Bible adventures with Perfs!

[civ2]

Hi, Perf!
By receiving your personal invitation to this thread, am I right that you are interested in my answers for real???
If so, here we go:

Genesis 2.9:
Out of the ground the Lᴏʀᴅ God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil

Why did God put tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place?

1. It was a test for Adam, to let him be responsible.
(General answer.)
2. The tree had no intrinsic characteristics of "good" or "evil".
But, as the result of Adam's sin, HE was affected in becoming susceptible to evil.
Beforehand, evil was an outward thing, a "snake" (though literal).
Later it turned into "garments", something attached to the body, though not fully part of it.
That's how the spiritual soul ("body") interacts with the material body ("garments"), not exactly of course, just an allusion.

Genesis 2.18-2.20:
Then the Lᴏʀᴅ God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.’ So out of the ground the Lᴏʀᴅ God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every animal of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper as his partner.

If I'm reading this right, does that mean that God and Adam were sorting through all the animals looking for a partner? Seems quite strange from the perspective of the modern depiction of God as some omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, (in short omniomni), I wonder how some of our resident Christians approach this.

1. Adam actually saw that no animal "befitted" him, so he needed a "wife" of his own "type".
(Not species, we're talking about spiritual abilities here.)
2. Adam was the King of the physical world, over all other creation.
Eve was an "extension" of Adam, but there can be only one King for the subjects to see.
So Adam first made the world know that he was the King, and then he was given the Queen.
3. Additionally, Adam showed that like there's only One King over Kings (G-d), so too he was first represented as a single entity (physically and/or socially).
4. "Kenegdo" is a funny word.
Could be both "helper" and "rival".
So, when he's the MAN, he's the King, and she's his Queen.
But if he's just an ANIMAL, she's his headache.

Genesis 2.23:
Then the man said,
‘This at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one shall be called Woman,
for out of Man this one was taken.’

Woman and Man here are Translated from Hebrew ishshah and ish. but it would be interesting to see the various ways people have translated this in different languages. I've been doing a little bit of poking around but haven't found any really good articles on it. Sort of a shame, would make for a good essay for someone to write.

Not exactly the answer you asking for, just a commentary.
MAN and woMAN having similar names implies their intrinsic connection.
Woman is a crucial part of a man's life and essence.
Therefore, marriage is rightfully considered an "upgrade" in a human, and a big one too.

Etc.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Why did God put tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place?

I think it is for fun. You could also ask why someone who is perfect and complete starts something like Creation? Or why he doesnt make something perfect and whole? I think the answer is the same. You do it for fun. You want to play a game(which you know you can win instantly) so you can experience something exciting and new. So you create the Game, the Rules two main opposing sides of Good and Evil. And you have Fun...

 

[civ2]

Gorakshanat
Even though sometimes it seems that way, but the way WE "describe" G-d as being entire GOOD, means that assumption about "gaming" is wrong.
It's just that unfortunately we can't understand why some things happen the way they do...

 

[timtofly]

Perfection meets Perfection

 

[PeteAtoms]

Gorakshanat
Even though sometimes it seems that way, but the way WE "describe" G-d as being entire GOOD, means that assumption about "gaming" is wrong.
It's just that unfortunately we can't understand why some things happen the way they do...

God is mysterious, yeah? Why is God mysterious? God is mysteriously mysterious. . .

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

Gorakshanat
Even though sometimes it seems that way, but the way WE "describe" G-d as being entire GOOD, means that assumption about "gaming" is wrong.
It's just that unfortunately we can't understand why some things happen the way they do...

Its a divine game of course. Even though there is not complete perfection in Creation there is sustainable degree of it and Man who is yet most developed part of the terrestrial creation is capable of knowing and uniting with his Source.

God in my opinion is beyond both Good and Evil thats why we say He is a Source of everything. Its only our limited human understanding which doesnt allow us to see that God is entire Good and beyond it and supporting the Evil in the same time. For without His consent or at least a tolerence nothing can exist for even a split of a second. That is the meaning of being Omnipotent.

 

[Hygro]

I've actually already finished Genesis. I don't think I'll start commentary on any books until after I've read them completely (well, maybe Psalms)

He's making a joke based on Eve being made from Adam's rib.

He's giving Adam a good...





ribbing?

 

[downtown]

He's giving Adam a good...





ribbing?

YEEEEAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

(bookmarked the thread)

 

[civ2]

Gorakshanat
Yeah, even more so.
Our ultimate goal is to actually reveal that there is NO evil to begin with, it's just an illusion made to be destroyed.
I sooo wish it would happen ASAP..!

 

[_random_]

Why did God put tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place?

So that man could know good and evil. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the knowledge, and such knowledge is a rather important characteristic of God Himself. Man's ultimate goal is to become more like God, but this process must happen gradually. Adam and Eve were too immature at the time to properly handle the knowledge of good and evil and still choose good, so evil started happening.

If I'm reading this right, does that mean that God and Adam were sorting through all the animals looking for a partner? Seems quite strange from the perspective of the modern depiction of God as some omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, (in short omniomni), I wonder how some of our resident Christians approach this.

Not necessarily. God made animals after he saw Adam was alone and needed some help. They fulfilled this purpose, but not in the fullness that Eve did. You can view this as a little foreshadowing on God's part I guess.

I'm looking forward to the rest of this thread. It should be very entertaining.

 

[Berzerker]

Do you not believe God crated the Earth, if not what did?

In Gen 1-2 before God shows up to create we're told the Earth existed in a different form. That seemingly confusing description of the Earth in Gen 1-2 makes sense if we understand how God defines "Earth" in Gen 1:9-10 - as the dry land revealed by the receding waters. So in Gen 1-2 the Earth was under water, ie not dry land, yet.

Whatever happened "created" the process by which the land became exposed. I dont believe God created the Earth with a word or thought, or a snap of the fingers, and Genesis clearly shows the dry land was revealed, he did not create it from nothing. God didn't even create the land (Earth), it was exposed when the waters gathered together into Seas. And in Native American myth God did not create the land, he took mud brought to the surface of a water covered world and spread it out.

What began the process? God's "wind"... In the Babylonian version Marduk slays Tiamat (biblical tehom) with his "winds" - they are weapons with substance, not the movement of air masses within the atmosphere. Whatever this wind may be, the result was a spinning, tilted world in close(r) proximity to a star with plate tectonics building landmasses and life.

How did this planet evolve here with all this water? Astronomers dont know, so they keep importing water from other parts of the solar system (instead of just importing the planet itself). At first they told us comets were the source, but that theory has fallen apart as we get older dates for Earth's water (4.3 bya so far). Now they think water laden asteroids brought Earth its water from the region between Mars and Jupiter. Why is there so much water out there? Because thats where the early solar wind would have pushed gases like water vapor. Ahem...

 

[Arakhor]

Let's not distract from Perfection's thread here. Creationism can (and will) be argued in other threads.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

God made animals after he saw Adam was alone and needed some help. They fulfilled this purpose, but not in the fullness that Eve did. You can view this as a little foreshadowing on God's part I guess.

But what did Adam have to do that was so difficult that he needed help? Did the giraffes help him pick fruit from the tallest branches? Maybe the goats helped him mow the grass? Adam couldn't have needed help to tend the sheep, since there weren't any...

 

[_random_]

But what did Adam have to do that was so difficult that he needed help? Did the giraffes help him pick fruit from the tallest branches? Maybe the goats helped him mow the grass? Adam couldn't have needed help to tend the sheep, since there weren't any...

I should clarify that I'm not a strict Biblical literalist, and I'll freely concede that the creation accounts of Genesis are most likely myths. This isn't a bad thing. Genesis was written first and foremost for ancient middle eastern types, and myth was just how they communicated in that cultural context. Myths can and do express truth (especially divinely inspired ones), but complete internal consistency shouldn't be expected, since that's really beside the point of the genre.

That being said, oxen can till fields, which would be a big part of tending and keeping a garden that size, so that's one thing. Chickens and sheep can provide food, and dogs can herd food providers. It's not too hard to see how animals might have been of benefit to a hypothetical Adam if he existed.

 

[Zack]

This may be of use: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

 

[GhostWriter16]

This may be of use: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.htm

I don't feel like reading 400+ things, but if you can come up with somewhere around, say, 2-10 that you don't feel can be explained well (At a time anyway, you can always come back) please post them in Ask An Evangelical.

 

[Zack]

That wasn't addressed to you...

 

[Junius]

Lets not take Genesis literally. There is no reason to do so.

 

[Whiskey_Lord]

Is there any reason to take the rest of the Bible more literally? How do you decide? Isn't this a rather odd thing to have to do for something which is "god-breathed?"

 

[Junius]

Is there any reason to take the rest of the Bible more literally? How do you decide? Isn't this a rather odd thing to have to do for something which is "god-breathed?"

Well obviously God didn't write the bible. Perhaps it is divinely-inspired, i don't know. I can believe that for some parts and certainly not for others. Though for Genesis in particular that was so long ago, and featured four or five different authors that we have no idea what the original intent was. Personally i can't believe the "J" writer was actually writing a devotional work though he/she was clearly very talented.