[RD] Ask an Israeli

[Absolution]

RD permission granted by dutchfire

For the nice time of us all, pleas keep any offense or cynical criticism out of this discussion, and avoid dragging it to a political argument (there have been several rich threads just for these arguments).

However, you are welcome to ask any question about how people or groups in Israel view about the different aspects of the conflicts involving Israel and the criticism regarding them.

To sharpen your questions, here's some valuable information about myself:

• Ethnic origin: I am a Jew, the majority population in Israel. Not of a religious family though.
  I am of mixed diasporic origin - my father is of Oriental origin while my mother is Eastern European.
  
  
• Location: live in a small city called Givatayim, which is located in the "central urban area" of the country. It is adjacent to the easternmost neighbourhoods of Tel Aviv.
  
  
• Economic situation: I am of Middle-High economic class family. I can still answer a variety of questions though, since "classes" don't play much of a role in Israel, so that economic situation does not highly affect your social or even political environment.
  
  
• Army service issues: I have served in the army for 3 years, just like any non-Arab Israeli citizen must do, but I will not provide anymore details about my own service (because of web-security instructions). However, in case you are interested, I may relate to the matters of the influence of the military service on the society and on individuals (me or others) as a period in life.

Let us all enjoy

 

[Bootstoots]

What are people in Israel currently thinking about long-term future of the West Bank? It seems that settlement expansion and creation of new settlements is being allowed to proceed at a relatively rapid pace, even if the IDF occasionally dismantles illegal ones. Is there any vision about what this will lead to, and if so, what is it?

 

[Omega124]

What do you think is the single biggest obstacle to the resolution of the conflict?

 

[Ajidica]

What's this thing going on with Netanyahu and corruption charges?

 

[CavLancer]

How much oil in the Golan? A while back I heard it was up there with what Saudi has, but since then nothing. Any new news?

 

[Mouthwash]

Do you read Haaretz? If so, how often?

 

[Agent327]

I can still answer a variety of questions though, since "classes" don't play much of a role in Israel, so that economic situation does not highly affect your social or even political environment.

• Army service issues: I have served in the army for 3 years, just like any non-Arab Israeli citizen must do, but I will not provide anymore details about my own service (because of web-security instructions). However, in case you are interested, I may relate to the matters of the influence of the military service on the society and on individuals (me or others) as a period in life.

There do appear to be at least two classes in Israel. So classless society is still not just around the corner.

But I appreciate the candid introduction.

 

[Mouthwash]

There do appear to be at least two classes in Israel. So classless society is still not just around the corner.

Arab Muslims aren't drafted into the army, but they can enlist.

 

[Agent327]

And I'm sure they also all can learn Hebrew without any objection.

 

[Mouthwash]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but this isn't the thread for it.

 

[Agent327]

The point was in the OP. I pointed out the point wasn't valid. You tried to remake the point and succeeded in proving the point wasn't a point.

 

[Flying Pig]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but this isn't the thread for it.

Moderator Action: This is correct - 'Ask a' threads are for questions and answers.

Follow-up questions are fine, but the idea is to provide space for people to ask questions in the spirit of finding out about a perspective of somebody that they wouldn't normally talk to. This is not the place to start discussions about whether you agree with the answers given, or to have general debates about the subject matter.

If you want to have a discussion/debate on how far Israel is a 'classless society', or exchange views on the answers given here, please start a new thread.

 

[Absolution]

What are people in Israel currently thinking about long-term future of the West Bank? It seems that settlement expansion and creation of new settlements is being allowed to proceed at a relatively rapid pace, even if the IDF occasionally dismantles illegal ones. Is there any vision about what this will lead to, and if so, what is it?

Honestly I don't think most people have any logical view regarding the future of the West Bank.

However, those who have a clear vision, can be divided into three:
1. Active settlers / ultra Zionists - Jews should keep settling in the West Bank territories, as a process of annexation will begin soon after. Palestinians who choose to leave will have the financial (or maybe logistical) support of the state of Israel, with the aim of keeping them a much smaller minority in those territories. Some will support a violence expulsion of them, or keeping them with 2nd level citizen rights.
2. Classical left - The two nations must coexist in peace, Palestinians deserve their own independence, we can not keep depressing them. As much settlements as possible will be evacuated as a result of a negotiation with the Palestinian Authority.
3. Neo-left (a term I've just coined) / pragmatist Zionism (another one) - If we don't do anything to solve this situation (growing settlements / Palestinians living under military rule), we will end up having to annex the West Bank, and thus have the "risk" of an Arab majority in Israel. Then, they say, we will have to give up one of the two prime values - democratic state or a Jewish state. This view is intended to fight central-voters' passivism and does not necessarily come out of identification with Arab suffer.

But still as said above, most people don't belong to any of the three.

What do you think is the single biggest obstacle to the resolution of the conflict?

The leaders may not have required credit to go for the obvious compromises.
The public of both sides no longer want it enough.

What's this thing going on with Netanyahu and corruption charges?

An interesting situation actually.

I was always thinking that what keeps him widely supported in comparison to other briefly-supported politicians is that he is not the kind of man to get into such dirty issues.
Only in the last 15 years we've had 3 ministers and one prime minister imprisoned for corruption charges. Netanyahu never had any real issues of that kind.

Now however, it seems like deal-breaker issues for the first time. We'll have to wait and see if he is being charged or if he is forced to resign.
I must say that from his last speech and social media posts, he is definitely more panicked then I ever heard him.

How much oil in the Golan? A while back I heard it was up there with what Saudi has, but since then nothing. Any new news?

I have no idea about such a thing. The best I can do for you is search Hebrew articles.
They say that some 30 years ago there have been findings that brought up the opportunity of the existence of oil in the Golan. Since 2013 searches are going on, but I didn't find anything more exciting...

Do you read Haaretz? If so, how often?

No.
I read Maariv, which I think is the most (and only) balanced newspaper in Israel.

There do appear to be at least two classes in Israel. So classless society is still not just around the corner.

But I appreciate the candid introduction.

I honestly didn't count them.
But still, I think it is less of an economic class but a classic minority position (one who looses all of his property and moves to tin shack neighbourhoods doesn't become an Arab...).

 

[Mouthwash]

However, those who have a clear vision, can be divided into three:
1. Active settlers / ultra Zionists - Jews should keep settling in the West Bank territories, as a process of annexation will begin soon after. Palestinians who choose to leave will have the financial (or maybe logistical) support of the state of Israel, with the aim of keeping them a much smaller minority in those territories. Some will support a violence expulsion of them, or keeping them with 2nd level citizen rights.

That is largely misleading. The official platform of the most pro-settler party in the Knesset is to annex the existing Area C and extend citizenship to the 50,000 Palestinians living there. The land where Palestinians cannot build (a good indication of where settlements are) constitutes less than a third of Area C and has seen virtually no expansion over the past two decades- those new houses you always hear about are in or near existing settlements. Based on my actual interactions with settlers I'd say fewer than fifteen or ten percent actually want to expel Palestinians or make them second class citizens. Most support giving them incentives to leave, but this is also driven by fears of the higher Palestinian birthrate.

Sorry to be confrontational, but in my opinion living in Tel Aviv is about the same as living in London for all the insight it gives you on the conflict.

 

[Absolution]

That is largely misleading. The official platform of the most pro-settler party in the Knesset is to annex the existing Area C and extend citizenship to the 50,000 Palestinians living there. The land where Palestinians cannot build (a good indication of where settlements are) constitutes less than a third of Area C and has seen virtually no expansion over the past two decades- those new houses you always hear about are in or near existing settlements. Based on my actual interactions with settlers I'd say fewer than fifteen or ten percent actually want to expel Palestinians or make them second class citizens. Most support giving them incentives to leave, but this is also driven by fears of the higher Palestinian birthrate.

Sorry to be confrontational, but in my opinion living in Tel Aviv is about the same as living in London for all the insight it gives you on the conflict.

You may be right if we talked about an Englishman who lived in Tel Aviv for several months.
But being raised in Israel, consuming Israeli media and public voices, plus getting to visit many other parts of the country here and there is some levels more.
I didn't claim to tell you how life in the West Bank is, or what exact plans are there for the future of the settlements in there.
If you want to know how it feels like in Israel or how life is in Israel in general, then I'm here for you (remind you - most Israelis don't live in the West Bank, and so does the Israeli culture).

 

[Mouthwash]

You may be right if we talked about an Englishman who lived in Tel Aviv for several months.
But being raised in Israel, consuming Israeli media and public voices, plus getting to visit many other parts of the country here and there is some levels more.

I assume they don't call Tel Aviv the Bubble for nothing. Visiting other parts of the country doesn't make up for it, going by what you just said.

I didn't claim to tell you how life in the West Bank is, or what exact plans are there for the future of the settlements in there.

You made a sweeping generalization of the views of settlers based on your authority as an Israeli.

If you want to know how it feels like in Israel or how life are in Israel in general, then I'm here for you (remind you - most Israelis don't live in the West Bank, and so does the Israeli culture).

I see very little difference between Israeli culture and settlement culture. Most Israelis I know don't even think of "the settlements" as a distinct entity unless they're discussing politics. This is something that Westerners universally don't understand.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Are the majority of Israeli Jews religious or non-religious?

 

[Agent327]

Why are people still referring to 'the Westbank'? Shouldn't that be 'Palestinian Authority' by now? Or is it generally realized that the latter is mostly a sham?

But still, I think it is less of an economic class but a classic minority position (one who looses all of his property and moves to tin shack neighbourhoods doesn't become an Arab...).

Nor was anyone suggesting that. Classes aren't necessarily economic in nature, as you yourself just point out.

 

[CavLancer]

Well Abso, in fact there's lots of oil in the Golan, but I dunno how much. Its a good thing for Israel.

 

[Absolution]

I see very little difference between Israeli culture and settlement culture. Most Israelis I know don't even think of "the settlements" as a distinct entity unless they're discussing politics. This is something that Westerners universally don't understand.

This is false.

By naming it "settlers" we refer not to those who live in places like Ariel or Ma'ale Edumim, to which many Israelis move in just like they could have moved to any other in Israel city.
Settlers who live in smaller or more distinct settlements and communities, be it well constructed neighbourhoods or a hill with some caravans, clearly share a different way of life than other Israelis. Most Israelis are aware of that. Either politically or culturally, they can easily point that out.

It will be, of course, a flawful generalization, but settlers are mostly characterized by a "chill-out" personality, with an effective spiritual home-education and high moral values (compared to the general Israeli society).
I does not necessarily mean intelligence, though, in which they may vary.

Are the majority of Israeli Jews religious or non-religious?

I'm not a statistics man but still there is a clear majority of non-religious.
However, many of those who'll be counted "non-religious" actually keep several religious traditions and commandments, such as Sabbath, Cosher food, praying once in a while, consulting with Rabis in everyday matters and obviously belief in God and the Hebrew Bible.
It is very common to find traditional Jews mostly in peripheral urban areas, though they are hard to define.
Oriental Jews are more likely to be traditional than Ashkenazis (Central Europeans and wider).
Post-USSR arrivals are the most atheist of the Aliyoths.

Why are people still referring to 'the Westbank'? Shouldn't that be 'Palestinian Authority' by now? Or is it generally realized that the latter is mostly a sham?

Territories under the control of the Authority are smaller than the whole West Bank territory.
Much of it is still under full Israeli rule (military), or joint (you can read more about A, B, C division, there's plenty of English technical text).

Israelis mostly refer to it as Judea and Samaria area. I find the West Bank a good neutral international term.