Boomers: The Evil Generation!

[Synobun]

Well, then you have, by your free choice, volition, and vocal declaration, CHOSEN, as an individual, to be a potentially destructive and ruinous force on the socio-political scheme and global civilization, and NOT just to be blamed for such things later by being lumped by demographics, and I can now judge you as such with a clean conscience.

I always wanted to be a destructive and ruinous force on the socio-political scheme and global civilization.

 

[Mouthwash]

I always wanted to be a destructive and ruinous force on the socio-political scheme and global civilization.

Obvious joke is obvious.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Without seeing the actual data I'll say I'm a bit skeptical. The article I posted noted that there just aren't that many people who watch Fox, at least compared with the number of Facebook users. I'm not sure there are many more who listen to talk radio.

Given the very rapid growth of the social media stuff that "few years ago" might be enough time to make a difference as well.

I think the thing to note is in terms of news, it's still old media for a lot of people. I know I'm guilty of sometimes viewing Twitter this way, but the majority of Facebook/social media users don't actually interact with politics on the website or share their own, and a good 35%+ of them actually say they don't like to or want to. In terms of getting actual politics, it's still TV and radio a lot. I remember one year, as someone who tweets politics a lot, I asked informally my followers how much they follow/tweet/use twitter for politics thinking I'd attract that general group. Nope! Most were here for video games, music, fan fiction, memes, whatever.



Again, that was 3 years ago so I am sure it has changed some, and 55+ people have flocked to Facebook, but as recently as 2016 it wasn't even close in terms of 50 year olds and older and their news sources. The average american adult still watches 5 hours of TV a day on average (even now!), gotta fill that time somehow.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I really only join the joke-y kill boomers chant given two things.

Whut?

"Kill" messages are not good, no matter who they're directed against.

There are toooooons of polls that show global warming acceptance and support for policy is generational. Like, 20-30 year olds support it the most, then 31-40, than 41-50, it's like a straight line of decreasing acceptance and desire for response as you climb up each decade, and that pisses me off becuase it just feels like a "well I'll be dead so screw you all" mindset.

Uh-huh. That must be why my family went against the usual pattern of voting in Alberta. My grandparents were admirers of Pierre Trudeau (neither were boomers, having been born pre-WWI) and I'll admit that my grandfather did have some political influence over me in the years leading up to when I was finally eligible to vote (1981). I voted Liberal federally until Trudeau resigned, and then switched to NDP both federally and provincially. In all my years of voting, I have never voted for a right-wing party.

In Canada, the usual stance of right-wing parties is to see environmentalists as "terrorists" because we protest the destruction of the environment and want the oil and gas companies to be responsible for the environmental disasters they cause.

BTW, it's "climate change" - not "global warming." Some places are experiencing colder than normal temperatures, or they will if the ocean currents are significantly disrupted. Imagine that - a boomer understands these things.

When people refer to Boomers they are referring to statistical or sociological stereotypes.

A Boomer, as an individual, may not hold certain views, but there's a good chance a decent portion of their peers do. If a generation by and large holds views that are incredibly divergent from the other existing generations, it seems worthwhile to point out, especially if that generation controls legislation and is powerful enough to sandbag any attempt at moving forward.

It's super great if you, as a Boomer, support compassionate policy, equality, and climate action. Most of your peers don't.

Yep. I went to a county school with kids whose parents would never dream of voting any other way than Conservative. Of course my age-peers are also mostly of this mindset, at least those I knew at that school. I had to unfriend one of them on FB because I was already tired of the nonstop anti-sensible policies of protecting farm workers (my friend sees nothing wrong with allowing a 10-year-old to work around equipment that can chew up an adult, never mind a child if they accidentally get caught in it) - and then her feeds started including links to people who want to assassinate our current Premier, Rachel Notley. At that point I decided I wanted nothing more to do with this person.

Really? In the US the boomer generation generally got old and went backwards on every policy they advocated for in their youth. From civil and voting rights to costs of education and building of infrastructure. I get the defensiveness, but take as a whole the succeeding generations see a smorgasbord of hypocrisy, racism, and general resentment towards everything not old and white.

Fortunately, some of the people in this conversation are Canadian and are not responsible for the Republican issues in the U.S.

That said, we have our own problems with a Reformacon infesting our province, trying to become Premier and roll back the positive changes that have been made over the last few years.

I would much rather talk about how we are still pursuing oil and gas and subsidizing those industries more then renewables to this day then about how old people suck btw.

Then I fail to see the point of your previous posts. They're full of "old people suck."

BTW, the people at the end of Birdjaguar's stated limits for who is considered a "boomer" were born in 1964. Those people will turn 55 this year (I'm a year older than that; my 56th birthday is in June and I'd appreciate a birthday thread, please and thank you (). While some businesses and agencies offer seniors' discounts to people 55 and older, that age is not really what I would consider "old." It used to be, and granted there are some days when I feel 80 in body, but my mind is not old in most respects. Admittedly I am influenced by the grandparents who raised me... but as I mentioned, they weren't boomers. They were from two generations before that.

I'm lumping them together as a voting block that has disproportionately been boomer. This is statistical fact. All blacks being responsible for gang violence isnt statistical fact.

Anyways you are right @rah that only voting can fix this.

Most parties have a mix of various age groups. I'm right in line with my age-peers who always vote one of the left-wing parties. The problem is that not that many of them live in the same province as I do.

 

[Lexicus]

I would have thought you'd concede at least the possibility of some leftist utopia finally emerging from the rubble. Knowing the fruitlessness of your struggle even as you carry it out seems, well, ominously familiar.

I don't believe in utopia, and haven't since I was a teenager. To describe the struggle as 'fruitless' because it will not lead to utopia is exactly the sort of thinking I am rejecting. History doesn't end, and though we may try with varying success to impose our various political schemes on it the ground will always shift under our feet sooner or later, in such a way as to make a mockery of our plans.

BTW, it's "climate change" - not "global warming." Some places are experiencing colder than normal temperatures, or they will if the ocean currents are significantly disrupted. Imagine that - a boomer understands these things.

Actually it is global warming. "Climate change" was only adopted because many people were too willfully ignorant to understand that an increasing average global temperature actually wasn't incompatible with some areas experiencing cooling trends (and then there were the people too willfully ignorant to understand that even though Earth's average temperature was increasing, winter would still be cold).

 

[Birdjaguar]

I've been thinking about this whole generation thing and what broad events defined the context of their formative years (15-30?). This is what I have so far.

The Lost Generation/The Generation of 1914: born 1890 to 1915 World War 1 Great Depression
The Interbellum Generation: born 1901 1913 The Great Depression
The Greatest Generation: born 1910 to 1924 The Great Depression and World War 2 (the term was coined by Tom Brokaw in 1985. He was born in 1940. It was a tribute to those who fought in WW2)
The Silent Generation: born 1925 to 1945 Korean War, Cold War and Civil Rights movement
Baby Boomers: born 1946 to 1964 Music, Drugs, Vietnam War, Women's Movement
Gen X + Xennials: born 1965 to 1985 Consumerism and Globalization
Millennials: born 1980 to 1994 Political Discord, Mideast Wars, The Great Recession?,Computers and a digital world
Gen Z: born 1995 to 2012 The Great Recession and Political Discord, Obama/Trump, connectivity and the internet

Everyone of those generations had/has its economic and social issues along with very disruptive events. Beginning with the Millennials, real change began in the fabric of culture and society. On top of those of course individual and local events influenced how people thought and what they did.

Millennials need to keep in mind that the greedy boomers who made your life difficult life will start to die off and leave you their worldly goods. Housing a problem? Well, Millennials have found a solution; they are moving to the exurbs where houses are affordable. OMG they will have to commute! Been there done that. Take advantage of low interest rates; we were paying 7-12%.Hobbs made a list of your many complaints, but don't forget that you have so many more opportunities than boomers did at your age. The great recession made things tough.

Climate change: I say blame the Christians who believe that Jesus is due back any time. He will fix it all. Christian politics that are based on the second coming need a war in the ME and don't worry about fixing the world. Fundamentalist Christians feed the fires of ignorance and inaction.

A recent survey (2010) showed that about 40% of Americans believe that Jesus is likely to return by 2050. This varies from 58% of white evangelical Christians, through 32% of Catholics to 27% of white mainline Protestants.[33]

 

[Patine]

I would have thought you'd concede at least the possibility of some leftist utopia finally emerging from the rubble. Knowing the fruitlessness of your struggle even as you carry it out seems, well, ominously familiar.

Again (I think I've said this to you, specifically, several times now, and a bunch of times in general on this forum) there is ABSOLUTELY NO socio-political ideology of any coherent message, platform, ideal, or viewpoint called "Leftism." I don't think modern American and European Conservatives would like to lumped with Fascists, Islamic Fundamentalists, Kenyatta- and Nkrumah-style African Nationalists, Pre-Democratization Kuomintang, United Russia and the BJP, Monarchialists, Feudalists, numerous military junta dictatorships, old Deep South Democrats, the South African National Party and Rhodesian Front, and other such groups as just "Rightists," in debate and rhetoric, would they?

I notice that - and this is interesting - that those who use the faux-term "Leftist" as a single socio-political bloc spoken of as a united aspect, are never willing to go to back to defend the term when it's challenged as such, especially when it's brought up just what odious and nasty groups modern Conservatives would be sharing a hypothetical term "Rightist" with. My calling to task on this matter is always, universally ignored, and the same people will go on to use the term "Leftist" again later. It's a strange reaction for a topic, and one I have never found such a uniform response to.

 

[Lexicus]

I think the thing to note is in terms of news, it's still old media for a lot of people. I know I'm guilty of sometimes viewing Twitter this way, but the majority of Facebook/social media users don't actually interact with politics on the website or share their own, and a good 35%+ of them actually say they don't like to or want to. In terms of getting actual politics, it's still TV and radio a lot. I remember one year, as someone who tweets politics a lot, I asked informally my followers how much they follow/tweet/use twitter for politics thinking I'd attract that general group. Nope! Most were here for video games, music, fan fiction, memes, whatever.



Again, that was 3 years ago so I am sure it has changed some, and 55+ people have flocked to Facebook, but as recently as 2016 it wasn't even close in terms of 50 year olds and older and their news sources. The average american adult still watches 5 hours of TV a day on average (even now!), gotta fill that time somehow.

So as you note the three year time gap could be fairly important as I would not be surprised if some sort of tipping point for online news had been reached in that timeframe. I'm just speculating on that though.

Anyway. Looking at those numbers it is interesting that already in 2015 a fifth of the 65+ people are getting news "often" from the internet. I would take people who claim they don't go on Twitter for politics with a big grain of salt. Most people I think do not really think clearly about what "politics" really means. I would guess that most of those people who don't do any politics on social media actually do a lot of politics on social media. But of course that's just a guess.

Now, similarly, the news thing is perhaps not the most useful proxy for what I'm talking about. I can easily imagine one getting one's news from "traditional sources" but still having one's brain melted in comment sections and those weird grammatically-incorrect chain posts that older people seem to really enjoy.

I'm just not sure we have great data on this stuff. Though I did see a headline from 2016 that said Boomers share more content than any other generation on Facebook. Which is why I'm sort of skeptical that "gets news online often" is getting at the Facebook engagement problem.

edit: to clarify, the article I mentioned (and linked to) is not making a simplistic point about Boomers being deceived by 'fake news' on Facebook but a broader point about the mental effects of simply using the platform as intended. I think there might be a case to be made that the effect of this on non-web-savvy Boomers is potentially much greater than the effect on those of us who adopted Facebook in our teen years (or even younger) and thus have more a "feel" for the platform. Like, if you're in your mid-50s just getting on Facebook for the first time in, say, 2017, you just don't have the depth of experience with the platform to be able to chock stuff up to the platform being a bit stupid. You see the dumbest stuff constantly rising to the top (even if the engagement it's getting is negative) and you have no experience or context to fall back on - no way to tell that the stuff you're seeing is actually the dumbest, and little sense of the algorithms that are actually controlling what you see (and here I don't mean "sense of how the algorithms work" but "sense that the algorithms even exist").

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I've been thinking about this whole generation thing and what broad events defined the context of their formative years (15-30?). This is what I have so far.

The Lost Generation/The Generation of 1914: born 1890 to 1915 World War 1 Great Depression
The Interbellum Generation: born 1901 1913 The Great Depression
The Greatest Generation: born 1910 to 1924 The Great Depression and World War 2 (the term was coined by Tom Brokaw in 1985. He was born in 1940. It was a tribute to those who fought in WW2)
The Silent Generation: born 1925 to 1945 Korean War, Cold War and Civil Rights movement
Baby Boomers: born 1946 to 1964 Music, Drugs, Vietnam War, Women's Movement
Gen X + Xennials: born 1965 to 1985 Consumerism and Globalization
Millennials: born 1980 to 1994 Political Discord, Mideast Wars, The Great Recession?,Computers and a digital world
Gen Z: born 1995 to 2012 The Great Recession and Political Discord, Obama/Trump, connectivity and the internet

Everyone of those generations had/has its economic and social issues along with very disruptive events. Beginning with the Millennials, real change began in the fabric of culture and society. On top of those of course individual and local events influenced how people thought and what they did.

Millennials need to keep in mind that the greedy boomers who made your life difficult life will start to die off and leave you their worldly goods. Housing a problem? Well, Millennials have found a solution; they are moving to the exurbs where houses are affordable. OMG they will have to commute! Been there done that. Take advantage of low interest rates; we were paying 7-12%.Hobbs made a list of your many complaints, but don't forget that you have so many more opportunities than boomers did at your age. The great recession made things tough.

Climate change: I say blame the Christians who believe that Jesus is due back any time. He will fix it all. Christian politics that are based on the second coming need a war in the ME and don't worry about fixing the world. Fundamentalist Christians feed the fires of ignorance and inaction.

Some of your groups overlap in a confusing way. And part of your list is only applicable to the U.S.

 

[Mouthwash]

I don't believe in utopia, and haven't since I was a teenager. To describe the struggle as 'fruitless' because it will not lead to utopia is exactly the sort of thinking I am rejecting. History doesn't end, and though we may try with varying success to impose our various political schemes on it the ground will always shift under our feet sooner or later, in such a way as to make a mockery of our plans.

That goes without saying, but you clearly believe that some situations are better than others (and seemed to claim that modern leftism is bringing about the best one so far). That strikes me as outright teleological.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Do you think that feudal Europe or ancient Egypt were better off as they were, or objectively worse than an era where it is taboo to even pass judgment on people for not raising families?

 

[Patine]

That goes without saying, but you clearly believe that some situations are better than others (and seemed to claim that modern leftism is bringing about the best one so far). That strikes me as outright teleological.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Do you think that feudal Europe or ancient Egypt were better off as they were, or objectively worse than an era where it is taboo to even pass judgment on people for not having children?

Only one post later in the same thread, you're regurgitating the "Single Leftist Bloc" myth usage. And, once again, you haven't (or are incapable of) defending the term's meaningful validity.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Behold, the leader of the Single Leftist Bloc!

 

[Patine]

Behold, the leader of the Single Leftist Bloc!

The way it's used in socio-political debate online is almost as inane and braindead.

 

[Lexicus]

That goes without saying, but you clearly believe that some situations are better than others (and seemed to claim that modern leftism is bringing about the best one so far). That strikes me as outright teleological.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you. Do you think that feudal Europe or ancient Egypt were better off as they were, or objectively worse than an era where it is taboo to even pass judgment on people for not raising families?

I'm still sorting out what I think of the idea of universal, or objective progress. I suppose without a clear idea of what you think is good, there is no real basis for having any political positions or engaging in political activity at all. Is it possible to have a clear conception of social good that doesn't imply some sort of "most good" end-state? I don't know. It seems so, but I'm just not really sure (@Traitorfish, halp!). In any case I don't know how productive it is to try to produce a theoretical account of all this. Whether I like it or not, whether I think so or not, what I described in that post will surely happen. The torch will be passed and someday people will be calling my beliefs barbaric and horrible. The prospect doesn't bother me: quite the opposite.

 

[rah]

That graph is interesting in that the older people that 85% get their news from TV almost half of the back it up with a newspaper.
And the 18-29 group get 27% tv and 50% online. I would think 48% of the older are using multiple sources and getting more reliable news then those under 29%

 

[civvver]

Everyone of those generations had/has its economic and social issues along with very disruptive events. Beginning with the Millennials, real change began in the fabric of culture and society. On top of those of course individual and local events influenced how people thought and what they did.

Millennials need to keep in mind that the greedy boomers who made your life difficult life will start to die off and leave you their worldly goods. Housing a problem? Well, Millennials have found a solution; they are moving to the exurbs where houses are affordable. OMG they will have to commute! Been there done that. Take advantage of low interest rates; we were paying 7-12%.Hobbs made a list of your many complaints, but don't forget that you have so many more opportunities than boomers did at your age. The great recession made things tough.

I think this is important. Most of the younger people I see complaining about how old white guys are ruining their lives goofed off delaying college and got a late start on their careers, or picked a career that isn't economically sound and now have a mountain of student debt because of that, or live in cities and refuse to move and instead think the only reason apartments cost so much is cus of old white dudes cornering the market.

You know all those boomers you want to point at as having it made, the guys who made $30 an hour on assembly lines out of high school in the 80s/90s? Where are they now? If they're lucky they retired, otherwise their jobs are getting replaced by automation and out sourcing and they have to be retrained or take big pay and benefit cuts. And have you ever been on an assembly line? It's the epitome monotony and horrible. Not a good job except for (sometimes) pay.

What jaguar is saying about interest rates is correct. My parents house in 1989 had the same PI part of the mortgage payment as my current house, and I mean in face value dollars, not inflation adjusted. And then a ton of boomers lost their retirement savings or houses values in the recession. If you're a millennial maybe you had trouble getting a job, but you probably didn't lose your life's savings, and the savvy ones were able to buy houses dirt cheap.

I'm just saying there are benefits and negatives to living in every modern time period if you look at it.

 

[Mouthwash]

I'm still sorting out what I think of the idea of universal, or objective progress. I suppose without a clear idea of what you think is good, there is no real basis for having any political positions or engaging in political activity at all. Is it possible to have a clear conception of social good that doesn't imply some sort of "most good" end-state? I don't know. It seems so, but I'm just not really sure (@Traitorfish, halp!). In any case I don't know how productive it is to try to produce a theoretical account of all this.

It's frankly strange to imagine a politics that advocates complete personal nonjudgmentalism as being historically rooted in anything (it actually is, but it's not flattering for you guys to think of yourselves as neo-Marcionists or Gnostics, is it).

Whether I like it or not, whether I think so or not, what I described in that post will surely happen. The torch will be passed and someday people will be calling my beliefs barbaric and horrible. The prospect doesn't bother me: quite the opposite.

...even if those people are reactionaries?

Only one post later in the same thread, you're regurgitating the "Single Leftist Bloc" myth usage. And, once again, you haven't (or are incapable of) defending the term's meaningful validity.

I don't think it's a great use of my energy to respond to every strawman that gets thrown at me.

 

[Senethro]

Boomers are like those gatecrashers who trash a party and leave before cleanup. They will be remembered as the generation that should have known better, but didn't. There has to be a time when "they were a man of their times" stops being a defense of bigotry and myopia, and the boomers are past it.

 

[Lexicus]

It's frankly strange to imagine a politics that advocates complete personal nonjudgmentalism as being historically rooted in anything (it actually is, but it's not flattering for you guys to think of yourselves as neo-Marcionists or Gnostics).

I don't know what this means.

...even if those people are reactionaries?

No, they were ruled out by default. Anyway they're already calling my views horrible and barbaric.

 

[Estebonrober]

Everyone should realize that being a boomer isn't a sin or a crime. No one is going to come knocking on doors. My initial reaction from the previous thread had to do with a gut reaction of blaming the youth for laziness and bad decision making. Which is much more complicated and frankly more personally insulting if you think about it. As someone still in student debt into his 30s (because I wasn't able to afford to pay down on it until recently) I can say you can take your "lifeplan" attitudes and put them where the sun doesn't shine. The same boomers who ***** about the youth not making perfect decisions in their youth also ironically bemoan the failing of "western civilization" (code for white people) because their aren't enough kids anymore. (This is anecdotal from my relatives talking, NOT an attack on the boomers here per se).

So yea I think the generation as a whole has gotten old and grumpy (largely because of cable news and talk radio (now facebook too)), but that is noramlish I think, its just that if any generation was going to be better about this you'd think it'd be this one.

My feelings about boomers are general, stereotypical, and NOT subject to policy decisions or scientific rigor. So bloody relax, get off your high horses, and have a beer or a vape or something. Maybe some ASMR.