Brazil - Pedro II Thread

[shyPiano]

Unfortunately I think I will exclude Pedro from most of my games. His agenda makes no sense (why would he dislike others who seek out intellectuals? In the real world he visited Europe a lot to talk with intellectuals from other nations, and to my knowledge he didn't dislike the French or German governments for having great people--if anything it was the opposite). And yes, he does indeed look like an Aardman Animation pirate. Made of plasticine. Not the heroic Pedro II from my readings.

The way I see it, there's agendas that are in place in order to allow the AI players to role play as the character they're controlling (in particular, Teddy and Cleopatra), while others are there to guide the AI players to follow a certain strategy, and thus have less to do with their actual real life counterparts. Pedro II seems to be the latter, as his unique ability gives a bonus to great person generation, having an agenda that would make him competitive in that front would make sense - allowing him target players that are stealing great people from him.

TL;DR: It's a matter of gameplay vs. immersion - it makes less sense from a role play point of view, but it makes more sense from a gameplay point of view.

 

[VermelhoRed]

Not the heroic Pedro II from my readings.

What have you read, my friend?

 

[Morningcalm]

Try this book, Citizen Emperor: Pedro II and the Making of Brazil, 1825-1891.

Also Wikipedia is a good starter.

Aside from the fact that the in-game Pedro II looks *almost nothing* like the stouter real-life Pedro II, his agenda doesn't make *any sense* from an RP perspective, and the "I hate people who get Great People" agenda could easily have gone to someone more authoritarian, like Peter the Great. I stand by my assessment of the in-game Pedro. They could instead have made Pedro II *like* people who get a lot of Great People, i.e. rewarding player accomplishment in a semi-true-to-life-Pedro II manner.

Such a waste. But at least there's Pedro II in Civ V. Who, though not quite like his real-life counterpart, at least isn't such a major departure that he's basically a different person.

 

[VermelhoRed]

Try this book, Citizen Emperor: Pedro II and the Making of Brazil, 1825-1891.

Also Wikipedia is a good starter.

Aside from the fact that the in-game Pedro II looks *almost nothing* like the stouter real-life Pedro II, his agenda doesn't make *any sense* from an RP perspective, and the "I hate people who get Great People" agenda could easily have gone to someone more authoritarian, like Peter the Great. I stand by my assessment of the in-game Pedro. They could instead have made Pedro II *like* people who get a lot of Great People, i.e. rewarding player accomplishment in a semi-true-to-life-Pedro II manner.

Such a waste. But at least there's Pedro II in Civ V. Who, though not quite like his real-life counterpart, at least isn't such a major departure that he's basically a different person.

Will check that out, but I'd rather read something from my own country. You shouldn't get too stuck on the agenda, though, it's there for gameplay reasons. While in real life, you could say a great person in one country would inspire a great person in another country, so everyone wins, in the game a country that gets a great person makes it more expensive for everyone else, so it makes sense he wouldn't like that.

 

[LDiCesare]

Agendas are there for gameplay reasons but historical leaders are there for immersion. If they protray the leaders in a totally different way from what they were IRL, they might as well put Mickey Mouse in power.
What would be wrong with an agenda wherePedro likes those with Great People? I mean, they can even grab some he doesn't like so he can get better ones, so what's the issue?

 

[Josephias]

Is the agenda for Pedro even confirmed yet? I think we are discussing here just on assumptions.

Pedro might be as well liking civs who get Great People, or hating civs that cut down rainforest, in example. I think there hasn't been a hit to that.

Note the "envy" agenda of Qin does not need to translate to other leaders: you need to be culturally capable to be liked by Hojo (who produces culture himself), and spymaster Catherine de Medici will frown at you if you don't have enough spies yourself.

 

[darko82]

I must confess, when I first saw Pedro, I thought of this guy:

Spoiler :

I will say that he looks like a caricature of that picture. Though, he does not even remind me of caricature of Pedro in real life. Because he is a caricature of that picture. That said. Hopefully, they will improve him and avoid making any caricatures in this game at all cost.

 

[kul]

I will say that he looks like a caricature of that picture. Though, he does not even remind me of caricature of Pedro in real life. Because he is a caricature of that picture. That said. Hopefully, they will improve him and avoid making any caricatures in this game at all cost.

I really hope so, just make our complains be heard to the dev guys. I mean, they actually slimmed down Teddy in Tomyris video, so maybe they are still taking in suggestions?

 

[SMcM]

I'm not trying to slight Brazil; it's simply not a nation that stands out for its artists, scientists, engineers, etc. As I said, every nation can produce a list of great people who were significant for the development of that nation, but one would expect a civilization that gets a bonus to their development would have produced a large list of internationally significant great people--as France, England, China, Greece, Germany, etc. have done. Again, this isn't a slight to Brazil--it's merely a comment that the gameplay bonus is odd.

Unfortunately true. However, IIRC someone earlier posted that Pedro had in fact been friends with some great people from other nations, like Nietzche. Perhaps he would suit a bonus whereby he gained great person points from trade routes with friendly Civs. His agenda could involve placing priority on trade.

 

[Xandinho]

Unfortunately true. However, IIRC someone earlier posted that Pedro had in fact been friends with some great people from other nations, like Nietzche. Perhaps he would suit a bonus whereby he gained great person points from trade routes with friendly Civs. His agenda could involve placing priority on trade.

Yes, Pedro II was a great fancier of knowledge, culture and science.

An excerpt taken from wikipedia:

A savant in his own right, the Emperor established a reputation as a vigorous sponsor of learning, culture and the sciences. He won the respect and admiration of scholars such as Charles Darwin, Victor Hugo and Friedrich Nietzsche, and was a friend to Richard Wagner, Louis Pasteur and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, among others.

Anyway, Brazil has not produced a large number of artists and scientists recognized worldwide. But Pedro leader's ability to be something involving great people is very plausible and acceptable.

 

[Liex]

I don't know if someone already brought this up, but the Pedro's background seems to be the "Ilha Fiscal", located in Rio de Janeiro. It served as Customs Office, and it's famous for hosting the last ball of the Empire before its fall. Today it's a Navy Museum.

Spoiler :

 

[Makenshi]

Will check that out, but I'd rather read something from my own country.

Spoiler :

Have you read this one already? Not focused on His Majesty as much as the events regarding the Republican Coup, but has much information on him, both as a ruler and as a person. For our forum friends, a loose translation of the book cover: "About how a tired emperor, a vain marshal and a wronged teacher contributed to the end of the Monarchy and the proclamation of the republic in Brazil".

I've been told many times, by many people, this one is also very good:

Spoiler :

 

[VermelhoRed]

Spoiler :

Have you read this one already? Not focused on His Majesty as much as the events regarding the Republican Coup, but has much information on him, both as a ruler and as a person. For our forum friends, a loose translation of the book cover: "About how a tired emperor, a vain marshal and a wronged teacher contributed to the end of the Monarchy and the proclamation of the republic in Brazil".

I've been told many times, by many people, this one is also very good:

Spoiler :

The first one gave me a... "Narlochian" vibe, but the second one seems interesting. Thanks for the recs.