Pangaea
Rock N Roller
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2010
- Messages
- 6,390
Loaded your save to have a look. You're in a very strong position here, so can win the game any way you want really. Heck, you could probably still smack people around with Horse Archers for that matter. Knights may be a better option, especially if you can hit them before Feudalism starts going around.
Lymond has covered quite some ground, so I'll just make some comments of my own, maybe complementing others a bit, or disagreeing at other points.
1) Tech trades. Holding back somewhat on trading for cheap techs has merit (especially Archery), don't get me wrong. It also means you are spending turns teching unnecessary stuff, though, which you can get for free. Sure, at some point you'll run into the "We fear..." threshold, but it doesn't really matter here, especially as Mansa is on the map. The AIs are slow, you're teching like a beast, and soon enough they'll have nothing to trade anyway. Not sure how well-known this is, but there is also a slight chance each turn that an AI will 'forget' a traded tech. That means you can see them go from "We fear.." status to being willing to trade. For one trade. Then it's back.
Both Suli and Sury are teching Calendar, but I'd just grab it from Mansa tbh. CS for Construction + Calendar. Maybe hold off a turn so you see what Mansa starts next, if it's something better you want to use CS with as tradegood. But let's say you do that trade now. Next turn you can sell Calendar to Suli and Sury for backfiller techs and gold. I'd probably just 'gift' Alpha to Louis for the gold he has too. It won't matter much at this point, despite the worst enemy status (you'll at worst get -1
). Same with Priesthood and Calendar to Sury once he gets some gold. Likewise, I'd have no qualms here about trade e.g. CoL to Suleiman for Mono + Meditation + 70g. You need the money to keep research at full tilt, or near enough.
Another point worth keeping in the back of one's mind is what was touched upon before, about "You shared your technological discoveries with us". By selling cheap stuff like priesthood and alpha for meagre amounts of gold, that counter increases. Doesn't matter if it's Priesthood or Fusion. It's +1 either way. Eventually it will help your diplo. Very easy to get this with Mansa, but it will help in general too.
Edit: Ah yes ofc, Once I did that mono-medi trade in-game I see that Mansa has Philo. That would be excellent to get for CS from him. More important than Construction+Calendar. Especially if you intend to have an early GAge.
2) Courthouses. All those extra EP means you have tech view on several people now, which is nice. And they are cheap with Organized. But they do next to nothing for you in the capital and the cities nearby it. A market in the capital would make a great deal more sense (slight happiness boost, and good for binary research), or a Forge once you get Metal Casting.
3) Gold area. I can't for the life of me fathom why you settled on top of the gold. Especially as the barbs already ruined that FP they settled on. Did the city auto-raze? Probably not unless it was founded very recently (size 1 cities that have never been size 2 will auto-raze, unless you use the option for it in settings when setting up the game). Better to use the city spot that was already there. Or if you could have settled it yourself earlier, on the hill NW of that gold you settled on. That grabs a lot of floodplains which you can farm or cottage, and could theoretically work all three golds, freeing Addis a bit (although it doesn't really have much else to do since plains tiles suck). Anyway, the point is that it's much better to work a gold than settling on it. You see the AI do it to gain the resource, like they tend to do with copper and iron, but it's pretty poor due to the commerce loss.
4) Adulis. I'm not ecstatic about the location of Adulis tbh. Right now you have 4 FPs that can't be worked. The fish city further north will grab one of them, but there are still 3 left over. Suppose you can place another city on the plains 3E of Adulis. Won't be great without any proper resources, but it will grab the remaining FPs.
5) Golden Age. Perhaps my playstyle is different here, but I tend to prefer to postpone Golden Ages a bit, unless I desperately need it to get to Lib or Cuirs or something, before the AIs tech a show-stopper like Rifling. For a GA, you ideally want Pacifism and a religion well-spread. The latter is tricky here because the map is pretty huge, and the founded religions far away. Less natural spread, and lower chance for a horde of missionaries from the AIs. You may have to do it yourself (but first you need OR). True, it hurts with 2 turns of anarchy to first switch civics and then the most fitting religion, but it could make sense too, at least the first move. Admittedly I sometimes kinda mess up with that in my own games. Do the double-switch to HR-OR to save a turn later, and then never go into a religion or spread it myself -- meaning I'm paying extra for the high cost of OR, but not getting any of the benefits (although in this game it helps with diplo). You can't always get the ideal situation with MoM, Pacifism and a well-spread religion though. So if you want a big boost to commerce and hammers now, then it does make some sense too. Just be aware that those GAs will be much more powerful later, when you have an even bigger empire. Perhaps mostly for space games, though, as those last a long time. Sorry if this reads like flip-flopping (
), I'm merely trying to offer some pros and cons.
6) Explore-boat. Doesn't matter so much now since you have a coastal city on the 'other' side of the awkward mountains in the south, however, an explore-boat would still have been good to sail around those mountains (defog them to unlock trade routes) and to explore whatever else is along that coast.
7) The capital. It's a great capital. However, I would have preferred to see it bigger. Lacking HR really hurts you here. With such a good capital and HR, you could have stuffed it full of warriors or archers (if you had the tech for it) and let it grow pretty quickly to 15. Right now you are hamstrung by needing happiness resources. Presumably you are running scientists there to prevent growing into unhappiness, but with HR and some cheap units, the capital could have been bigger and taken over more of those excellent tiles. Due to bureaucracy you want the capital to work them instead of helper cities, when the capital is big enough.
8) Fish-wheat city west. This was touched upon earlier by @Undefeatable, and I agree with him that it would probably have been better to split that location up. The fish city could even borrow the capital's corn to grow very rapidly. And you could have put a city on the riverside tundra, that would automatically irrigate the wheat. A bit later when they're not required to run cottages for the capital, they can both run two scientists plus a host of other half-decent tiles, like lighthouse coast. Or pump out workers or something. The city is good the way it is, don't get me wrong, but it might have been better to split up the food in two cities.
Okay, this wall of text is probably big enough. And doesn't cost a billion dollars either. Woot!
Lymond has covered quite some ground, so I'll just make some comments of my own, maybe complementing others a bit, or disagreeing at other points.
1) Tech trades. Holding back somewhat on trading for cheap techs has merit (especially Archery), don't get me wrong. It also means you are spending turns teching unnecessary stuff, though, which you can get for free. Sure, at some point you'll run into the "We fear..." threshold, but it doesn't really matter here, especially as Mansa is on the map. The AIs are slow, you're teching like a beast, and soon enough they'll have nothing to trade anyway. Not sure how well-known this is, but there is also a slight chance each turn that an AI will 'forget' a traded tech. That means you can see them go from "We fear.." status to being willing to trade. For one trade. Then it's back.
Both Suli and Sury are teching Calendar, but I'd just grab it from Mansa tbh. CS for Construction + Calendar. Maybe hold off a turn so you see what Mansa starts next, if it's something better you want to use CS with as tradegood. But let's say you do that trade now. Next turn you can sell Calendar to Suli and Sury for backfiller techs and gold. I'd probably just 'gift' Alpha to Louis for the gold he has too. It won't matter much at this point, despite the worst enemy status (you'll at worst get -1

Another point worth keeping in the back of one's mind is what was touched upon before, about "You shared your technological discoveries with us". By selling cheap stuff like priesthood and alpha for meagre amounts of gold, that counter increases. Doesn't matter if it's Priesthood or Fusion. It's +1 either way. Eventually it will help your diplo. Very easy to get this with Mansa, but it will help in general too.
Edit: Ah yes ofc, Once I did that mono-medi trade in-game I see that Mansa has Philo. That would be excellent to get for CS from him. More important than Construction+Calendar. Especially if you intend to have an early GAge.
2) Courthouses. All those extra EP means you have tech view on several people now, which is nice. And they are cheap with Organized. But they do next to nothing for you in the capital and the cities nearby it. A market in the capital would make a great deal more sense (slight happiness boost, and good for binary research), or a Forge once you get Metal Casting.
3) Gold area. I can't for the life of me fathom why you settled on top of the gold. Especially as the barbs already ruined that FP they settled on. Did the city auto-raze? Probably not unless it was founded very recently (size 1 cities that have never been size 2 will auto-raze, unless you use the option for it in settings when setting up the game). Better to use the city spot that was already there. Or if you could have settled it yourself earlier, on the hill NW of that gold you settled on. That grabs a lot of floodplains which you can farm or cottage, and could theoretically work all three golds, freeing Addis a bit (although it doesn't really have much else to do since plains tiles suck). Anyway, the point is that it's much better to work a gold than settling on it. You see the AI do it to gain the resource, like they tend to do with copper and iron, but it's pretty poor due to the commerce loss.
4) Adulis. I'm not ecstatic about the location of Adulis tbh. Right now you have 4 FPs that can't be worked. The fish city further north will grab one of them, but there are still 3 left over. Suppose you can place another city on the plains 3E of Adulis. Won't be great without any proper resources, but it will grab the remaining FPs.
5) Golden Age. Perhaps my playstyle is different here, but I tend to prefer to postpone Golden Ages a bit, unless I desperately need it to get to Lib or Cuirs or something, before the AIs tech a show-stopper like Rifling. For a GA, you ideally want Pacifism and a religion well-spread. The latter is tricky here because the map is pretty huge, and the founded religions far away. Less natural spread, and lower chance for a horde of missionaries from the AIs. You may have to do it yourself (but first you need OR). True, it hurts with 2 turns of anarchy to first switch civics and then the most fitting religion, but it could make sense too, at least the first move. Admittedly I sometimes kinda mess up with that in my own games. Do the double-switch to HR-OR to save a turn later, and then never go into a religion or spread it myself -- meaning I'm paying extra for the high cost of OR, but not getting any of the benefits (although in this game it helps with diplo). You can't always get the ideal situation with MoM, Pacifism and a well-spread religion though. So if you want a big boost to commerce and hammers now, then it does make some sense too. Just be aware that those GAs will be much more powerful later, when you have an even bigger empire. Perhaps mostly for space games, though, as those last a long time. Sorry if this reads like flip-flopping (

6) Explore-boat. Doesn't matter so much now since you have a coastal city on the 'other' side of the awkward mountains in the south, however, an explore-boat would still have been good to sail around those mountains (defog them to unlock trade routes) and to explore whatever else is along that coast.
7) The capital. It's a great capital. However, I would have preferred to see it bigger. Lacking HR really hurts you here. With such a good capital and HR, you could have stuffed it full of warriors or archers (if you had the tech for it) and let it grow pretty quickly to 15. Right now you are hamstrung by needing happiness resources. Presumably you are running scientists there to prevent growing into unhappiness, but with HR and some cheap units, the capital could have been bigger and taken over more of those excellent tiles. Due to bureaucracy you want the capital to work them instead of helper cities, when the capital is big enough.
8) Fish-wheat city west. This was touched upon earlier by @Undefeatable, and I agree with him that it would probably have been better to split that location up. The fish city could even borrow the capital's corn to grow very rapidly. And you could have put a city on the riverside tundra, that would automatically irrigate the wheat. A bit later when they're not required to run cottages for the capital, they can both run two scientists plus a host of other half-decent tiles, like lighthouse coast. Or pump out workers or something. The city is good the way it is, don't get me wrong, but it might have been better to split up the food in two cities.
Okay, this wall of text is probably big enough. And doesn't cost a billion dollars either. Woot!

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