Aspiring Rapper's MAFIA- Game Thread

[Kennigit]

vote: cass_

have to get a vote in at least on my end

 

[choxorn]

That's two people who apparently don't pay any attention to what the host says.

I want to say that the scum would be paying more attention than that, but maybe Auto's scum and just really wanted any reason he could to vote Glossy.

What's the tally right now?

 

[Zack]

It doesn't have to be a cop. A tracker or watcher would do nicely. That's why I wanted a discussion.

In a game as vanilla as this, a tracker is not much different from a cop. Trackers and watchers don't really make sense as roles in a game that's so close to vanilla.

Your original request was so pointless, in any case. Obviously if someone gets night results that implicate someone, they are going to try and use that information, so I'm not sure what exactly you were even trying to achieve. You've admitted to asking power roles to reveal themselves and wanting the town to blindly follow them - I don't understand why you would do that as a townie. It makes more sense if you're a godfather role (or some type of scum role with protections against tracking/watching stuff) that wants to set town on a path that discourages independent thought/analysis and never leads to your lynch. Or if you're a generic scum just trying to root out power roles; Arakhor said his Role PM implied the mafia had ways to counter his ability, so it makes sense that the mafia would be interested in finding certain roles.

yes, which I have not looked at each kill but I did propose that pouter and Kennigit 1.0 was a targeted kill because of multiple accusations of glossy and cass--whether that is as a bait or because cass or glossy is scum, I don't know. I still might assume jarrema was killed because iirc jarrema kept on saying in the thread "oh I know what role you seem to be claiming arakhor" for whatever reason.

I don't see it. Pouter and Kennigit v1 voiced suspicions of lots of people, and Pouter especially did not give much weight to emphasize glossy/cass as scumreads. I think it's weird you're singling out a Pouter kill as implicating glossy/cass but not any of the other people he gave equal or stronger scum leans on.

I know Newyn/me is not confirmed but it is confirmed from my perspective. I am happy to see color codes where Newyn/me is colored red, considering how hard I am coming down on glossy the info you should glean is Kennigit/Glossy are very unlikely to be wolf/wolf.

It's in bad faith to do that in your vote analysis. You keep harping on the fact that a bunch of confirmed townies voted glossy on d1, and coloring yourself/Newyn (who was part of that group voting glossy) as confirmed town when you're not is a misleading way to make that point seem more poignant.

I'm fine with vote:BackwardsLogic. It's a little weird that Kennigit popped up out of nowhere, but he seems to be posting in a townie way.

I'm going to have to reassess this bigtime. This is a really weird game and the scum team has been doing a decent job.

Vote:Al Sipsclar

You changed your vote so suddenly with no reason given. As choxorn pointed out, you haven't given reasons for any of your votes this phase. There was some talk of Kennigit being suspicious, so you "vote:Kennigit" with no explanation. Then there was talk of BL being suspicious, so you "vote:BackwardsLogic" with no explanation. Finally, there was talk of Al Sipsclar being suspicious, so you "vote:Al Sipsclar" with no explanation.

It's just so lazy and so at odds with your earlier behavior.

 

[Glossysushi]

Zack is town again. Kenniget v. 2 is strange, as well as King Morgan v. 2

Cass's absence is null.

Choxorn looking good, I think. Except I don't like how he assumes I must be town irt the post about Auto scum just really wanting to lynch me.

Auto, please actually do entertain my question about the Iliad and answer it, even if it's off topic.

 

[Backwards Logic]

Sorry for lack of posting. Real life has been busy with work and haven't had any time to sit down and dig into things. In fact, the hammer had been reached for Lassie before I even saw it.

I find it interesting the guy who posts a billion times a minute strongest lead is Visor's read on me back on day one. I'm not entirely sure what to make of this: on one hand he's clearly been active, but if that's the best he has what has he been doing? If he want to lynch me on my meta play of laying low as scum, fine, but at least say so and state that's his strongest lead. I almost get the sense he's trying to look townie with all of the posting/innocuous question asking but are too afraid to stick his own neck out on an original case. He uses a ton of hitchhiking Visor's reads to make his 'case.'

vote: glossy

Others I'd look at:

landlubber: his defense of me pinged me when others scoffed at my large post. Why defend me the way he has? Trying to grab fake townie points if/when I'm lynched? Also the reasoning for tacking onto the Lassie vote yesterday seemed very forced, like, "I'm bandwagoning here, but I better say something townie that doesn't look like I'm bandwagoning."

edse: Fake activity with the Zack post/accusation on D1 and really nothing more. Flinched on the Cuth accusation (post804), or could be read as forced distancing between the two.

Cuth: The flip-flopping votes with no reason and the 'oops I hammered' post. It only would have taken a quick second to count the Lassie votes, but instead carelessly voted Lassie to finish him off (he needed to vote, he says...). Zack already hit on it, but it's like your vote goes in whichever direction the wind is blowing. Post 1914 to me is interesting: States multiple of Auto/chox/murska/Lassie is scum, yet has not done anything since to dig further/push that line of reasoning. In fact, he's been suspicious of choxorn since at least post 1289, yet still there's no follow-up. That's a long time not to push a case. Are the bandwagon cases really better than your own reads?

My gut says one of Cuth/edse is scum, leaning more towards Cuth atm though could envision a scenario where both are.

Long day at work tomorrow, then perhaps I'll have time to follow up.

 

[choxorn]

I was just speculating what Auto might be thinking if he was scum trying to come up with a reason to lynch you. I wasn't assuming it had to be true. Hell, I wasn't even assuming you had to be town if Auto was trying to come up with a reason to vote you, maybe you're scumbuddies and he wants a crap reason to distance himself from you with a vote.

 

[Al Sipsclar]

Your original request was so pointless, in any case. Obviously if someone gets night results that implicate someone, they are going to try and use that information, so I'm not sure what exactly you were even trying to achieve. You've admitted to asking power roles to reveal themselves and wanting the town to blindly follow them - I don't understand why you would do that as a townie. It makes more sense if you're a godfather role (or some type of scum role with protections against tracking/watching stuff) that wants to set town on a path that discourages independent thought/analysis and never leads to your lynch. Or if you're a generic scum just trying to root out power roles; Arakhor said his Role PM implied the mafia had ways to counter his ability, so it makes sense that the mafia would be interested in finding certain roles.

Zack, do you have any other adjectives that don't end in '-less'? Basically, the whole game you're shutting down everyone ideas by saying they are meaningless or pointless.

For what exactly I was trying to achieve, see Visor's "Rise of the Snake Cult" game on The .Org. That game was also without private communications, and there Winston was a tracker, and he was instrumental in lynching at least one scum and clearing at least one townie.

And there's nothing wrong with rolefishing. As Snerk likes to say, it's the name of the game. I've been always rolefishing, see Red Dwarf and NSP3, for example.

Well, if you want to follow a town PR, you can follow me. I don't currently have mechanical information, however.

Vote: Al Sipsclar. Seriously, we've tried to lynch him a lot of times, it always fizzles out and he is still just a scummy as he was on day one.

I'm always "Generally Recognized As Scummy." This is not indicative of alignment for me. You, of all people, should remember that from Red Dwarf, again.

 

[BSmith1068]

bsmith
- I like his attitude on Arakhor in #1219. Mirrors my own exactly.
- 'Takes BL's lead' when voting for me. *shrug* Okay.
- Switches vote to Mat for counterwagon while continuing to claim that Lassie is very suspicious. The day ends in Mat, a Townie, being lynched over Lassie. What is this even?
- Post 1774 is lazy and useless. Claims to vote on me due to BL's prompt, though the whole thing was based on Lassie being suspicious (Lassie, whom bsmith saved by voting for Mat instead) and me having defended him...
Slightly scummy.

Turns out both Mat and Lassie were innocent… so that is basically a null tell at this point. I wasn’t “saving” anybody. My vote on you was not lazy, though it may have been useless as no one followed. It was a continuation of my Arakhor vote analysis. I still think we have at least one scum on that list. If it isn’t you, and it isn’t me, who do you think it is? These are the other options:

- Zack
- Choxorn
- Xym (KM2)

From the rest of your analysis in the above post, looks like vote: choxorn would be your pick. I’m willing to go down that road today.

Zack is trending scummier for me. I have had him town most of the game, but his potentially defensive response to my Arakhor list combined with the fact that he is still alive even after most of the players have considered him town for a lot of the game is certainly worrisome. I would have expected the mafia to have attempted to kill him by now, and that hasn’t happened.

this is a lamer thought i have ever seen you post Bsmith. Because I don't think you really believe that. Maybe you do, but does a scum team relatively untouched needs to worry about lynch bait?

A good scum team never rests on its laurels. It is always looking for ways to set up a lynch in later rounds. It is always prioritizing kills to eliminate threats to itself, while balancing against making obvious linking mistakes, etc. When given the opportunity it will always pick someone they know will not be lynched over someone they think may get lynched. It makes no sense to kill someone that you can get the town to kill for you (which is why the lack of a Zack kill is interesting to me). I can’t believe that you would think this is lame.

Sorry for lack of posting. Real life has been busy with work and haven't had any time to sit down and dig into things. In fact, the hammer had been reached for Lassie before I even saw it.

I find it interesting the guy who posts a billion times a minute strongest lead is Visor's read on me back on day one. I'm not entirely sure what to make of this: on one hand he's clearly been active, but if that's the best he has what has he been doing? If he want to lynch me on my meta play of laying low as scum, fine, but at least say so and state that's his strongest lead. I almost get the sense he's trying to look townie with all of the posting/innocuous question asking but are too afraid to stick his own neck out on an original case. He uses a ton of hitchhiking Visor's reads to make his 'case.'

vote: glossy

Others I'd look at:

landlubber: his defense of me pinged me when others scoffed at my large post. Why defend me the way he has? Trying to grab fake townie points if/when I'm lynched? Also the reasoning for tacking onto the Lassie vote yesterday seemed very forced, like, "I'm bandwagoning here, but I better say something townie that doesn't look like I'm bandwagoning."

edse: Fake activity with the Zack post/accusation on D1 and really nothing more. Flinched on the Cuth accusation (post804), or could be read as forced distancing between the two.

Cuth: The flip-flopping votes with no reason and the 'oops I hammered' post. It only would have taken a quick second to count the Lassie votes, but instead carelessly voted Lassie to finish him off (he needed to vote, he says...). Zack already hit on it, but it's like your vote goes in whichever direction the wind is blowing. Post 1914 to me is interesting: States multiple of Auto/chox/murska/Lassie is scum, yet has not done anything since to dig further/push that line of reasoning. In fact, he's been suspicious of choxorn since at least post 1289, yet still there's no follow-up. That's a long time not to push a case. Are the bandwagon cases really better than your own reads?

My gut says one of Cuth/edse is scum, leaning more towards Cuth atm though could envision a scenario where both are.

Long day at work tomorrow, then perhaps I'll have time to follow up.

BL has shown up right on schedule to not seem too absent, provide just enough analysis to avoid further suspicion, and even puts in the declaimer that we are not to see much more from him for a while. This is BL’s scum meta. If not being pressured, do as little as possible to stir the waters, yet stay just active and helpful enough to seem like he is contributing.

 

[Cass_]

Here and catching up.

I think this is right, correct me if I'm wrong:

Choxorn votes Kennigit
Cuth votes Kennigit
Glossy votes BL
Al Sips votes Landlubber
Zack votes Al Sips
Cuth unvotes votes BL
Murska votes Al Sips
Cuth unvotes votes Al Sips
Autolycus votes Glossy
Kennigit votes Cass
BL votes Glossy



Kennigit: Choxorn, Cuthillius
BackwardsLogic: Glossy, Cuthillius
Landlubber: Al Sips
Al Sips: Zack, Murska, Cuthillius
Glossysushi: Autolycus, Backwards Logic
Cass: Kennigit

 

[Cuthillius]

I am following murska at the moment

before i wanted to test sushi

i've said ken was scummy

but i also said his posting looked good today so i was willing to test something else

 

[Autolycus]

He was mod-banned from posting that day for night-posting the previous day. He didn't vote because he couldn't.

Right, I remembered that at the time. unvote:glossysushi
@glossysushi, that is indeed the source of my name.

Vote:Al Sipsclar He's been hovering at number 2 or 3 on my list for quite a while, so I want an answer

Cuth's voteflipping also feels scummy to me, but I don't want a close vote that scum can shift.

 

[Kennigit]

Zack, i think it was weirder you specifically left out pouter's suspicions of glossy/cass when you responded to glossysushi beginning day 2, especially since he voted glossy at least (i quoted that a few posts ago)

But seeing as I was Kennigit 1.0 i can say with confidence i purposefully limited my scum reads, besides my mostly joke about 26 scum leans (though i will rarely clear people as town)

I have never reviewed al sipsclar's posts, from the vote tally i posted he would be equivalent of murska to me.

My reluctance is we probably need 3 out of the next 4 lynches and i dont exactly see who al sips ties to, perhaps others can help


@bsmith: i dont think there seems to be much of a reasonfor takhisis kill in particular, i mean everyone said takhisis wasnt reading as town or as scum. The scum's behavior seems to ge a mix-and-match between why they have killed who they have killed

 

[Kennigit]

I guess if lassie was selected as lynch bait one might expect the scum to either readily join in a town buy in (tail end voters, lohr autolycus cuthillius) or propose it quickly since they'd think it was town (front end voters zack glossy murska choxorn)

I forget why glossy unvoted and revoted. May have been antsy if town didnt bite

 

[Al Sipsclar]

Vote: Zack. Here's why.

Expanding on what BSmith said, you've been pushing to lynch townies, tunneling on Lassie, and sabotaging any scumhunting effort by town. This is all evident in the thread.

The part that is not in the thread is what I was doing every night. I am the 2nd Doctor (though I prefer the 10th Doctor more). I have been protecting Zack every night, N1-N4. I got very excited when there was only one kill on N2 - maybe I saved a consensus townie from a kill! However, that excitement quickly faded away after Mat93 was lynched.

If there was a failed attempt on Zack's life on N2, would the scum try again and kill him after they learned that a Doctor was lynched? However, they decided they needed to kill KM, Tak, G1K, and Sooh instead. Zack was never their choice! This is why I'm convinced Zack is scum.

Sorry, town, I failed you by following a false leader. GL. If it helps anyone, here's a spreadsheet I've been keeping. Didn't help me for sure.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wl0ddjTbnmVIcZ1TQM2V9JafgsQ-pDjoFcI7UjiP-Cc/edit?usp=sharing

ATPG, please no rap or '90s pop on my funeral. Only classic rock. 'Cause I'm as free as a bird now. And this bird you cannot change. [fades into a 30-min guitar solo]

 

[Cass_]

Thoughts from quick, bleary-eyed catch up of this and previous phase:

Agreed with Sooh that Sushi-Lassie interactions seemed like distancing, am backtracking now slightly on my read of Sushi after Lassie's flip - need to re-read DM games but the flippant 'bored' attitude and several of her questions yesterday stood out as does refusing to try and make her own reads at this point in the game. Need to look closer at Sooh's last reads.

@Glossy
1) All my thoughts on Legato were given earlier, why did you ask me for them now?
2) Why were you so quick to defend my absence as null?


Zack - I have some issue with his increase in aggression, explanation of switch to Mat and Lassie push gave me slightly bad vibes. I don't think there's been a reads for quite a while? Just get the feeling he's pushing everyone down?

Bsmith's
Kenningit seems to actually be analysing/doing some decent search work/active in the conversations going on. Case on me is strange, as was the misunderstanding wrt Sushi at the beginning of the round.

Cuth's hammer/today's voting pattern/sheeping Murska is weird.
Cuth - Why follow anyone/Murska? What are your own reads and thoughts right now?

Choxorn's vote on 'narrowly more scummy' Kenningit - without push/questioning of his other suspects (Al Sips, Cuth) bothers me.

I like that Al Sips posted reads but still don't feel like he's playing the same sort of game as in Snakes.

granted Pouter had various flips, but I think he had to be onto something heavily. Visor posted day 2 he thought Kennigit 1.0 and Pouter were widely read as town and killed for that reason, but I am not so sure....

Spoiler :

Like 5 or 6 posts implicating Cass, some votes on Glossysushi from the two of us.

Some soft pressures on Choxorn and Al Sipsclar by pouter, and Pouter was pretty right about the other townies (Newyn--now me, Lassie, Visorslash).

Whether that was a frame job on cass that never even got picked up by townies ("let's kill the two people who talked the most about cass, see if the town will lynch them")


And who were the posters that immediately talked about Pouter and mine leans (atlhough glossy made a mistake)

Glossy:

And zack (LEAVING OUT CASS AND GLOSSY LEANS):


I'm telling you, all roads lead to cass and sushi man, or cass and zack, something like that. I can't quite put my finger on it

You're wrong on me, probably why it's difficult to put your finger on it
IIRC Pouter ended up looking at my case and swapping to Chox, not sure if that makes a difference in your analysis at all.

what a hilariously ridiculous question. Why wouldn't I be suspicious of them? I mean I know we can't follow what everyone says this game because of the volume of posts, but Zack has lynched a townie every single day (post 1489 last vote day 2, on visor, as far as I can tell) and Cass_ I have way wayy back voted my immediate suspicion of him for being extremely slow to make an updated vote despite posting a lot (worded here) and more easily traced here



BUT, the actually ridiculousness of this question is why did you ask about Zack and Cass? Why not ask "Kennigit, please list your reasons" because I literally have not given anything about why Lohr or why choxorn, or autolycus for that matter [though no one is going to debate that autolycus hasn't done much].

That's independent of whether you are town or scum glossy, why even ask about a subset of my list?


from the votes I forgot choxorn had a wagon on him day 1 [attempted CFD]. IIRC glossy and lassie and cuthillius were posting around then. So it would be pretty gutsy to try a CFD on a teammate, given a power role claim of arakhor, so it is unlikely the 5-man list i posted could be together. I think that list working ALL together mutually is too unlikely.

Idk, no strong feelings either way. I'm not feeling very confident in any reads atm, considering how egregiously wrong I've been every time. Beginning to suspect that a significant portion of the mafia are lurkers - all lynches and attention have been on people who were pretty active in the thread, which the mafia seem to be content with (judging by who they've left alive).

Kennigit, can you give a list of current leans?; and
explain what you mean by the bold pls? Seems like PIS to me - how else do you know who's be 'left alive' v who's scum?

Turns out both Mat and Lassie were innocent… so that is basically a null tell at this point. I wasn’t “saving” anybody. My vote on you was not lazy, though it may have been useless as no one followed. It was a continuation of my Arakhor vote analysis. I still think we have at least one scum on that list. If it isn’t you, and it isn’t me, who do you think it is? These are the other options:

- Zack
- Choxorn
- Xym (KM2)

From the rest of your analysis in the above post, looks like vote: choxorn would be your pick. I’m willing to go down that road today.

Zack is trending scummier for me. I have had him town most of the game, but his potentially defensive response to my Arakhor list combined with the fact that he is still alive even after most of the players have considered him town for a lot of the game is certainly worrisome. I would have expected the mafia to have attempted to kill him by now, and that hasn’t happened.

A good scum team never rests on its laurels. It is always looking for ways to set up a lynch in later rounds. It is always prioritizing kills to eliminate threats to itself, while balancing against making obvious linking mistakes, etc. When given the opportunity it will always pick someone they know will not be lynched over someone they think may get lynched. It makes no sense to kill someone that you can get the town to kill for you (which is why the lack of a Zack kill is interesting to me). I can’t believe that you would think this is lame.

BL has shown up right on schedule to not seem too absent, provide just enough analysis to avoid further suspicion, and even puts in the declaimer that we are not to see much more from him for a while. This is BL’s scum meta. If not being pressured, do as little as possible to stir the waters, yet stay just active and helpful enough to seem like he is contributing.

Bsmith - how sure are you of BL's scum meta? If you think he's scum, why is Choxorn a better vote?

 

[Kennigit]

I dont need like 7 more people pointing out i mistook glossy's mod silence as an injury. I dont see why you point to that as if it discredits my lean on you

 

[Kennigit]

Leans:

Auto - town (earlier was in my suspects). Probably townie who hasnt read thread
Me - town

Rest: possible scums, depends on who they can be paired with. Really doubt lohr/cass combo as wolf/wolf though

Lean townier bsmith atm

 

[KingMorgan]

Who is up for lynching Vote:Zack then?

 

[Cass_]

Vote: Zack. Here's why.

Expanding on what BSmith said, you've been pushing to lynch townies, tunneling on Lassie, and sabotaging any scumhunting effort by town. This is all evident in the thread.

The part that is not in the thread is what I was doing every night. I am the 2nd Doctor (though I prefer the 10th Doctor more). I have been protecting Zack every night, N1-N4. I got very excited when there was only one kill on N2 - maybe I saved a consensus townie from a kill! However, that excitement quickly faded away after Mat93 was lynched.

If there was a failed attempt on Zack's life on N2, would the scum try again and kill him after they learned that a Doctor was lynched? However, they decided they needed to kill KM, Tak, G1K, and Sooh instead. Zack was never their choice! This is why I'm convinced Zack is scum.

Sorry, town, I failed you by following a false leader. GL. If it helps anyone, here's a spreadsheet I've been keeping. Didn't help me for sure.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wl0ddjTbnmVIcZ1TQM2V9JafgsQ-pDjoFcI7UjiP-Cc/edit?usp=sharing

ATPG, please no rap or '90s pop on my funeral. Only classic rock. 'Cause I'm as free as a bird now. And this bird you cannot change. [fades into a 30-min guitar solo]

I'm not sure what to make of this. If we're really at LYLO scum would have nothing to lose and everything to gain by claiming PR to escape the noose and lynch somebody else. Do we lynch neither Sips or Zack this turn?

 

[Cass_]

I dont need like 7 more people pointing out i mistook glossy's mod silence as an injury. I dont see why you point to that as if it discredits my lean on you

Not that it discredits your lean on me - the two are separate issues in my mind.

The lean on me is suspect because I know I'm Town.

I found it strange that you mistook Glossy's situation, and think that it could be possible distancing if one of you flips scum.