Bible adventures with Perfs!

[Perfection]

Hi y'all! I'm reading the Bible! And I'm going to share my Biblical adventure with you fine folks!

Why read the Bible?
1. A giant portion of Western culture makes reference to the Bible and the stories contained within, it is quite beneficial to my cultural literacy to have an understanding of what these stories are about.
2. Many people I know (both online and in real life) take the Bible as a source of very important truth and the basis of their worldview. In reading the Bible and in interactions with people about my Biblical reading, I hope to better understand these viewpoints and while people have them.
3. I need to read something at night before I go sleeps or else I'll stay awake thinking weird thoughts and going bananas.

What Bible are you going to read?

From advice here

I bought The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha: New Revised Standard Version (Fourth Edition) it is an NRSV translation (hereafter referred to as the NOAB).

I also purchased The Oxford Bible Commentary

I also have available a Gideon NKJV New Testament with Psalms and Proverbs which I may reference on occasion.

Anyone who wants to send me another bible or commentary is welcome.

How are you gonna read it?

I will be reading it cover to cover to cover in the order it appears in the NOAB, so that means Old Testament, Apocryphal/Dueterocanonical Books, New Testament.

I will be reading it mostly late at night when I'm often of diminished mental capability, that means that sometimes I'll screw up and misread something or forget important details (not that I wouldn't otherwise). I have accepted that; my goal is to get a good overall picture of the bible, missing a few details here and there or misinterpreting a few things while something I'll seek to avoid is not something that I will put elaborate effort in for every bit of the bible. This is a bible reading not an in-depth bible study. That said, I will be skimming the bible commentary alongside reading the bible itself and will reread passages that strike my fancy so I think in the end it should come out fine.

What about this thread?

Yes, I got permission.

This thread I will document my Bible reading adventure. I will provide some of my impressions at least for every book, some books will receive several posts.

What about me, what's my role?

With every book I will at least provide a question for discussion. But don't feel that you need to limit yourself there, for me this is a process of exploration, so if you want to tell me something you find interesting about the relevant passage go right ahead, heck you could read along with me and post your own comments!

My request is that people don't drag the conversation to the point where the central focus of a progression through bible at the pace I'm reading it gets drowned out. I'm not going to make explicit rules about that, but if I see a problem, I'll work to resolve it. I don't at this point wish to make this a red diamond thread, because I enjoy a good joke on occasion, but that's certainly something that's subject to change.

Index of Perf Bible Posts

Genesis: 1-2

 

[Perfection]

Genesis 1-2
The Creation of the world and Mankind


Genesis 1:
If one is hoping for a stomping of Creationist accounts one should go here instead. My goal in this thread is not to show that the Bible contradicts with reality.


Genesis 2.9:
Out of the ground the Lᴏʀᴅ God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

Why did God put tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place?


Genesis 2.18-2.20:
Then the Lᴏʀᴅ God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.’ So out of the ground the Lᴏʀᴅ God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner.

If I'm reading this right, does that mean that God and Adam were sorting through all the animals looking for a partner? Seems quite strange from the perspective of the modern depiction of God as some omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, (in short omniomni), I wonder how some of our resident Christians approach this.


Genesis 2.23:
Then the man said,
‘This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.’

Woman and Man here are Translated from Hebrew ishshah and ish. but it would be interesting to see the various ways people have translated this in different languages. I've been doing a little bit of poking around but haven't found any really good articles on it. Sort of a shame, would make for a good essay for someone to write.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

God got fed up with Adam not being able to choose a mate among the animals, so he created woman out of Adam. It was god's way of telling Adam to go screw himself.

 

[Smellincoffee]

That "tree of life" is never mentioned by preachers, but -- spoiler -- it seems to be one of the reasons God later kicks the two out. After they get wise, he doesn't want them to eat from the tree of life and become too god-like.

...which smacks of mythology. I don't know how people keep taking this literally.

 

[classical_hero]

God got fed up with Adam not being able to choose a mate among the animals, so he created woman out of Adam. It was god's way of telling Adam to go screw himself.

You have no understand of what the Bible says at all It clearly states that God created both male and female and Eve was a"helper suitable" for Adam.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Genesis 1-2
The Creation of the world and Mankind

Why did God put tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place?

A garden is a logical place to find trees?

Genesis 2.18-2.20:
Then the Lᴏʀᴅ God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.’ So out of the ground the Lᴏʀᴅ God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner.

If I'm reading this right, does that mean that God and Adam were sorting through all the animals looking for a partner? Seems quite strange from the perspective of the modern depiction of God as some omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, (in short omniomni), I wonder how some of our resident Christians approach this.

What did God think Adam needed help doing? Did Adam have to do any work at this point, or was he just wandering around, talking to himself?

Or had God created male and female animals, but forgot to make a female human?

 

[Perfection]

That "tree of life" is never mentioned by preachers, but -- spoiler -- it seems to be one of the reasons God later kicks the two out. After they get wise, he doesn't want them to eat from the tree of life and become too god-like.

...which smacks of mythology. I don't know how people keep taking this literally.

I've actually already finished Genesis. I don't think I'll start commentary on any books until after I've read them completely (well, maybe Psalms)

You have no understand of what the Bible says at all It clearly states that God created both male and female and Eve was a"helper suitable" for Adam.

He's making a joke based on Eve being made from Adam's rib.

 

[Berzerker]

Genesis describes a dark, water covered world (Gen 1-2) being struck by God's "wind" and given new orbital attributes (Gen 1:3-5). Next God establishes "Heaven" (rakia, the hammered bracelet) amidst the waters and then, and finally then, God reveals the (dry) land from under the waters and calls it "Earth" (Gen 1:9-10) - not this planet, just the land. The waters were here before God did anything...

wrt the "rib", the Sumerian word for rib also means life force, or that which animates. And wrt Lot's wife turning to salt, the Sumerian word for salt also means vapor.

 

[brennan]

Great project Perf. I've read 'classics' like the Iliad and the Divine Comedy and it's fascinating to reflect on the cultural and linguistic impact they still have, centuries or millenia later. I've not read the bible since I was very young but i'll probably get round to it one day.

My take on the bible is that the Old Testament is likely both a mythology and (possibly quite accurate) history of the Jewish people.

 

[Leoreth]

Great thread! I hope it stays civil.

Woman and Man here are Translated from Hebrew ishshah and ish. but it would be interesting to see the various ways people have translated this in different languages. I've been doing a little bit of poking around but haven't found any really good articles on it. Sort of a shame, would make for a good essay for someone to write.

You mean because of the way the words wo-man and ish-shah are formed? Never thought about that.

German has man = "Mann" and woman = "Frau", so that aspect would get lost in a literal translation. I did a quick research on various translations and the word "Männin" is used, which is practically "Mann" with the feminine suffix "-in" (which you usually use to create female forms of professions etc.). This seems to have been introduced by Luther in his original translation. I don't consider that a proper word (and it sounds degrading to women), but maybe it's just archaic.

There are some modern translations that use "Frau" instead, and make no effort to keep that little in-joke.

 

[Gary Childress]

Why read the Bible?
1. A giant portion of Western culture makes reference to the Bible and the stories contained within, it is quite beneficial to my cultural literacy to have an understanding of what these stories are about.
2. Many people I know (both online and in real life) take the Bible as a source of very important truth and the basis of their worldview. In reading the Bible and in interactions with people about my Biblical reading, I hope to better understand these viewpoints and while people have them.
3. I need to read something at night before I go sleeps or else I'll stay awake thinking weird thoughts and going bananas.

I suppose I could do in your thread what you did in mine regarding the "giant death robots", however I'll do you the favor of taking your thread and comments seriously.

I agree with your points about the benefits of reading the bible in order to better understand those around you in western society. I suppose it's akin to reading Greek myths if one were magically teleported back into the time and place of the ancient Greeks. Reading a society's myths better helps us understand what people in that society or culture think and why they think the way they do.

I wish you the best of luck in your project. I'll probably drop in occasionally to read your reflections from your exploration.

 

[GoodGame]

Has reading the bible affected your views on nakedness (assuming that you used to frequent specialty bars and beaches before)? Familial nude beaches are definitely out in the book of Leviticus!

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0318.htm

 

[NovaKart]

Are you saying perf used to frequent nudist retreats?

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner. [/font][/size]

If I'm reading this right, does that mean that God and Adam were sorting through all the animals looking for a partner? Seems quite strange from the perspective of the modern depiction of God as some omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, (in short omniomni), I wonder how some of our resident Christians approach this.

Sounds like it was just Adam who was doing the sorting.

Genesis 2.23:
Then the man said,
‘This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.’

Woman and Man here are Translated from Hebrew ishshah and ish. but it would be interesting to see the various ways people have translated this in different languages. I've been doing a little bit of poking around but haven't found any really good articles on it. Sort of a shame, would make for a good essay for someone to write.

It is kind of strange how that pun worked in Hebrew 4000 years ago and in English today, but not in most languages. But I wouldn't chalk that up into anything more than coincidence.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

A garden is a logical place to find trees?


What did God think Adam needed help doing? Did Adam have to do any work at this point, or was he just wandering around, talking to himself?

Or had God created male and female animals, but forgot to make a female human?

Maybe God wanted Adam to see a world without Eve so he would appreciate her more?

 

[Tee Kay]

This is going to be a fun thread.

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

Here are a few good resources:

This site shows several different translations for each verse: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm

Here is the Old Testament in Hebrew: http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/hebrewot/home.html

I also have Greek and Latin bookmarked, but I'll hold those for the New Testament.

 

[Perfection]

Or had God created male and female animals, but forgot to make a female human?

I have thought that same question.

Genesis describes a dark, water covered world (Gen 1-2) being struck by God's "wind" and given new orbital attributes (Gen 1:3-5). Next God establishes "Heaven" (rakia, the hammered bracelet) amidst the waters and then, and finally then, God reveals the (dry) land from under the waters and calls it "Earth" (Gen 1:9-10) - not this planet, just the land. The waters were here before God did anything...

Do you not believe God crated the Earth, if not what did?

@Leoreth, thanks for that post.

People with experiences with other languages are invited to share how their language handles Gen 2.23

Has reading the bible affected your views on nakedness (assuming that you used to frequent specialty bars and beaches before)? Familial nude beaches are definitely out in the book of Leviticus!

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0318.htm

Well, I am not reading the Bible in order to change my worldview. I am not a Christian or Jew. The reasons I state for reading the book are outlined in the opening post.

I've certainly seen that the Bible isn't exactly pro-nudity! Personally, I don't have a well developed opinion on nudity acceptability.

 

[NovaKart]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturist_Christians

Christian naturists are Christians found in most branches and denominations of Christianity who practice naturism or nudism. They find no conflict between the teachings of the Bible and living their lives and worshiping God without any clothing, believing that covering the body leads to its sexualization. Thus, the common notion that nudity and sexuality go hand-in-hand is seen as a worldly point of view. The Christian definition of the human body should be separate, distinct, and non-materialistic.[1]

Many Christian naturists have very little disagreement with the core beliefs of long-established churches, and may even be a member. They feel the error of obligatory dress is cultural, rather than anything related to salvation. Nor is such an error unprecedented. For example, in the 20th century, churches largely abandoned any teaching which promoted racial separation and segregation.[2]

Organized Christian naturism is known to exist in the United States,[3] Canada,[4] United Kingdom,[5] the Netherlands,[6] and Brazil [7] mainly as a parachurch. Public rules of conduct are similar to those of family-oriented naturist resorts. In addition, all inappropriate sexual activity (including lust) is considered to be against God's Word.[8] Although Christian naturists may frequent public beaches and secular resorts, most do not accept New Age and humanist philosophies which sometimes occur in other aspects of naturism.[9]

 

[Perfection]

Sounds like it was just Adam who was doing the sorting.

Well God brought the animals, and I imagine he was listening to Adam perhaps more actively.

It is kind of strange how that pun worked in Hebrew 4000 years ago and in English today, but not in most languages. But I wouldn't chalk that up into anything more than coincidence.

I wonder if that passage has ever influenced how anyone spoke about men and women. I wouldn't think so, but I still have some suspicions.

Here are a few good resources:

This site shows several different translations for each verse: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm

Here is the Old Testament in Hebrew: http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/hebrewot/home.html

I also have Greek and Latin bookmarked, but I'll hold those for the New Testament.

Thank you. I'm not sure how much of this I will use, most of my reading will be done in bed, where I do not typically take my computer, but I may nonetheless use them as references.