Ask an atheist (the second coming)

[DaveShack]

Okay, time for a short interlude about the Bible.

Often in this forum Christians and Atheists are pitted against each other on Bible-quote wars. A very unfortunate side-effect is that both sides forget the worth the Bible has as a historical document. It opens a window in societies long gone through the stories they tell. I have been told that the hebrew version is kind of a literature masterpiece. We must remember in the fierce discussions that it's not the worth of the Bible that is contested, but the credibility of the content with regard to the extra-ordinary claims it makes.

That is all.

Back to our regular broadcasting.

Sorry, with the spammy start I didn't realize it was meant to be serious.

I took a Bible as Literature class in college, and it was quite enlightening. Even as a child I realized that the stories I had learned in Sunday School were not literally true, despite what the more faithful said they believed about them. The literature class made the inconsistencies even more obvious. By forcing me to be an observer looking in, it helped me see that my religion's holy book suffered from the same troubles as all the others.

However, I can't deny two important things I got from religion:

1. There are inherently good and bad actions in life. It is better to live a life full of inherently good actions.
2. Since you can't avoid death, it is better to see the good that was in the life of the departed instead of dwelling on the tragedy of their death.

I now see religion as a vehicle to enlightenment on these, and other similar topics. Some people need the all powerful judge to help them choose to do good, or the all benevolent to receive them in the afterlife to soothe the pain of death. I'm past the point of needing the crutch, but that doesn't lessen my belief that others need it. Even though I don't need it, and can question the truth of it, I still feel free to believe in it.

And now in the spirit of an "ask a" thread...

If you disregard the vehicle and focus on the end result, how similar or different are atheist views to theist, on the things that really matter?

Also, is atheism really a kind of religion? If it's not, then why do atheists seem to want to treat it like one, legally?

 

[warpus]

Well, that's just it - who can answer the questions with any authority?

That's the thing about atheism though - there isn't any authority. I mean, it's group of people defined by a lack of a belief.. As such atheists don't really have much in common aside from that 1 lack of something... and a lack of something isn't a very good way to describe someone.

Anyway, each (serious) answer here will be answered differently by many of us.. or at least should be.

 

[erez87]

That's the thing about atheism though - there isn't any authority. I mean, it's group of people defined by a lack of a belief.. As such atheists don't really have much in common aside from that 1 lack of something... and a lack of something isn't a very good way to describe someone.

Anyway, each (serious) answer here will be answered differently by many of us.. or at least should be.

Authority in the atheist community is usually derived from the time spent by the person to study a subject (rather than his place in the religious structure).

Questions in Biology will tend to be answered by Biologists or people who have personally learned Biology to a certain degree...

I would hope that questions about the physical measurable world would not be answered diffrently by atheists

 

[DaveShack]

Authority in the atheist community is usually derived from the time spent by the person to study a subject (rather than his place in the religious structure).

How do you quantify study of the lack of something?

In science, time in service is not the only measure of someone's standing. Accuracy and novelty of results is also an extremely important factor.

 

[erez87]

How do you quantify study of the lack of something?

In science, time in service is not the only measure of someone's standing. Accuracy and novelty of results is also an extremely important factor.

You don't. There are no questions in Atheism (what atheism question can you think of?). Any question atheists ask will have something to do with other things - in which case it goes to either science or philosophical thought... Nothing to do with Atheism.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sorry, with the spammy start I didn't realize it was meant to be serious.

Well, serves me right I guess for the spammy start and poorly defined thread title.

If you disregard the vehicle and focus on the end result, how similar or different are atheist views to theist, on the things that really matter?

Hardly anything for the average atheist/theist. Both have similar experiences, one subscribes somethings to a deity, sometimes defines it as deity, but ultimately I feel it's mostly semantics. Most theists don't spend the majority of their time into service of their God, and just go on with their life the same way atheists do.

Also, is atheism really a kind of religion? If it's not, then why do atheists seem to want to treat it like one, legally?

I guess it's to level the playing field. If religions get special treatment, some atheists will want some of that.

 

[Yared]

Also, is atheism really a kind of religion? If it's not, then why do atheists seem to want to treat it like one, legally?

No, Atheism isn't really kind of like a religion. I would argue that animals, who are too intellectually inferior to ponder philosophical questions and issues, are atheist. Not because they follow some kind of religion, but because they simply can't comprehend the existence of a God. Of course - you never know!

Then there is "New Atheism". New Atheism also includes (at least in my opinion) the big Youtube Atheists like Thunderf00t. That's the movement that people probably most commonly conflate with Atheism as a whole. Not that that's surprising, considering how most of the Atheists that I know pretty much agree with the "tenets" of New Atheism.


To answer the second part, I'm gonna assume that you're referring to stuff like Pastafarianism and the Invisible Pink Unicorn. People don't actually believe in them, but they make a big deal of them to show how silly religions are (and the benefits they get) and to create debate. Like this guy, who argued that he was obliged by Pastafarianism to wear a bowl over his head:

But mostly it's because it's fun. I am particularly fond of the Invisible Pink Unicorn myself, because any entity that is capable of the incredibly feat of being invisible and pink AT THE SAME TIME(!!!) must surely be worshipped.

 

[peter grimes]

If it's not [a religion], then why do atheists seem to want to treat it like one, legally?

I, for one, don't want my lack of a belief in supernatural gods to be treated on par legally with a belief in supernatural gods. Quite the opposite - I want to see all legal, political, and financial exemptions that are currently offered to religious groups revoked.

 

[timtofly]

I, for one, don't want my lack of a belief in supernatural gods to be treated on par legally with a belief in supernatural gods. Quite the opposite - I want to see all legal, political, and financial exemptions that are currently offered to religious groups revoked.

I agree every entity that makes a profit should be taxed. If it is found out that they spend more than they bring in, how would one quantify that? Would that mean that non-profits declare bankruptcy also if needed?

 

[Leoreth]

But mostly it's because it's fun. I am particularly fond of the Invisible Pink Unicorn myself, because any entity that is capable of the incredibly feat of being invisible and pink AT THE SAME TIME(!!!) must surely be worshipped.

Bah, Mermaid Man's invisible boat-mobile can do that too

 

[peter grimes]

I agree every entity that makes a profit should be taxed. If it is found out that they spend more than they bring in, how would one quantify that? Would that mean that non-profits declare bankruptcy also if needed?

I work for a not-for-profit theatre company. The way it works here is that on the [off-off] chance we don't lose money in a given year whatever money hasn't been spent is allowed to go back into our endowment. It's not profit, in the sense that nobody gets a slice of that. In a for-profit company stakeholders get a slice of that profit. In not for profit they don't. Nobody does.

But I don't see why a group of people peddling lies should be given preferential tax treatment. My theatre company peddles lies as well, but everybody walking through the door *knows in advance* that the story they'll see isn't real.

 

[Yared]

Bah, Mermaid Man's invisible boat-mobile can do that too

Ah aah aappapapa! Slow down there. The invisible boat-mobile is EITHER invisible or visible It's not both AT THE SAME TIME! Explain that :3

 

[Artifis]

Well, that's just it - who can answer the questions with any authority?

Nobody can.

EDIT: Mr Atheist, do you concern yourself with cosmological questions such as "What is truth?" Or do you focus on the here and now?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have lots of authority when I'm asked questions about my take on atheism.

If the answer is "I don't know", I don't know with authority.

 

[Leoreth]

I think it's wrong to expect this thread to be like the religious denomination threads. It's not as if atheism has a wide corpus of beliefs that can be debated or questioned. And I understand the "Ask an atheist" in the title here as not referring to the OP or anyone else in particular, but rather as "ask any atheist who happens to visit this thread".

All that keeps atheists under the common label of "atheists" is that they don't believe in God. That's not much to have any authority about.

What most of us know quite a lot about are misunderstandings of the concept of atheism by religious or religiously influenced people. In my opinion, this thread is mainly to rectify these, and to discuss how the benefits people draw from religion can be gained without it. No need for any authority there.

 

[Leoreth]

EDIT: Mr Atheist, do you concern yourself with cosmological questions such as "What is truth?" Or do you focus on the here and now?

I prefer the Wittgensteinian approach to such questions.

 

[Artifis]

I prefer the Wittgensteinian approach to such questions.

That there are many truths?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

"ask any atheist"

One of the options I considered for the thread title.

Mr Atheist, do you concern yourself with cosmological questions such as "What is truth?" Or do you focus on the here and now?

If you mean truth as in "what is reality", I am interested in it, but it's a mind boggling subject.

Not sure how here and now factors in.

 

[Artifis]

If you mean truth as in "what is reality", I am interested in it, but it's a mind boggling subject.

Not sure how here and now factors in.

"Here and now" referring to everyday concerns that we can see and trust in, rather than flighty thoughts of whether truth really exists.

What are your thoughts on the mind-boggling subject known as reality then?

 

[FredLC]

EDIT: Mr Atheist, do you concern yourself with cosmological questions such as "What is truth?" Or do you focus on the here and now?

That isn't cosmological. It's philosophical - though, granted, modern physics is so fundamental that such issues seens to overlap a little.

And I am obviously concerned with such questions, though arriving at the answer of a range of possible truths does not seem that hard.

In fact, the matter-energy duality of particles in quantum physics seens to indicate that there is no "Laplace's supermind", that the universe isn't, in it's most fundamental level, the deterministic place described by newtonian ideas, what makes the concept of a single "truth" to be little more than an intellectual excercize.

Regards .