Atheists: Apostate vs Non-Apostate

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Sounds like a poorly thought out ontological argument to me.

What? I mean, whats ontological about it?

Edit: Here the premise is not existence of God but existence of thought. Just becouse you are in position to imagine (think of) reality greater than yourself (call it God if you wish) that means that that reality does exist in some form.

 

[AlpsStranger]

"I don't know if there is a God", is a rather different statement from "there is a God, but I don't believe in him".

I don't think anyone is saying that.

Misotheism is probably the closest to that idea and I don't think it's very common.

 

[WindFish]

Now that's interesting. What do you mean by "Christian Atheism?" Do you go to church and what not or just generally try to live your life in accord with Jesus' teachings?

The second one. I think Jesus had some good ideas that are worth following and I don't really like the fact that people such as Mobboss have twisted Jesus's teaching into hate.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The second one. I think Jesus had some good ideas that are worth following and I don't really like the fact that people such as Mobboss have twisted Jesus's teaching into hate.

I'm having my Atheistic Hypothetical Theism thread re-opened (Insha Moderators).

I wonder how you feel about that concept.

In the mean time, here's the link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422051

 

[Lone Wolf]

Apocalyptic Jewish Prophets FTW.

 

[timtofly]

Atheism does not mean a belief in the non-existence of god, it means a lack of belief in the existence of god. "A-theism", without theism.


Have you actually read anything I've written in this thread?


what.

If that were the case, why do some athiest here say they believe there is no God. Belief in this case is accepting a fact. Not trusting in a fact. I understand that athiest do not trust in the non-existence of God, they just accept that there is no God. Theist generally do not trust in a God, they just believe (accept) there is one. The term Athiest has stuck, because A-deist would be the more correct term IMO.

Athiest and Theist do revolve around belief even if one is a lack thereof, since theism does not adhere to knowledge of a God, but a belief that gods may exist.

"I don't know if there is a God", is a rather different statement from "there is a God, but I don't believe in him".

That is why Form is an agnostic without any belief system.

I don't think anyone is saying that.

Misotheism is probably the closest to that idea and I don't think it's very common.

If one hates the Gods, does that not imply there has to be something to hate?

 

[Traitorfish]

"I don't know if there is a God", is a rather different statement from "there is a God, but I don't believe in him".

...Is that actually a thing?

If that were the case, why do some athiest here say they believe there is no God. Belief in this case is accepting a fact. Not trusting in a fact. I understand that athiest do not trust in the non-existence of God, they just accept that there is no God. Theist generally do not trust in a God, they just believe (accept) there is one. The term Athiest has stuck, because A-deist would be the more correct term IMO.

Athiest and Theist do revolve around belief even if one is a lack thereof, since theism does not adhere to knowledge of a God, but a belief that gods may exist.

This is really an elaborate word game rather than any sort of argument, so I'll just repeat the original point: a person who believes that there is such a being as "god" is a theist. A person who lacks this belief, who is without theism, is an a-theist. An atheist may assert the non-existence of god, but that is not what makes them an atheist.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

@timtofly: thats right atheist doesnt need faith to determine if there is "god" (unless he has religious background which is somewhat hanging down on him), simple absence of it (in this regard) and presence of faith in himself is sufficient.

 

[AlpsStranger]

If one hates the Gods, does that not imply there has to be something to hate?

Well, yes for a Misotheist. But I think one can be a "Misoatheist," strictly speaking.

You can hate the idea of God and hate the consequences of belief in God without believing he exists.

However, if you actually hate God then you are not an atheist.

presence of faith in himself is sufficient.

I don't really think I have "faith" in myself. In fact, I'm quite disturbed by how sketchy the machinery of the human mind actually is. I could be wrong about just about anything!

If you like to have faith that your mind is some kind of Platonic perfect thinking machine then avoid reading about split brains and stuff like that.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm not particularly convinced that I actually exist from moment to moment, so I really can't say that I have much "faith" in myself.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

I don't really think I have "faith" in myself. In fact, I'm quite disturbed by how sketchy the machinery of the human mind actually is. I could be wrong about just about anything!

If you like to have faith that your mind is some kind of Platonic perfect thinking machine then avoid reading about split brains and stuff like that.

I'm not particularly convinced that I actually exist from moment to moment, so I really can't say that I have much "faith" in myself.

I didnt mean faith in oneself which replaces faith in God as some form of ultimate power but rather basic faith in ones life and its fulfilment.
On the other hand somebody who is not satisfied with his life and wants to change it for something more harmonious and fulfiling will need faith in something greater then his present life. In something from within himself(higher self) or faith in "God".
This just reflects the fact that no matter what one believes faith is indispensable.

 

[Traitorfish]

I don't really know what you mean by "faith", in this usage.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Assurance? When you have faith in some power, yours or others, you feel assured.

 

[Traitorfish]

So why say "faith"?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

So why say "faith"?

Inner assurance is just one aspect of faith.

 

[Traitorfish]

Then we're back to me not knowing what you mean when you say "faith".

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Then we're back to me not knowing what you mean when you say "faith".

Lets switch. What would be your definition?

 

[timtofly]

Can faith be concrete or always in that state of "unknown"?

 

[Masada]

...Is that actually a thing?

You seem to be suggesting that Formy is in the latter camp.

 

[Ayatollah So]

So, I was raised Catholic, but not to the same extent as many others who were. When I was young I pretty much accepted what I was told but I didn't much understand it. Now I'm an unbeliever. Am I an apostate or not? I doubt the question has a yes or no answer.

Some apostates, but not all, seem to go from one extreme to the "other" - yet in many ways the same - extreme. The God they disbelieve is the exact same God they used to believe in, and all the other variations on religious themes are completely out of sight and out of mind. All black-and-white thinkers looks pretty much the same to me. (There are two kinds of people, black-and-white thinkers, and ... )