Aspiring Rapper's MAFIA- Game Thread

[Kennigit]

kingmorgan 1.0 was town, I forgot to highlight him blue

 

[choxorn]

I

can't

see

all

my

posts

what is this nonsense

The search function can only find 300 posts at the most.

I'm with you in reading Backwards as scum- lurking a lot, especially early on, is in his scum meta, and even compared to some of the other non-talkative people he's been quiet.

 

[Glossysushi]

The search function can only find 300 posts at the most.

I'm with you in reading Backwards as scum- lurking a lot, especially early on, is in his scum meta, and even compared to some of the other non-talkative people he's been quiet.

lame.

>.<

ah, okay.

What do you think about the other people who I talked about?

 

[Glossysushi]

YO, KENNIGIT V. 2

why do you think I'm scum?

(I forgot to ask that)

 

[Zack]

(For some reason I can only access CFC on my phone, and only when I'm not using WiFi, so I won't be able to talk as much as I have been.)

 

[Glossysushi]

(For some reason I can only access CFC on my phone, and only when I'm not using WiFi, so I won't be able to talk as much as I have been.)

what do you think of Mr. Kennigit v. 2?

 

[Kennigit]

granted Pouter had various flips, but I think he had to be onto something heavily. Visor posted day 2 he thought Kennigit 1.0 and Pouter were widely read as town and killed for that reason, but I am not so sure....

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Agreeing with this because it saves me the time having to dig back through for the post Sooh is referencing here. Sushi's sloooowly starting to look better to me, but then there are posts like this that make me wonder. The whole grammatical analysis thing feels like it could be really forced. Like it makes me wonder if we were somehow playing this by mail correspondence if GS would try to invoke handwriting analysis as a legitimate way to gauge people. Also a lot of Sushi's posts have been flat assertions about things being weird or things being town or the like, or using some predetermined scumtells or Meta, both of which are unreliable IMO. I have moments where I'm like "Oh, ok, this seems towny to me" but overall I don't actually see evidence of a lot of thought. There are some here who know Sushi right? To those who do, how good is she at faking town? The reason this read is giving me such a hard time is that I don't recall anything that couldn't be faked by an experienced enough player.

Had a brief wolf ping on Mat, but then I went to take a shower and I forgot what it was. The interaction between Mat and Cuth has me feeling better about Mat and worse about Cuth. IIRC, Cuth is usually similar in playstyle to a lot of the other players here, and the fact that he's seamlessly slipped into MU mode is making a lot of what he says and does seem disingenuous.



Also wanted to address this because I'm seeing it differently than you are. If I was scum this game, I'd be very happy about the level of activity Glossy and Visor are showing. Let's them draw all the attention. Talkative does not equal townie and judging a player on volume rather than content is a mistake IMO. On the other hand, it follows that if scum want all the attention on those two, then scum will be found lurking and low posting. But like I said, I'm having trouble reading GS, and I'm not willing to assume that she's not scum. On the other other hand, she hasn't been dominating the discussion as much as she was earlier, and a handful of other players seem to have picked up steam, which is good.

Jeez, every line of thought I have makes it harder for me to solidify my read on Sushi...I'll have to look in other directions for now I suppose.

I'd vote for Al Sips or Cass for this day phase. All of the stuff against Al has been reasonable and I haven't noticed anything in his behavior that says "town" particularly, and, as others have pointed out, someone on the Visor wagon is bound to be mafia.

Cass reads just as bad as Cuth when I take a second look at the Visor/Newyn/Cass/Cuth wolf joke thing.

Spoiler :

Alright, after 8 combined hours of travel plus one extra hour of reading the thread, I'll try to gather my thoughts.

Also Unvote

Activity--

Speaking only for myself, if the thread continues to be like this, I don't know if it will be possible for me to be effective as town. Amount of posts to amount of time I'll have to keep up with/catch up on those posts means it's very possible I'll end up having to vote based on merely skimming the thread, which is not acceptable. Even now, having been able to read everything attentively, many of the details from early on in the day are blurring together.

In my experience and opinion, a small number of high content posts are more valuable to town than a high volume of small posts. This initially makes me want to look at Visor, GS, and Lassie of course. The difference in activity is probably best explained by different playstyles across players and sites. I value a small number of large posts because I learned the game by playing with casual groups among whom it's reasonable to expect players to post 3-4 times during a day phase if there are no extenuating circumstances that require their direct attention. So exceptionally high volume in and of itself is not grounds for a lean. But it does make it easier to form impressions. Of the three, Lassie and Visor read as town to me, and Glossysushi is a slight scumlean. Most of the spam/fluff/filling that's inflating the thread seems to come from Sushi's prompts and Visor's responses to those prompts. Aside from tunneling Visor, I can't recall what other content GS has brought to the table except for a few general assertions about what is scum and a couple of kneejerk town reads and maybe a "this is how I play as town" post, all of which are safe enough as scum and none of which actually give me town vibes. It's very possible that I'm missing some valuable contributions, but it all kind of blurs together. The point is, either GS is a wolf, or he's town and he's making things more difficult for his teammates than they need to be.

Lassie, on the other hand, has put forward some first impression reads and other stuff which I think create more than they distract from the content of the thread.

Visor I can't talk about without mentioning the Visor/Newyn/Cass_/Cuth interaction where they all pretended to be wolves. My money's on at least one of them being maf, because one of them has to be, right?

I don't think it's Visor because IIRC, he was the initiator of the joke and kind of prompted other people into it, which I interpreted as a clever way to get reactions early on. Cuth was the first to break character, which feels a little flinchy to me. I also literally always suspect Cuth at one point or another though (I kept wanting to vote for him in a recent GitP game before remembering he was the host ) so I don't really trust my early reads on him. Newyn and Cass are null reads at this point, but if it's not Cuth, then maybe it;s one of them. Gut says Cass over Newyn.

Nothing else so far gives me any significant impression one way or the other. Or maybe it did, but if so it got lost in my sleepy brain and dissolved. So that's all my thoughts on everything so far, for now. Sorry for the wall of text.

TL;DR: FoS on Cuth and Glossysushi, town lead on Visor and Lassie

Vote:Glossysushi for the time being.

I'm not as convinced as you are that she's [glossy] town, but in light of your posts defending her, I'm willing to give Sushi the benefit of the doubt/some time to produce results, plus I think it will be fun to have her around for a while, so Unvote

Uncomfortable about voting Cuth quite yet as well, since what Legato said about Cuth's wolf play being less aggressive resonates somewhat with my experience playing with him, and I think is part of the reason I didn't trust my initial read on him.

Mat is on my radar atm, but I'm not sure why. It's a very vague feeling. We'll see how it develops as the game progresses.

Vote:Al Sips I have no objections to.

also i have no freaking clue the vote count but I'll add Cass_ to my list, because skimming through it seemed cass placed a vote on al sipsclar (a currently poopular trend) seems meh. Post a bunch but the votes were like an early vote and then a (possibly) lazy or safe vote

List was:
Arakhor
Glossysushi
Cass_

Well, I disagree with lynching Lassie or Cuth at this point, and I'm almost totally ambivalent on Arakhor. His posts never struck me as particularly indicative one way or another and I don't know if I really get the wagon on him that much, but it seems like it's got some kind of meta oomph that is outside of my experience. This PR claim seems sketch though and I don't foresee it being resolved short of Arakhor being lynched, NKed or telling us what the power is.

I'll push a counterwagon though, since nobody else has. So Unvote and let's go with vote: Xym who I think still looks a little parrot-y for my taste, and got town-read by someone (Cass maybe?) at a point when I felt like it was a weird town-read to make. Let's see where this takes us....

I'd rather lunch Cuth than Lassie, but I'd also rather not lynch either so if we can get some more votes on Al or even King Morgan that would be peachy.

Must have been someone else then...I'll go back and look.

I mostly meant since Lassie's most recent push for a counterwagon in light of the latest tally. Also, forgot about Chox in my post. Or raher, I remembered him as a player that was in the suspect list in general, but forgot what my thoughts were about him. The fact that the wagon on him totally disappeared is mad sketchy, you're right. I'll support that lynch. More likely to go through than Xym too it seems. Unvote, Vote: Choxorn

Like 5 or 6 posts implicating Cass, some votes on Glossysushi from the two of us.

Some soft pressures on Choxorn and Al Sipsclar by pouter, and Pouter was pretty right about the other townies (Newyn--now me, Lassie, Visorslash).


Whether that was a frame job on cass that never even got picked up by townies ("let's kill the two people who talked the most about cass, see if the town will lynch them")


And who were the posters that immediately talked about Pouter and mine leans (atlhough glossy made a mistake)

Glossy:

Okay, so I think it's time to analyze what reads they left behind.

On it.

I should point out that Pouter sussed Mat93. I'm sheeping his read that I originally also shared.

And zack (LEAVING OUT CASS AND GLOSSY LEANS):

Where? I'm not finding it. All I'm seeing are Xym, choxorn, KingMorgan, Al Sipsclar. Don't see Pouter mentioning Mat.

I'm telling you, all roads lead to cass and sushi man, or cass and zack, something like that. I can't quite put my finger on it

 

[Zack]

what do you think of Mr. Kennigit v. 2?

Idk, no strong feelings either way. I'm not feeling very confident in any reads atm, considering how egregiously wrong I've been every time. Beginning to suspect that a significant portion of the mafia are lurkers - all lynches and attention have been on people who were pretty active in the thread, which the mafia seem to be content with (judging by who they've left alive).

 

[Kennigit]

whether that was a frame job on Cass, I don't know**

I could believe a panic kill trying to avoid any attention to Cass. Particularly with that zack followup post.

 

[Zack]

also as soon as I posted that suddenly CFC is loading fine on my computer now lol

 

[Zack]

also as soon as I posted that suddenly CFC is loading fine on my computer now lol

ugh spoke too soon still kinda wonky

 

[Al Sipsclar]

vote:kennigit

This vote is bad, imo.

I've updated my reads. My problem is that I'm reading most as town, so I sorted the list in the order of relative towness.

Town:
Newyn-enhanced Kennigit - newyn wanted to lynch lassie for attitude ,Kennigit misunderstanding glossy's timeout and arakhor's role seem towny
Glossysushi - for the effort
Zack - tone and thread presence
Cass_ - tone, early efforts

Slight Town:
Cuthillius - (only because of the CFD D1, scum didn't have to do it), though last vote on Kennigit is bad
Xym.KingMorgan - Xym seemed similarly frustrated in Jarrema's Sissy Heros game, where he was town

Neutral:
Lohrenswald - seems usual Lohrens
BSmith1068 - attempts at analyzing Arakhor's lynch
Backwards Logic - liked his posts, though he's cunning bugger
Legato Endless - liked the tone, explaining cuth and murska meta
choxorn - lynched Visor by calling PIS in clearing townies and his push on BL, lynched Arakhor for his hesitation in unvoting
Murska - pushed to lynch Arakhor, keeps saying he's town, but says he's not concerned about looking towny

Slight Scum:
landlubber - his interaction with Zack seemed fairly v/v, tunneling on Lassie
edse - for the firs time produced a colored reads list on D1

Unresolved:
Autolycus

I'm going to Vote: landlubber, because most everyone seems more towny.

 

[choxorn]

lame.

>.<

ah, okay.

What do you think about the other people who I talked about?

I'll just say what I think of everybody:

al sipsclar: I've had some strong scum vibes coming from him since that unexplained vote on me at the end of the day, and some of his more recent posts still give me those vibes.

Roleblock or protection is my guess. Someone was lucky.

Arakhor was a commuter, that's not a very common role. With the number of people in the game we can have all kinds of roles that negate a night kill.

I'd love to discuss strategies that would allow us to use the power roles more efficiently without private communication. I hope we have a tracker or a watcher. If they get "interesting" results, they should claim. Hopefully, they'll get protection next night.

I realllllly don't like this post, especially the last paragraph- it gives me the impression he's trying to fish for the town power roles without looking like he's trying to fish for the town power roles.

I said before that I have too many town leans. Once again, the top two wagons are leaning town for me. Here are my leans atm (most on tone and scumhunting effort):

Town:
Zack
Cass_

Slight Town:
Lassie
Glossysushi
Cuthillius (only because of the CFD D1, scum didn't have to do it)
Mat93

Neutral:
Lohrenswald
Xym
choxorn

Slight Scum:
edse
landlubber
Takhisis
Legato Endless
BSmith1068

Unresolved:
Autolycus
Backwards Logic
Golden1Knight
KingMorgan
Murska
Newyn-enhanced Kennigit
Sooh

I'll support lynching anyone from the last three groups. Vote: Legato Endless

He gives a big list of reads, but never tells us why he's read anybody that way, then votes for one of them without much reasoning.

I feel like I'm avoiding reading anything from Lassie and Glossy until I have more time. Maybe we should lynch them to reduce the distraction.



I agree with Zack that this is meaningless. Heck, the scum could have avoided wagons on D1, and these all could be just paranoid townies.

I vote: edse per my yesterday reads.

Votes someone on his reads list without much reasoning again, the rest is just annoyance at Lassie and Glossy for posting too much and sheeping Zack.

His other two posts didn't really have much to go on.

Addendum: While I was typing this up, Al posted an updated reads list. He gave some actual reasons this time, but not much. And I'm finding it odd that he can't honestly see anyone as scummy- I'm having the exact opposite problem.

My opinion of him is largely based on that he seems like he's trying to give the impression that he's being active and contributing when he's posting little of any substance and making votes without any explanation in situations where who he votes is basically irrelevant. Read: Strongly scummy.

autolycus: Has barely said anything, and what he has said hasn't been much to go on. He tends to lurk as scum, but he also tends to lurk if he isn't scum, especially early on. Read: I'll call this one neutral, leaning a bit towards scum.

backwards logic: Not much to go off, but like I said, him being this quiet is very much something I'd expect out of scum Backwards. Read: Slightly scummy.

bsmith: A bit more active than those two. Hasn't done much that would attract attention to himself, which is very much scum BSmith, but he's had IRL reasons to not be active and has said a lot more the past few days. Read: Neutral.

cass_: I'm not really sure what to think of her. She hasn't said much that pinged me as either scum or as town. If I was just going off my read, more or less neutral, but I know Visor read her as scum, and his reads are usually pretty good. Read: I'll call this one neutral, leaning a bit towards scum.

cuthilius: I had him as definite scum on day 1 but he hasn't been pinging me since then. The only other time I've seen him as scum he was very active like he's been in this game and he hid fairly well for a few days, only getting caught because of his interactions with his dead mafia partners and a claim that was quickly revealed as a lie in a way that no townie would lie, so I could certainly see him posting this way and being scum, but that doesn't mean he has to be. I'm really unsure about this one. Read: Moderately scummy.

edse: I got a ping from his joke-vote for Zack on Day 1 (and voted him because of it), and haven't seen anything from him that changes that opinion much. Read: Slightly scummy.

glossysushi: You talk a lot. I don't like how many of your posts aren't saying anything, how many triple and quadruple posts you make, and how you kind of post like this is a chatroom, but I must admit that you're attracting way too much attention to yourself and you've mostly acted in a way I'd expect of a townie. Read: Moderately townie.

Kennigit vol. 2: I got neutral-to-slight-scum from Newyn before he was replaced, and Kennigit has been pinging my scumdar a lot since then. Mostly his posts have just been kind of... strange. Now, he has a tendency to act really odd regardless of alignment and I've confused his strangeness with scumminess before, but even so... It doesn't feel right.

Mostly what trips me up is this:

I did keep tabs on the thread while I was dead, and I am a little bit hesitant to just tack on to lassie here. I personally consistently believe that if townies are just truthful it is by far more helpful, even if it makes a pinch. Arakhor died for some reason believing someone else would probably recognize he was the "dice roller" and effectively soft-claimed in the thread (jarrema was probably killed because of this--he said he knew arakhor's role for no reason), but only told all us vanilla townies he had something he couldn't share that ma not work and may not be proven, etc

so lassie you saying you are "lucky guy" when we know power roll was "dice roller" seems like some weird PIS silly metagamey statement, rather than just saying "I am vanilla townie"

Oh, i though arakhor's role was "dice rollah" because i never bothered to recheck after reading his death

He for some reason thought Arakhor was "dice rollah" and that "dice rollah" had some sort of power role. He's misunderstood other things, but it kind of seems like he knows there's an actual "dice rollah" with some sort of power in this game. And his posts speculating about the mafia kills and whether or not we're at LyLo... He just gives off a strong impression that he knows things that we don't and that he shouldn't if he was a vanilla townie. Looks like a very clear case of Perfect Information Syndrome. Read: Definitely Scummy. EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!

KingMorgan vol. 2: I had a null read on Xym and Morgan hasn't said anything yet. Read: Neutral.

landlubber: Fairly active, and has been good at both prodding the people he thinks are scummy and giving reads. I'm with Visor that his interactions with Zack seemed v/v, and while he may have been a bit too focused on Lassie, he was hardly alone in that. Read: Moderately townie.

legato endless: Acted pretty townie on Day 1, then disappeared. He did say he was sick, though. Not quite sure what to make of him. Read: I'll call this one neutral, leaning a bit towards town.

lohrenswald: He's a fairly new player and he's never been scum, so I don't know how he'd act if he was. The way he's played so far is more or less how he typically plays as town, but he might act like this as a scum, too. Hasn't really done much to make me lean one way or the other. Read: Neutral.

murska: I've been told he's a devious scum, but having never seen him as scum, I don't know what scum him looks like. He's been similar to landlubber, you, and Zack, posting a lot, doing genuine analysis, and calling a few people out as scummy. I disagree with his read on me but other than that think he's been pretty solid. Read: Slightly townie.

zack: I've never, once, been able to determine his alignment from his tone and behavior, he's very good at playing the game pretty much the same way regardless of what his alignment is. I recall a game I hosted where he was converted to cult mid-game and more or less played the game exactly the same way he would have if he had still been a townie. So I could easily see him being anything and still acting the way he has so far. That being said, putting himself out there so much and being so active strikes me as townie coming from him. On the other hand, as with Cass above, there's Visor's read of him. On the other other hand, Visor never reads Zack well, any more than I do. Read: I'll call this one neutral, leaning a bit towards town.

Organizing all my reads from most to least scummy:

Kennigit
Al Sipsclar
Cuthillius
edse
Backwards Logic
Cass_
Autolycus
KingMorgan
BSmith
Lohrenswald
Legato Endless
Zack
Murska
Glossysushi
landlubber

Kenny I'm almost sure is scum and Al's close behind, with my top suspects after that being some combination of Cuthillius, edse (probably only one of Cut and edse, but maybe they just bussed hard), and BL.

 

[Kennigit]

mat93 did not seem to post much day 3 I think? didn't really divulge informtion. He made quite a few cases day 2 so I doubt he protected thosee that he made cases against. Can't estimate who he protected

day 1 semi vote progressions:

Spoiler :

Tally:

7 Visor (Cuth, Newyn, KingMorgan, GlossySushi, landlubber, Jarrema, Al Sips)
3 Glossy (Visor, Takhisis, Pouter)
2 Lassie (Lohrens, Cass)
2 Edse (Backwards, choxorn)
2 Arakhor (Kennigit, Xym)
1 Murska (Lassie)
1 Zack (edse)
1 Choxorn (Murska)


Probably mistakes in there somewhere.

[retroactively editting]

5 glossy (cuthillius, jarrema, kennigit, pouter pigeon, takhisis)
4 visor (glossysushi, al sipsclar, king morgan, newyn)
4 cuthilius (choxorn, golden1knight, mat93, visorslash)
2 zack (autolycus, edse)
2 lassie (lohrenswald, cass)
2 choxorn (legato endless, murska)
1 al sipsclar (landlubber)
1 edse (backwards logic)
1 landlubber (zack)
1 murska (lassie)

Arakhor: 10 (Bsmith, choxorn, Kennigit, Murska, Xym, Zack, Visorslash, Mat93. Lassie, Jarrema)

Choxorn: 7 (Cass_, Pouter Pigeon, Arakhor, Cuthillius, Glossysushi, Al Sipsclar, Sooh)

Lassie: 5 (KingMorgan, Lohrenswald, Newyn, landlubber, edse)

Edse: 2 (Backwards Logic, Legato Endless)

Zack: 1 (Autolycus)
Glossysushi: 1 (Takhisis)
Cuthillius: 1 (Golden1Knight)

Choxorn has a few incompatibilities I think. Al Sipsclar built a few votes on day 3. Zack pointed out that the choxwagon on day 1 could be replicated. I don't think too many people are scum WITH choxorn.

Lohr and Cass being on same lone vote day 1 makes me assume they aren't scum pals unless people unvoted. Scum are scared to vote together.

Cuthillius was heavily heavily criticized by Mat93, mainly fo seeming to fish out opinions before voting.


A tough cookie to crack. Many look suspicious.

 

[Zack]

I like that role fishing post you dug up on al sips, chox. Don't know how that hasn't been mentioned before. I'd also like to say I think it's scummy to think everyone is town, because it comes from a mafia mindset. They know everyone is town, so it's hard to come up with convincing fake reasoning for why you believe they're actually not town. Whereas a townie is always suspicious, constantly envisioning scenarios in which anyone could be scum. I know this, from when I've done in-depth analysis (especially on late game situations where the stakes are highest) that a townie can convince themselves anyone is scum. It's what made kennigit v1's "26 scum leans" line so poignant.

All this to say it seems like al is coming at this game from the perspective of a member of the mafia. vote: al sipsclar

 

[Al Sipsclar]

He gives a big list of reads, but never tells us why he's read anybody that way, then votes for one of them without much reasoning.

Choxorn, would you be more satisfied, if I wrote something like

I've had some strong scum vibes coming from him

or

I got neutral-to-slight-scum from ...

or

Acted pretty townie

in my reads?

If I put someone in the town pile that means I think they "acted pretty townie", and if I put someone under the "Scum", that means I get some "scum vibes" from them. And of course, I'm going to vote those who I think are scummy. Restating the obvious dilutes the substance.

I'm rather mediocre at analysis, so an ordered list of leans is the MOST anyone should expect from me. When I can put my finger on something of note, I add that to the reasons, but usually it is just my impressions.

 

[Zack]

Cuthillius and newyn should not be colored blue

 

[Al Sipsclar]

Roleblock or protection is my guess. Someone was lucky.

Arakhor was a commuter, that's not a very common role. With the number of people in the game we can have all kinds of roles that negate a night kill.

I'd love to discuss strategies that would allow us to use the power roles more efficiently without private communication. I hope we have a tracker or a watcher. If they get "interesting" results, they should claim. Hopefully, they'll get protection next night.

I realllllly don't like this post, especially the last paragraph- it gives me the impression he's trying to fish for the town power roles without looking like he's trying to fish for the town power roles.

I like that role fishing post you dug up on al sips, chox. Don't know how that hasn't been mentioned before. I'd also like to say I think it's scummy to think everyone is town, because it comes from a mafia mindset. They know everyone is town, so it's hard to come up with convincing fake reasoning for why you believe they're actually not town. Whereas a townie is always suspicious, constantly envisioning scenarios in which anyone could be scum. I know this, from when I've done in-depth analysis (especially on late game situations where the stakes are highest) that a townie can convince themselves anyone is scum. It's what made kennigit v1's "26 scum leans" line so poignant.

All this to say it seems like al is coming at this game from the perspective of a member of the mafia. vote: al sipsclar

Well, think what you like, but I do believe that the town could play its strong hand, if a strategy involving power roles is chosen. For example, http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Follow_the_Cop

 

[Zack]

First time I've seen someone so transparently advocate blindly following power roles over analysis

 

[Zack]

And fwiw I don't care how effective follow the cop is, because it's boring.