Atheists: Apostate vs Non-Apostate

It allows for at least 4 possible options:

Agnostic atheist, agnostic theist, gnostic atheist, gnostic theist.

So there you go. White, gray, grayer, and black. That's ignoring other possible points of classification he could have gone with, as well. So I think you're the one who is making it a black and white affair.
As I already stated quite clearly numerous times, I am completely familiar with this extremely black and white pigeonholing system and I prefer my far more nuanced one. YMMV.

Furthermore, it is quite clear which of these pigeonholes I would actually be in given that Ziggy actually mentioned it long ago, and it certainly isn't the one that TF put me into.

And the last sentence is sheer nonsense.
 
This comes from one of mine favorite spiritual writers I wonder what you guys think about it:
"Atheism is necessary protest against the wickedness of the Churches and the narrowness of the creeds. God uses it as a stone to smash these soiled card houses."

Another one:
"How much hatred and stupidity men succeed in packing up decorously and labeling "Religion"!"



This gives me an idea how stupid actualy I am by thinking that everybody would be better of by having the same kind of view as me! But I guess we all suffer from this problem...
 
I was raised as a Southern Baptist. That's the sect that split with the other Baptists in the 1800's because they thought the bible justified slavery while the 'northern' Baptists didn't.

A defining theme of my religious upbringing was fear. I was scared to death of hell and the imaginary consequences of the disbelief I secretly harbored. As a kindergartener in a Baptist school, I remember picking a fight with our teacher over how the universe came into existence. Discovery Channel was a new thing and there had been some show on that explained the big bang. Not that I understood the concept entirely, but I accepted it as fact more readily than the 'let there be light' version.

I shared my thoughts on the matter with the teacher and argued with her to the point that I was separated from the rest of the class that day and was nearly permanently removed from the kindergarten. I remember the teacher wispering to her assistant that I was on a path to hell at such a young age.

Similarly, I heard the resurrection story and it just never made sense. I tried so hard to believe it; I wanted to desperately because I wished to avoid hell. I had some pretty strong cognitive disonance going on for most of my teen years as I struggled with my doubts on the matter. I was baptized not really because I believed in my heart of hearts, but 'just in case'.

Fear dominated my mind and my indecision. I knew it was nonsense but an eternity of hell is nothing trivial to risk. It was when I finally had the thought 'If I just don't believe for a day, if I just deny the Lord's existence for a day and nothing happens, maybe, just maybe it is a fairytale.' I lived through that day and never looked back. My life has actually been much happier since then for other reasons, but this tends to reinforce my disbelief.

Fear of hell kept chains on my mind and did far more damage to it than many other horrible things I've endured. Fear chained my wife to faith as well. I remember how upset she was when I pointed out how Christianity started as a cult that was seen as outlandish as Scientology and that someday, just maybe Scientology would replace it. She had the same doubts and fears as myself and my example unsettled her.

I took her to see Religulous and we both thought it would upset her. But something in the absurdity of the things in the movie broke the chains for her. We've lived as happy little athiests ever since.

In conclusion, I believe that the defining difference between a religious and an athiest upbringing is the lack of fear the latter enjoys.

BTW - I always tell my athiest club buddies that I'm a devout athiest and that I know there is no god with certainty. I do this not because I actually do know this with certainty, but because the kind of silly semantic arguments they love to get in over essentially identical words and concepts are just too easy to troll. I see a lot of this in this thread;)
 
Are you talking about Religious Atheists or Irreligious Atheists because I subscribe to Christian Atheism.
 
Apostates tend to be much more vocal in their disbelief, at least in my experience.
I've never been religious and I usually only respond to it with hostility when it's being hostile itself.
This comes from one of mine favorite spiritual writers I wonder what you guys think about it:
"Atheism is necessary protest against the wickedness of the Churches and the narrowness of the creeds. God uses it as a stone to smash these soiled card houses."
Sounds like someone trying to make apologies for people who don't want or need them. Although I do find it amusing that some people out there apparently think of us as some kind of God-sent antiheroes that exist to keep the True Believers™ honest.
 
Sounds like someone trying to make apologies for people who don't want or need them. Although I do find it amusing that some people out there apparently think of us as some kind of God-sent antiheroes that exist to keep the True Believers™ honest.

Ah, that's why God never spoke to me. It's my divine duty to reveal the false prophets.

No guys it just means that God is much more than something that can be put in one book. Somebody who can think much further beyond the span of one human life. And no matter what you do one ends up as its instrument. Quite good design!

Btw Ziggy keep up the good work! To be more on point I would say that as atheist if you stick to moral and humanistic values by your good life you will be able to put the challenge/mirror to the life of currupted church. I know its a drop but its the drops which make the ocean.
 
No guys it just means that God is much more than something that can be put in one book. Somebody who can think much further beyond the span of one human life. And no matter what you do one ends up as its instrument. Quite good design!
What? I mean what? Do you mean this?

So, here follows a long list
of nasty people, all these are doing God's work?
 
There isn't evidence for an infinite number of things. Why should I get passionate about me not believing in any of them?

oFpoM.jpg
 
No guys it just means that God is much more than something that can be put in one book. Somebody who can think much further beyond the span of one human life. And no matter what you do one ends up as its instrument. Quite good design!
.

lol wut? ahem, what about the bible?
 
"Atheism is necessary protest against the wickedness of the Churches and the narrowness of the creeds. God uses it as a stone to smash these soiled card houses."

If I am wrong and God turns out to be real this is literally the coolest possible scenario. I would accept that sort of duty with pride. :devil:
 
lol wut? ahem, what about the bible?

I dont want to pick up on any religion but if you ever thought that Bible has everthing in it you have been brainwashed clean.
 
If I am wrong and God turns out to be real this is literally the coolest possible scenario. I would accept that sort of duty with pride. :devil:

See Gawd luws ja. Giving you the job you want...
 
What? I mean what? Do you mean this?

So, here follows a long list
of nasty people, all these are doing God's work?

No matter what God will use it to further his plan. I am not justifying any evil (most atheist here are perfectly nice people) but there is reason for suffering and someone got to do the dirty work (too bad its quite often the religious followers who end up doing that)
 
No matter what God will use it to further his plan. I am not justifying any evil (most atheist here are perfectly nice people) but there is reason for suffering and someone got to do the dirty work (too bad its quite often the religious followers who end up doing that)

Well, who knows? Not me, for sure.

Ian Brady (in the news again), the guy who murdered a number of children, 50 years ago and has been in psychiatric prison ever since; he's employed by God, is he?
 
If God is real then he invented atheism. That's an amusing thought, at least for me.
 
I dont want to pick up on any religion but if you ever thought that Bible has everthing in it you have been brainwashed clean.

No I don't, but that seems to be the consensus for many evangelicals and other very conservative Christians.
 
Well, who knows? Not me, for sure.

Ian Brady (in the news again), the guy who murdered a number of children, 50 years ago and has been in psychiatric prison ever since; he's employed by God, is he?

this of course extremely though to understand- such unthinkable violance. but our problem is that we think all from human point of view which is bound to be inaccurate or false. look what humans do to animals. yet we call ourselves evolved and pride ourselfs in humanism. slaughtering children or chicken. give the hen our level thinking and emphaty and see what it will have to say about humans. the issue is more complex and in my wiev it points to something which far transceds suffering or death.
 
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