foreign investments which fuels our economy, in the meantime we are building hundreds of skyscrapers in Istanbul, state-of-the-art airports and a subway line which will link Asia to Europe under the sea.
knigh+
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In the eyes of most Turks, that is looking down. I understand you aren't saying it with that intention, but most Turks will take it in a bad way.
Every EU country has Turkish minority. I dont see what would be the problem if EU itself has Turkey as a concentrated minority.
At this point I should also say, a common European misconception is taking the immigrants in their countries as representative of Turkey. Mostly, prosperous Turkish people stay in Turkey (or go to US); almost all of the Turkish immigrants in EU are the poorest and least educated of Turkey. So being afraid of 75 million uneducated potential immigrants is not realistic.
knigh+
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Welcome back, and thanx for opening this thread. It was a good idea.
As far as I know it is EU's job to meddle with agriculture of its members.
But Cyprus... EU's meddling is the reason the island is still divided. The two sides were truly discussing to make concessions on both sides, they were about to fix the situation. Then EU came along and told the Greek Cypriots they don't need to make any concessions, they have won no matter what happens. So Greeks took a hardline stance, they don't even bother to discuss anything anymore; they list their demands and then put on earplugs. If Turks are anti-EU today, it is because of this screw up of Cyprus (and potential membership of Turkey) by EU.
My fiancee' and I are Americans living in Chicago. We have travelled most of Europe and have decided to visit Turkey for a week. The pictures you've provided are marvelous and definitely a place we'd like to visit.
If you were to make a itinerary for us what would you do?
We're good travellers (for Americans) would we be welcome?
Time of the year?
Things to be aware of?
Partying, food?
If you were to make a itinerary for us what would you do?
We're good travellers (for Americans) would we be welcome?
Time of the year?
Things to be aware of?
Partying, food?
knigh+
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depends on what you like
1- Top spots summary trip: Istanbul, Ephesus, Pamukkale (Hierapolis), Konya, Capadoccia, Ankara, Safranbolu, back to Istanbul
2- Coastal trip: Antalya, Patara, Lycian Coast, Fethiye, Marmaris (Cleopatra Island day trip), Bodrum, Kusadasi (Ephesus day trip)
3- History trip: Istanbul, Gallipoli, Troy, Ephesus, Hierapolis, Antalya (Aspendos), Konya (Catalhoyuk), Ankara, Hattushash, Capadoccia
4- Off the beaten path (Eastern Turkey): Diyarbakir (walls second to only great wall of China), Hasankeyf, Harran, Urfa , Mt.Nemrud, Divrigi.
5- Way off the beaten path (Eastmost Turkey): Van, Akdamar Island, Dogubeyazit, climb MtArarat
, Trabzon (Sumela Monastery), rafting in Coruh river 6- Christian pilgrimage path: Istanbul, Iznik (Nicaea, council of bible standardization), Ephesus (House of Virgin Mary, Tomb of St.John), Antalya (Demre - Myra : the home (and tomb?) of Santa - he is not from North Pole), Capadoccia, Antioch (oldest churches), Urfa (Edessa, the city where Abraham initially preached)
There are many other nice places, but I think I listed enough. You can google each place for more info, and even mix and match between the itineraries above. Usually first timers do a variation of #1.
If you have only one week, you'll have to minimize it, like Istanbul (3 days)-Ephesus (1 day)-Capadoccia (2 days)-Ankara (1 day)
everybody is welcome in Turkey. You might be amazed, even disturbed at how welcome you are.
depends on your itinerery selection
General rule is to avoid the two religious holidays. Those are when most Turks take their vacations, so all intercity transportation modes get jammed.
1- traffic
2- non-turkish, non-EU, non-US strangers in Istanbul. Lately there has been many instances of conning or mugging of tourists by foreigners in touristic parts of Istanbul.
There are clubs, discos etc. in big cities and coastal towns.
is awesome. You'll feel quite restricted if you are a vegetarian.
Well, knigh+ already gave you his detailed trip suggestions, what I can add is that if you really love wonderful weather, gorgeous beaches; and also want to get a little bit of tan and relax soo good I'd say skip Istanbul go directly to Antalya region.
So I would suggest Antalya, Kemer, Fethiye, Marmaris, Bodrum. You can also visit Kusadasi and Efes (Ephesus) if you want to visit the best ancient city in the world
.Turkey is a touristic country #6 or 7 in the world, so you should be in a good shape. They come mostly from germany, russia and UK.
I'd say somewhere between June and November. Sea gets warm starting from last days of may and stays warm until early days of october.
All-inclusive holiday villages. (I mean you relax, swim have fun and everything but you don't see the country you just stay in a hotel complex.)
Partying all night long, if you can keep up
. Food is awesome but you may find it a little oily at first, so don't eat to much for a few days until you get used to it.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Then you probably didn't get the idea. EU puts its nose everywhere and you have to accept it. Cyprus, like it or not, is not your internal problem. You refuse to recognize one of the EU members and you break the treaty you signed with the EU on customs union. Your internal problems would become our internal problems in case you joined, so the EU has every right to intervene.
This just proves you're not ready for the membership.
Fine, so you don't need it anyway. I am glad to hear that. Maybe we will agree on that Turkey's membership in the EU isn't necessary at all.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Well, that's a problem you have to deal with.
That would be a great problem. Turkish minority in Germany still isn't integrated and it appears it will never be.
The more important part is, that if we want to move towards political unity, we will have to obtain the approval of all member states. I can't possibly imagine Turkey agreeing on giving up its national sovereignty. You're too nationalistic - even now, you over-react on things we see as normal.
Turkey's membership would make it impossible for the EU to evolve into some sort of federation, it would conserve it on the level of economic union.
Perhaps it is not, but look at how Germans and Austrians treat the current new members - they've set up an "transitional periods" during which people from the new EU members are stripped of their right to seek jobs in EU-15 countries (except Britain, Ireland and Sweden). Now as I explained in different thread, current new EU members living standard measured by GDP per capita in PPP is almost double than that of Turkey. Of course, in the case of current EU members, nobody questions their "European status" - historically, culturally and geographically speaking. It would be impossible to convince the European public, that, even if you were right, no large immigrant wave will hit Europe.
Then, there is the question of your borders. Yesterday, EU finally decided that the new members will join Schengen system (no border checks on internal borders) in 2007/2008. Some of the old members were sceptical about it, they said the new members won't be able to guard their eastern borders (with Russia, Ukraine, Belarus etc.). I think it would be impossible to properly control the Turkish borders with countries like Syria, Iran or Iraq. That would create an alternate route for illegal immigrants from Muslim countries, which is quite frankly the last thing on Earth we need right now.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
But hey, I don't want to hijack your thread, so I'll ask a question:
how do children in Turkey learn about history? I mean things like Byzantine Empire, 1453 fall of Constantinople, invasions to Europe, Siege of Vienna, occupation of Hungary and the Balkan nations etc.?
I'd like to know what kind of feeling they got from that - I mean, are they proud of that, or is it described in a negative way?
(edit: I ask that because perhaps the first time I heard about Turkey was when I saw some fairy-tale in TV, where Turks were the evil enemies of a good king
I don't remember how we were teached about that, but I think the feeling we got from that lessons was "those evil invaders, good that we defeated them!" - no offence, of course)
how do children in Turkey learn about history? I mean things like Byzantine Empire, 1453 fall of Constantinople, invasions to Europe, Siege of Vienna, occupation of Hungary and the Balkan nations etc.?
I'd like to know what kind of feeling they got from that - I mean, are they proud of that, or is it described in a negative way?
(edit: I ask that because perhaps the first time I heard about Turkey was when I saw some fairy-tale in TV, where Turks were the evil enemies of a good king
I don't remember how we were teached about that, but I think the feeling we got from that lessons was "those evil invaders, good that we defeated them!" - no offence, of course)
knigh+
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I always think EU is not ready to take in Turkey, for such reasons.
Border with Syria is fine, it is very flat, nobody can sneak in. Border with Iran is somewhat ok, and Iranians don't immigrate much anyway. But with Iraqi border, I thought about the same thing as well and I totally agree with you.
Winner
Diverse in Unity
Well, if the US cannot control its borders with Mexico (flat and one would say nobody could sneak in), what are the chances Turkey will control its border? Don't take me wrong, I am sure you'd do everything you could, but I don't think it would be possible.
knigh+
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But hey, I don't want to hijack your thread, so I'll ask a question:
how do children in Turkey learn about history? I mean things like Byzantine Empire, 1453 fall of Constantinople, invasions to Europe, Siege of Vienna, occupation of Hungary and the Balkan nations etc.?
I'd like to know what kind of feeling they got from that - I mean, are they proud of that, or is it described in a negative way?
(edit: I ask that because perhaps the first time I heard about Turkey was when I saw some fairy-tale in TV, where Turks were the evil enemies of a good king
Mostly it is Veni, vidi, vici.
I might not remember exactly, it was a long time ago, and I didn't keep history I learned as a child in a different part of my brain.
One thing I can say for sure is that it doesn't try to make you hate anybody, except perhaps the last few decades of Ottoman administration.
Traditional enemies like Byzantines are never portrayed as evil, as they often helped Seljuks (against crusades) and early Ottomans (against other Byzantines, and other Turks). As a general rule, nobody is vilified, except maybe the Ottoman administration in its last decade. And Arabs a little bit (thanks to Lawrence).
1453's importance is emphasized a lot, how it is the official end of medieval era, how scholars and artists fleeing the city sparked off renaissance, and other stuff. Also how Mehmed didn't kill people, and preserved all churches except the big one.
For all conquests, the attitude is this: As long as they are fighting, they are dead. Once they stop fighting, they are welcomed as citizens of the Empire, and have freedom of religion, travel, etc. Like Roman Empire I guess.
Vienna is veni, vidi, no vici...twice
Balkan nations were an integral part of the empire until "the stupid French discovered freedom and equality, sparking national movements everywhere". This is one trend I don't like in children's history, if something bad happened it is not our fault. I learned later that the main reason was the decentralization of the empire, which paved the road for local governors to be as cruel as they want. In good old times, they would be beheaded if they were cruel to people the way they were in 19th century.
One common trend is to emphasize the influence of western powers on independence movements in the Empire. As if the balkan countries were very happy in 19th century, suddenly Brits told them to revolt and they obliged
. So Balkan countries aren't in too much negative light for their independence wars.The general trend is proud (I think this is true for every country). No matter if we won or lost a battle, we must have fought valiantly, etc. Good things are emphasized, while bad things get mentioned briefly. For example, 19th century focuses on westernization attempts, first attempt at parliamentary monarchy, additional rights given to non-muslim minorities in 1839 and 1856, Napoleon, wars with Russia; while in truth the empire was crumbling to pieces.
I think all countries emphasize good things in their history in school.
Another trend is excluding all horror stories, so that children don't learn to hate. Places like Crete, Crimea, Caucasus, Balkans, Izmir and Western Anatolia and Eastern Anatolia where I later learned lots of ethnical cleansing of a few million Turks took place by Greece, Russia, Russia, Balkans, Greece, and Armenians, respectively. On the other side, we don't learn any of the Armenian or Greek sufferings either. Well, I suppose it was a regular element of 19th century warfare.
First half of 20th century is obviousy a shrine to Ataturk. And we don't get to learn after WW2, because then we would have to examine the roots of some political parties, and politics is banned in schools. That could be true in the 1990s, when some political leaders of 50s were still active, but I think the parties have changed a lot, so they should extend the books to 1983 - to include Cold War, Korea, the coups and Cyprus.
edit: For the history before Seljuks, we learn both Anatolian and Central Asian history
Hope this helps, feel free to ask if you want to know about any specific part of history.
