Best Dwarf Origin Myth Ever

[thomas.berubeg]

Maybe it is hard to read because you only have one of them?

BTW, you can compare anything, especially two books, of the same genre, by the same author, set in the same universe.

I'm not saying LotR is bad by any means. In fact, I think it is the best book ever written if you want to know the truth (hell, my usual handle is "Cuivienen," but it was already taken when I signed up here). All I'm saying is the Hobbit is more cohesive and better written, hence your "light" comment. LotR is much more complex, and I prefer complex, but the writing itself suffers a little because of that.

Also, the Silmarillion isn't a true novel. It is really a collection of notes and short stories detailing the history behind LotR (it is really not about the Silmarils). You don't read it per se, so much as read passages within it.

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way, here... i was just clearing it up for the others out there...

About Les miserable, i am just about to finish the second book.

Actually i disagree with you that the hobbit is more well written (unlike that) than the hobbit...

 

[Celeborn]

Hmmm...

*Looks at his name and the tree in his avatar*


Yeah... One guess on my stance on the works of JRR Tolkien


Oh and Silmarillion = History Book of a Fantasy World, not a novel really.


And like said before, if you want a more light-hearted fantasy, then Pratchett fer sure.

 

[Go Boks]

Actually i disagree with you that the hobbit is more well written (unlike that) than the hobbit...

Que?

BTW, it was meant to be a joke. It is "Les Miserables"

 

[evanb]

Oh and Silmarillion = History Book of a Fantasy World, not a novel really.

The same goes for The Book of Lost Tales. I particularly liked the one about Tuor's arrival in Gondolin.

They're good if one gets bored of our RL history.

Other nice Tolkien stuff: Tales from the Perilous Realm (unrelated to the LotR universe; or who knows... )

 

[Shadius]

I never figured out why people are so infatuated with Tolkien. Sure, the guy did a lot of things FIRST - especially in respects to worldbuilding - but personally, I find he couldn't tell a decent worth crap. LotR works better as a sleeping aid than as an enjoyable story to me.

He just portrays everything in so boring a fashion. It doesn't feel real or even plausible, as I think good fantasy should. Eh, well.

 

[BlazeRedSXT]

Go Boks, all I can say is, 'All the great ideas have been used... "
I think that Goodkind changes his rhythm in Temple of the winds, and thelast 2 books have been phenomenal. That said...

Shadius, I kind of agree about Tolkien. Like I said before, he is kind of the progenitor of modern fantasy, which makes him worth reading. However, from a purely literary point of view, he isn't by any means great. But if you are a young, or new reader, particularly to fantasy, its worth the read. It isn't especially sophisticated, but that shouldn't pull it from the essential read list.

Terry Prachett is pretty great. His collaboration, Good Omens, I thought was quite good, and funny.

Another set of books that I think aren't necessarily brilliant literature, but probably should be on the essential read list: The Dragonlance saga, by Weiss and Hickman.

Cheers!

 

[Lord Buck]

Anyone get into the Skystone books by Jack Wyte? I picked it up on a whim and totally fell in love. One the easiest entertaining reads I've thumbed through. Great prelude to a respectable lengthly series.

Or

Morgon LLywelyn's "Finn Mac Cool"

??

 

[Lord Buck]

On topic,

Totally my opinion and subjective - think of Tolkien like wine. If you give a kid a glass of wine he or she will most likely spit it in your face. It's nasty, sour, bitter, whatever...but then you have a few bottles and WHAMO before you know it your watching Sideways and going to France.

Firelord by Parke Godwin is the same. Both works speak for themselves and have a unique style.

I guess the real issue is can one aquire the taste? If you can't, no worries, try beer or whiskey (whisky), or a work less dependant on a spechic atiptude of reader.

Myself - I hate wine and love Tolkien, but have learned not to take either lightly.

 

[Go Boks]

Go Boks, all I can say is, 'All the great ideas have been used... "
I think that Goodkind changes his rhythm in Temple of the winds, and thelast 2 books have been phenomenal.

It has nothing to do with someone else, somewhere in time having writen a similar story. My point is his stories are all the same AS EACH OTHER. Like I said, I thought Wizard's First Rule was great, but it is all down hill from there. Maybe the more recent ones are better, but Temple of the Winds killed it for me and so I will never find out. That book was horrific and I could barely bring myself to finish it. It started, happened and ended in the exact same way as all the others, with most of the same characters and a slightly different setting. Predictable, boring and a little insulting.

I never figured out why people are so infatuated with Tolkien. Sure, the guy did a lot of things FIRST - especially in respects to worldbuilding - but personally, I find he couldn't tell a decent worth crap. LotR works better as a sleeping aid than as an enjoyable story to me.

He just portrays everything in so boring a fashion. It doesn't feel real or even plausible, as I think good fantasy should. Eh, well.

Shadius, I kind of agree about Tolkien. Like I said before, he is kind of the progenitor of modern fantasy, which makes him worth reading. However, from a purely literary point of view, he isn't by any means great. But if you are a young, or new reader, particularly to fantasy, its worth the read. It isn't especially sophisticated, but that shouldn't pull it from the essential read list.

Wow, did you two completely miss the mark... The whole point is, "from a purely literary point of view," his writing is much, much better than most others. His popularity has nothing to do with him being "first," which isn't even true. It has to do with him being an excellent writer. Most fantasy writers are terrible at what they do, and hide their inabilities behind fantastical settings and creatures that they didn't even come up with themselves. This is exactly what sets him apart. I can understand if his style is a little above your head, but come on.

 

[Shadius]

Funny.

You know; never once have I seen a Tolkien fan give valid reasons for actually liking any of Tolkien's work, and I honestly don't see how they could. His writing style is just plain tedious, and there's nothing particularly inspiring about his plot and characters. The only thing you can possibly congragulate the man on would be his setting - which I can appreciate, even though it's REALLY not my style.

I respect Tolkien for what he did for the gerne (elevating it from pulp status), but I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone could voluntarily want to read his work over and over again, or how it came to have that kind of impact in the first place.

Liking Tolkien just seems to be the "cool" thing to do; in some ways comparable to Star Wars. I never figured out what was supposed so good about that, either.

 

[Go Boks]

never once have I seen a Tolkien fan give valid reasons for actually liking any of Tolkien's work

I find that hard to believe. I reiterate my "over your head" comment...

I agree with you on Star Wars though. I like it, but it has a lot of holes (not least of which is the choice of actors for the entire Skywalker family - Luke and Leia are horrendous in the original trilogy, and Anakin is arguably worse in the new trilogy).

 

[Quetz]

Since most of what I would suggest for reading has already been taken, I'll put in the Magic of Recluse by L. E. Modesit (I forget how to spell his last name.) I guess he realized he had a winner with it since he wrote a bazillion sequels that are all basically the same, but the first is, in my opinion, definately the best, and a very unique book.

Although it isn't a direct sequel in regards to time of publishing, one of the books in the series continues the story of the main character of the first.. the Death of Chaos, I think it was called.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Myself - I hate wine and love Tolkien.

You've got that completely backwards bud

Fantasy? Gone off it recently, except Pratchett (and Neil Gaiman - Good Omens is indeed brilliant), but I don't think anything really tops Earthsea - Ursula LeGuin's wizards are great, and the 4 books form a wonderful story. Can't recommend the original trilogy enough.

The Wheel of Time is also pretty good so long as you don't mind a bit of everything taking forever to happen - start now and he might just about have reached the end by the time you catch up

 

[Lord Buck]

Funny.

You know; never once have I seen a Tolkien fan give valid reasons for actually liking any of Tolkien's work, and I honestly don't see how they could. His writing style is just plain tedious, and there's nothing particularly inspiring about his plot and characters. The only thing you can possibly congragulate the man on would be his setting - which I can appreciate, even though it's REALLY not my style.

I respect Tolkien for what he did for the gerne (elevating it from pulp status), but I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone could voluntarily want to read his work over and over again, or how it came to have that kind of impact in the first place.

Liking Tolkien just seems to be the "cool" thing to do; in some ways comparable to Star Wars. I never figured out what was supposed so good about that, either.

This comment was a little out of line. Let me be the first Tolkien fan to profess why I love Tolkien. As I said, such works as LOTR speak for themselves.

Example 1. Tolkien on the death penalty.

Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends.
J. R. R. Tolkien, The Lord Of the Rings, Book Four, Chapter One
British scholar & fantasy novelist (1892 - 1973)

Example 2. Tolkien on capitalist materialism

All that is gold does not glitter; not all those that wander are lost.
J. R. R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring, 1954
British scholar & fantasy novelist (1892 - 1973)

Example 3. Tolkien on the Puritan work ethic

It's a job that's never started that takes the longest to finish.

the list goes on and on and on...trust me..there's more famous Tolkien quotes than Goodkind, Jordan, Salvatore, or whoever put together. The writing was and is brillant - thus unique. You don't have to like it but you should respect it.

 

[Love]

The Silmarillion is required reading for those having problems falling asleep.

Worked for me, the silmarillion is required reading for those helping whith the ARDA mod, its here but no where

 

[TheJopa]

Thanks for suggestions, I'm going to check it up in the library next time I'll have some free time (Too bad place where I live has only 20.000 ppl. and therefore not too big library)

 

[BCalchet]

Well, I'll be... I was SURE I was in the off-topic thread - damn you all for confusing me like that!

Forget about this post.

 

[kenken244]

i think this thread might need to be renamed to "lets talk about fantasy books"

 

[Mithrus]

I'm practically shocked no one has mentioned Raymond E Feist's Riftwar series. I personally enjoy the original "Riftwar" and "Serpentwar" Sagas best, but all save the Krondor books are a solid read.

Another series that I've grown to enjoy is Jane Lindskold's "Firestarter" series. A Tarzan-esque plotline that never seems to grow dull.

While not strictly classic "fantasy", the Chronicles of Amber is another WELL written series (books 1-5 MUCH better then 6-10 tho).

 

[Nimai_R]

Suprised no one said Dragonlance Chronicles o.O Or maybe they did and I need my brian checked. But I don't think they we're to amazing, but definately good.