Best Dwarf Origin Myth Ever

Hmmm... Well... All that I have left to recomend now really is Frank Herbert, and he's Sci-Fi, not Fanatsy :P


I love the Dune novels.
 
If you happen to know Polish or find a translation to your native language then I recommend A. Sapkowski's "The Witcher" saga. ['Wiedźmin'] A nice rip off from Tolkien and added some of his flavour so it aint that 'pink and sweet'.
 
This is a very good saga, but I can't agree its rip off from Tolkien. In fact it's totally different in writing style, depicting the world, depicting heroes etc.
As for LoTR, it is very good - for a start. It was my first fantasy book (well, after Hobbit) and I kept reading it over and over again, but now, some 15 years later, I'm not that sure I'll read it again.
 
Shadius said:
You know; never once have I seen a Tolkien fan give valid reasons for actually liking any of Tolkien's work, and I honestly don't see how they could. His writing style is just plain tedious, and there's nothing particularly inspiring about his plot and characters. The only thing you can possibly congragulate the man on would be his setting - which I can appreciate, even though it's REALLY not my style.
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I've underlined what I consider the subjective parts and bolded the part of the message that seems to justify that subjectivity.

Do give valid arguments against if you're going to say those words I underlined, or admit that it's just your style that you're expressing and that you are thus subjective.
 
This is a very good saga, but I can't agree its rip off from Tolkien. In fact it's totally different in writing style, depicting the world, depicting heroes etc.
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Well, for me it was obvious that it was a rip off :D Not strict a copy but a parody and a big gag :) Off course Sapkowski gave it much from his own imagination/our culture but the 'Tolkiens seed' is there. Hmmm, it is just a rip of from LOtR as 'Achaja' is a rip of 'The Witcher' saga ;)

I also heard that a book called 'The Ring' is quite good for fantasy but I did not had the chance to read it.
I can also recommend the Dragonlance books. Quite good, the world is interesting and you have dragons there :)

But I rather read sf than fantasy. Fantasy is for RPG playing, sf is for books.
 
Celeborn said:
Hmmm... Well... All that I have left to recomend now really is Frank Herbert, and he's Sci-Fi, not Fanatsy :P
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Well, to quote the oft repeated mantra, that also has the unfortunate tendency to become a justification for booksellers to mix fantasy and Sci-fi: "Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. [A. Clarke]
 
He does make sense. At some point, the average Joe's going to be in over his head trying to understand tech. Every tech advancement brings us closer to a Machine Cult.
 
evanb said:
I've underlined what I consider the subjective parts and bolded the part of the message that seems to justify that subjectivity.

Do give valid arguments against if you're going to say those words I underlined, or admit that it's just your style that you're expressing and that you are thus subjective.
Click to expand...

Of course I'm being subjective. How can anyone NOT be when they're talking about what they do or do not enjoy? It's impossible to be entirely objective when you're trying to judge the quality of something - heck, there's people out there who like industrial music!

Tolkien's writing feels like he was trying to pen down an ancient saga, and I guess that might work for some people, but not me. I like my fantasy more "real" than that. LotR doesn't feel any more real or immersive to me than your average fairy tale or legends - interesting, perhaps, but not something you want to read a 1000+ pages about, especially not with Tolkien's writing style.

LotR just doesn't make me care, plainly and simply.

I seem to have similar conflicts with other popular fantasy. I won't even start on Ursula LeGuin and Steven Erikson, lest I find myself horrendously beaten to death with twelve-pound compendiums. At least I managed to bring myself to finish LotR.
 
Thanks, that's much better, with the use of the first person and all. Your initial post seemed way too much "from a higher point of authority", your mentioning the "valid reasons" also contributing to that feel.

And well, you might have noticed I'm a Tolkien fan and can't take anti-Tolkien criticism just like that :) So thanks for the clarification.
 
Go Boks said:
Shadius, you changed your tune rather quickly...
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I didn't "change my tune". More like rephrasing my opinion in such a way that it won't enflame Tolkien fans. I'm still completely and utterly puzzled at how the man's work can be considered above mediocore. But as I said earlier; if there's people out there that like industrial music...
 
Shadius said:
I didn't "change my tune". More like rephrasing my opinion in such a way that it won't enflame Tolkien fans. I'm still completely and utterly puzzled at how the man's work can be considered above mediocore. But as I said earlier; if there's people out there that like industrial music...
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Im not a huge fan of tolkien, I've tried to read the books a few times and never made it through. That said I deeply appreciate the foundation he laid out for fantasy. I have read tons and tons about the source material Tolkien used, I know he didn't invent many of the archetypes he used.

But he did define modern fantasy. He gave us a complete world which drew from mythology but was a new work. He created the journey epic (a vast story largely concerned with travel through various challenges) for modern readers. And although this format was used in tales as old as the Iliad its easy to see that Tolkien was the inspiration for nearly all of the fantasy journey epics that followed.

I don't think the Eye of the World series would have existed without Tolkien. In a lot of ways people are trying to recreate the characters and experience of middle-earth. D&D pulled so much from him, and although Tolkien didnt invent the concept of elves its easy to see that D&D elves share more in common with Tolkiens version than german folklore.

Its hard to imagine a modern fantasy world that doesn't draw something from Tolkien (as well as greek, norse and egyptian mythology even if they dont know that is the source of their material). I make every effort to avoid popular fantasy sources like Tolkien, but his fingerprints are everywhere. Rangers, Trents, Giant Spiders, Elves as archers, Dwarves as scottish speaking warriors, and even the inspiration way back to create a world that was all my own (now shared). Personally most of my inspiration came from D&D, but I know that Tolkien wasn't far off.

So I deeply respect what he did, but as you said, Im not a huge fan of the writing. It should be said that I think he was an amazing wordsmith, some of his descriptions and paragraphs are works of art (and no doubt why he captured the imagination of so many). Its the pacing that I dislike, its just to slow and lavish for my personal taste.
 
Shadius said:
I reccomend George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire trilogy.
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Love Books. Took the advice and picked up Martins first book in the Song of Ice and Fire series, and it is awesome. WoT is also great, (read am all and am waiting for the last one:mad: ). Didn't notice em dragging at all. Tolkiens LotR triligy isn't loved for his writing skill alone, the plot is full of intrigue and struggle between good and evil. It made it into the movies, I feel, specifically because of that! Oh, and my contribution to the must read list is Michelle West, author of Hunters Oath and Hunters Death, (and other books that I have not read). Anyway, enjoy. Oh, and Kael, you seem to have a penchant for the pen, why not write something yourself? Your universe is certainly interesting enough. :goodjob:
 
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