[BtS] The Leaders Project - Recruiting Now!

Status
Not open for further replies.
@miles...

to be honest, i dont have a preference between marius and sulla. you point out great reasons why marius should be in and i dont refute them, but i could equally argue that sulla forshadowed and set the standard for the system of government of Rome for the remainded of the classical age. but again, either is good. maybe for fun we could have Caligula or Nero! give him the insane trait that Perpentach has in FFH! haha

@C. Roland-- i agree with all of what you said except on the MLK point. in america you dont have to be president to be a leader and you dont have to be a leader to be president (MLK, Franklin, John Marshall ---- and George W. Bush respectively) now if we dont include him, fine, though i think its a disappointing choice, but the reason should definitely not be because he wasnt president.
 
@miles...

to be honest, i dont have a preference between marius and sulla. you point out great reasons why marius should be in and i dont refute them, but i could equally argue that sulla forshadowed and set the standard for the system of government of Rome for the remainded of the classical age. but again, either is good. maybe for fun we could have Caligula or Nero! give him the insane trait that Perpentach has in FFH! haha

@C. Roland-- i agree with all of what you said except on the MLK point. in america you dont have to be president to be a leader and you dont have to be a leader to be president (MLK, Franklin, John Marshall ---- and George W. Bush respectively) now if we dont include him, fine, though i think its a disappointing choice, but the reason should definitely not be because he wasnt president.

I'm a big fan of Vespasien but you're also right about Marius. Caligula or Nero(particulary Nero) may be interesting(If we have Hitler, I do not thing Nero can be exclude because he was bad) but we already have all our Roman leaders. Cesar, Auguste, Scipio Africanus and Trajan are all must and even id Vespasian is a really good choice, I'm fine with Marius so we have a Roman general, a roman consul, César (who wasn't really emperor even if he's the father of the empire) and two emperor, so we reached all the golden age period of Rome. So no place for Caligula or Nero.

For MLK, even if we was a great man and a great leader, he never really had the political power of the nation in his hand. Even if Richelieu wasn't the king of France, he had this kind of power over the french state that Kind didn't had over america. Personally, I find this Weird : Martin Luther King declared war on Louis XIV(because even if King wanted(we are in fiction there, I do not think taht king would want a war with france :lol: ) he never had the power to do it), but this seem more normal Theodore Roosvelt declared war on ...(because he got the political power to do it)

I hope my point is clear because I relly don't want to minimize the impact of Martin Luther King over the United States(and over the entire world) This man is a good man, but I just don't consider it as a civilization leader (in civ4 term).
 
I agree with you there Mr Roland on Mr King. It is the same as it is with Nelson, they are great leaders sure, but it depends on what they lead. A leader in game should at least lead a country somewhat, not just an army, or a bunch of demonstrations etc (I am sure Mr King did more, but I know little about him).

It would also go for Ms Joan of Arc, she only led an army for a little while.
 
I'm not a team member, so I'll just post my suggestions here:

Mongols, for your other two leaders:
Akhmat Kahn, he murdered his brother to become the leader of the golden khanate, and famously, was the rule of almost the entire russian steppe, he held russia as a vassal under his rule. However, when he demanded that ivan the third, better known as Ivan the Great, send troops of horsemen to give him aide, Ivan famously tore up the letter and declared russia free. He negotiated an alliance with the polish leader, Casimir IV, and led the mongols at the famous "Great standing on the Ugra River"

Timur-e-leng (Tamerlane)
It's tamerlane! do I really need to say why he was an important leader in the Ilkhanate?

Carthage:
Mago, Shoffet during the first punic wars, he was uncle( or was it brother?) to hamilcar Barca, carthage was a trade empire under him

and Possibly Xanthippos, a spartan mercenary who led some of Carthage's mercenary armies in the punic wars and in numidia
 
Yes, and I got the forum for us. :p
(and CFC wouldn't give us our own private forum)
CivUnited is great, not just for modding, but it's also a great community! (growing with work on my part ;) )
 
A quick preview of Leonidas (note that is a beta version whitout the shaders, I'll still improve the textures)

preview.jpg
 
For Leonidas (why you have him makes me wonder, he was fairly insignificant, but he's already started so might as well use him) You may want to open the helmet more, possibly to show the front of the cheeks, and have him barechested save maybe a red cloak (retex the cloak of brennus?)

References?
Leonidas.jpg


800px-Jacques-Louis_David_004.jpg


Also, If work hasn't started, might I recommend replacing the Generic "Pythia" with one of the following?

Πύρρος Aιακιδης (Pyrrhus Aiakides)

One of the most famous Greeks of all time, his victory at Rome spawned the expression "A Pyrrhic victory". Pyrrhus was a Molossian, a ethnicity of Illyians in Epirus, long since hellenized. He is known for taking over an Epiric kingdom, waging a war in Italy against the romans and winning. Although much to his shame he lost too many of troops to hold conquered Rome, and was forced to retreat. He was proclaimed heir to the throne of King Cerranus of Macedon by the Macedonians, and king of Sicily by the Sicilians. Pyrrhus had the option of choosing between the two. Pyrrhus chose to rule Sicily. However conflict with the Carthaginians led to him being forced from Sicily. Then he marches on Rome. Returning from Rome a beaten man, Pyrrhus would need a war to pay his army. So he started one.

Rightful heir to the throne of Cerranus he invades the Macedonian capital and ousts Antigonas II. He wasn't quite content to sit on the Macedonian throne, and left part of his army so he could conquer Sparta, at the behest of his puppet Cleonymus, who would be installed ruler of Sparta. Well in Sparta he was hit off his horse by a brick thrown by an old woman on a roof. Unhorsed he was killed by a soldier. His embarrassments aside, He was perhaps one of the greatest military strategists the world has seen, and one of the most charismatic and influential peoples of greece.

He wrote memiors of battle, which although lost to us, influenced the strategy of Hannibal.(perhaps even teaching Hannibal to use elephants, as pyrrhus had used elephants against the romans to great effect) Hannibal himself also ranked pyrrhus as the second greatest military leader in the world, just below Alexander. Pyrrhus was a highly chivalrous man, reporting to have freed a general and all his surviving troops from their prisons after fighting against a new general. He is said to have told the general to practice and let them go.

Anyways, that sort-of essay is why I think Pyrrhus would make a better greek leader than the pythia

You could also try:
Chremonides Etokles, the athenian statesman and brilliant military commander who issued the Chremonidean Proclamation, which declared the independence of a union of greek city-states, chiefly Athens, Sparta, and Rhodes, from the Macedonians. He was able to rally the southern greek city states in question to wage a bloody war against macedon, lasting from 267 to 261 BCE.

Anyways, for other leaders I have some ideas:

Celts:

Ambiorix: a belgian national hero, he was a prince of the Eburones, a belgian gallic tribe. he is noted for being mentioned by julius caesar, as well as violently resisting Caesar's advances. There's not much to say, except that he's a famous gallic leader who led an Uprising against Caesar.

You could also use Dumnorix, or Orgetorix, essentially counterparts and rivals to Vercingetorix, belonging to the Aedui and Helvetii tribes respectively.

For ethiopia, another leader would be Yohannes IV,or john the fourth, born Lij Dejazmach Kassay. He was a leader of ethiopia of great renown known for being a patriot and martyr. Muslims see him as an intolerant bastard however, as during his reign Sudanese muslims revolted and burned some ethiopian cities, I think gondar was among them. In response to the attacks against christians, Yohannes became a crusader of sorts, fighting against italians and Muslims.
 
For Leonidas (why you have him makes me wonder, he was fairly insignificant, but he's already started so might as well use him) You may want to open the helmet more, possibly to show the front of the cheeks, and have him barechested save maybe a red cloak (retex the cloak of brennus?)

References?
Leonidas.jpg


800px-Jacques-Louis_David_004.jpg


Also, If work hasn't started, might I recommend replacing the Generic "Pythia" with one of the following?

Πύρρος Aιακιδης (Pyrrhus Aiakides)

One of the most famous Greeks of all time, his victory at Rome spawned the expression "A Pyrrhic victory". Pyrrhus was a Molossian, a ethnicity of Illyians in Epirus, long since hellenized. He is known for taking over an Epiric kingdom, waging a war in Italy against the romans and winning. Although much to his shame he lost too many of troops to hold conquered Rome, and was forced to retreat. He was proclaimed heir to the throne of King Cerranus of Macedon by the Macedonians, and king of Sicily by the Sicilians. Pyrrhus had the option of choosing between the two. Pyrrhus chose to rule Sicily. However conflict with the Carthaginians led to him being forced from Sicily. Then he marches on Rome. Returning from Rome a beaten man, Pyrrhus would need a war to pay his army. So he started one.

Rightful heir to the throne of Cerranus he invades the Macedonian capital and ousts Antigonas II. He wasn't quite content to sit on the Macedonian throne, and left part of his army so he could conquer Sparta, at the behest of his puppet Cleonymus, who would be installed ruler of Sparta. Well in Sparta he was hit off his horse by a brick thrown by an old woman on a roof. Unhorsed he was killed by a soldier. His embarrassments aside, He was perhaps one of the greatest military strategists the world has seen, and one of the most charismatic and influential peoples of greece.

He wrote memiors of battle, which although lost to us, influenced the strategy of Hannibal.(perhaps even teaching Hannibal to use elephants, as pyrrhus had used elephants against the romans to great effect) Hannibal himself also ranked pyrrhus as the second greatest military leader in the world, just below Alexander. Pyrrhus was a highly chivalrous man, reporting to have freed a general and all his surviving troops from their prisons after fighting against a new general. He is said to have told the general to practice and let them go.

Anyways, that sort-of essay is why I think Pyrrhus would make a better greek leader than the pythia

You could also try:
Chremonides Etokles, the athenian statesman and brilliant military commander who issued the Chremonidean Proclamation, which declared the independence of a union of greek city-states, chiefly Athens, Sparta, and Rhodes, from the Macedonians. He was able to rally the southern greek city states in question to wage a bloody war against macedon, lasting from 267 to 261 BCE.

Anyways, for other leaders I have some ideas:

Celts:

Ambiorix: a belgian national hero, he was a prince of the Eburones, a belgian gallic tribe. he is noted for being mentioned by julius caesar, as well as violently resisting Caesar's advances. There's not much to say, except that he's a famous gallic leader who led an Uprising against Caesar.

You could also use Dumnorix, or Orgetorix, essentially counterparts and rivals to Vercingetorix, belonging to the Aedui and Helvetii tribes respectively.

For ethiopia, another leader would be Yohannes IV,or john the fourth, born Lij Dejazmach Kassay. He was a leader of ethiopia of great renown known for being a patriot and martyr. Muslims see him as an intolerant bastard however, as during his reign Sudanese muslims revolted and burned some ethiopian cities, I think gondar was among them. In response to the attacks against christians, Yohannes became a crusader of sorts, fighting against italians and Muslims.

Were the spartans really fighting naked ? I always though that it was a myth and that they weared bronze cuirass like other city-state hoplite.
 
Heroic Nudity was a common thing in greek art, and stories do abound about the pre-alexandran hoplites from sparta fighting in little more than cloaks with shield and helmet. Many may have been trying to imitate the heroes they saw in art, escape the heat, or just utilize that great mobility. I would not have put it past Leonidas to fight like he was depicted. In fact, it's easier to argue for his NOT wearing armor than it is for his wearing armor. Most depictions of him and spartans are of them naked save cloaks (a rather infamous dress for the Spartiati) even those older sculptures. Whether or not this is artistic Heroic Nudity, Mimicry of Heroic Nudity, or Just plain being a nude hero, is hard to say. Regardless we have depictions of leonidas, and it might be best to go from depictions for this case rather than conjecture.

leonidas.jpg


most depictions show him with a stylized Corinthian helmet as well, hence my suggestion for more open cheeks.

GreekHelmet.jpg


Also, as a note, during the time of Leonidas, the Bronze Cuirass was not used as much as the Linothorax, a sort of linen cuirass that was flexible and still offered protection
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom