Bug Reports and Technical Issues

We've got a civic/tech conflict on our hands again. Canada starts running Free Market, but doesn't have Corporation.

Also, a concern: St John's, a pre-placed city in the 1700 scenario, is outside of the Canadian flip zone, yet is within the territory that Canada has to control for its second UHV goal.
 
Also, a concern: St John's, a pre-placed city in the 1700 scenario, is outside of the Canadian flip zone, yet is within the territory that Canada has to control for its second UHV goal.
Historical and intentional.
 
The British kept St. John's until after WWII if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure it'd be easy for Canada to obtain via Congress.
 
No such thing. It will stay forever in Jerusalem or any other city where Christianity will originally appear. Which should make it desirable target.

If we were to go by this logic I'd think both Christian holy cities would have to be Jerusalem, since it's valued by both groups. I actually like the way the holy cities are set up now since it represents the political center of those religions. Rome is the center of the entire Catholic Church with the Pope and the Vatican, and Constantinople is one of the four major Patriarchates of the Eastern church.

That and both RFCEurope and SOI keep the Orthodox holy city in Constantinople. In fact, I believe SOI has Jerusalem as the Catholic holy city, but that's more due to the Crusades and Rome not being on the map.
 
If we were to go by this logic I'd think both Christian holy cities would have to be Jerusalem, since it's valued by both groups.

That and both RFCEurope and SOI keep the Orthodox holy city in Constantinople. In fact, I believe SOI has Jerusalem as the Catholic holy city, but that's more due to the Crusades and Rome not being on the map.

Holy City represents the birthplace of the religion. That's the only logic, period.

The place of Resurrection of Jesus becomes the Holy City for Christianity, which is Orthodox as opposed to heterodox teachings of the time (canonical gospels vs apocrypha). Catholicism and Protestantism are developments within that Orthodox Christianity, they were not born from Arianism, for example. Those developments have their birthplaces too. If your Orthodox Christian civilization builds AP in her city -- she claims that the bishop of that city is the only leader of all the Christians in the world. That city becomes a holy city for this new type of Christianity. Which still claims the original Shrine (Church of the Holy Sepulcher, not Nativity) as it's target (crusades).

Comparisons with the other mods are completely irrelevant here.
 
The British kept St. John's until after WWII if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure it'd be easy for Canada to obtain via Congress.

One can also win a war and ask for insignificant city as a peace settlement. Sometimes St. John's is under French rule.
 
We've got a civic/tech conflict on our hands again. Canada starts running Free Market, but doesn't have Corporation.

Definitely a bug, causing Self Sufficiency to be an actual civic. Another bug is Slavery as a Canadian civic in 1869 :crazyeye:.
 
Spoiler :
i0woDhL.png

Do i need to explain?
 
Holy City represents the birthplace of the religion. That's the only logic, period.

Not necessarily. A holy city isn't just the birthplace of a religion. At it's basis, it is a city held sacred or important by followers of a religion. From wikipedia:

Holy city is a term applied to many cities, all of them central to the history or faith of specific religions. Such cities may also contain at least one headquarters complex (often containing a religious edifice, seminary, shrine, residence of the leading cleric of the religion and/or chambers of the religious leadership's offices) which constitutes a major destination of human traffic, or pilgrimage to the city, especially for major ceremonies and observances. A holy city is a symbolic city, representing attributes beyond its natural characteristics.

Also, most religions have more than one holy city, and not all religions have a central authority as the Catholic Church does. Some examples of holy cities:

Catholicism: Rome, Jerusalem, several other cities throughout Europe.
Orthodoxy: Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and several other cities.
Islam: Mecca, Medinah, Jerusalem, other cities throughout the middle east.

And that's just covering the monotheistic religions of Europe and the Middle East. For Hinduism, Varanasi is only one of seven sacred cities, and I have no idea if Buddhism has a set holy city, but they are very widespread and most likely have several just as the others do.

The place of Resurrection of Jesus becomes the Holy City for Christianity, which is Orthodox as opposed to heterodox teachings of the time (canonical gospels vs apocrypha). Catholicism and Protestantism are developments within that Orthodox Christianity, they were not born from Arianism, for example. Those developments have their birthplaces too. If your Orthodox Christian civilization builds AP in her city -- she claims that the bishop of that city is the only leader of all the Christians in the world. That city becomes a holy city for this new type of Christianity. Which still claims the original Shrine (Church of the Holy Sepulcher, not Nativity) as it's target (crusades).

Not all branches of Christianity work as simply as the Catholic Church does either. Take Protestantism for example. Martin Luther simply voiced his opinion about what the Catholic Church was doing and several different groups sprang up. Martin Luther didn't become the leading ideological figure, nor did Wittenberg (where he put his 95 Theses) become the center of Protestant Christianity. I know there's been debates on this forum before that Protestantism has no real holy city since it's so decentralized.

However, going off the idea that a holy city can contain a religious headquarters, so to speak, it makes more sense that those cities be represented as the major pilgrimage and political centers rather than just keeping it at Jerusalem. Rome is a good example because not only is it the headquarters of the Catholic Church (ok, Vatican City, still inside Rome), it is a huge pilgrimage site due to many holy buildings & shrines and the fact that the Pope is there.

Jerusalem is still holy for Christians today, but it is not as major as it was during the Crusades, especially with the West becoming more and more secular. There are shrines in and near Jerusalem such as the Holy Sepulcher and the Church of the Nativity, but i'd wager that the Temple Mount for Judaism and the Dome of the Rock for Islam attract far more attention, especially given the conflict between those two religions over one site.

Comparisons with the other mods are completely irrelevant here.

I think they are relevant if all the mods are following the exact same model. SOI probably follows closest to the idea of a "religious birthplace" for a holy city, but they still keep the Orthodox Holy City in Constantinople. and RFC Europe doesn't have space for Mecca, so the Islamic holy city is in Damascus, which was the capital of the Umayyad Caliphate when it first started.

EDIT: Plus, if we keep the two Christian holy cities in Jerusalem, we'll only make Arabia more of a monster with the extra shrine income. I don't think most of us would like to see that since there are so many complaints of Arabia surviving well past the arrival of the Ottomans.
 
Not necessarily. A holy city isn't just the birthplace of a religion. At it's basis, it is a city held sacred or important by followers of a religion. From wikipedia:

Oh boy, so much text and all missing the obvious point :crazyeye:: Holy City concept has to be considered within the context of BTS engine. When religion gets founded and starts to spread to different cities there is always THE city which gets that religion first. That city becomes the holy city, meaning it is "holy" because of the birthplace of that religion.

Anyways, I have provided earlier a link to the dedicated thread where you can post your objections and read Leoreth's opinion. Let us continue with bug reporting here:

Atlantic port 1st UHV does not get a check mark for Canada, while Pacific does. Montreal is connected with railroad to Louisbourg and Canadian culture coveres every tile of that railroad.

Perhaps Atlantic coast also needs to have an info when one mouses over the tile. At least visually Montreal appears to be a port for Atlantic Ocean, so tooltip would help. Montreal and Louisbourg tile says Canada, Vancouver's tile says Pacific.
 
There does exist a relatively small city named Sverdlovsk in the area.

True, but Tanais/Tana/Azov could be a better name for the city there. Sverdlovsk is an obscure inland town.
 
True, but Tanais/Tana/Azov could be a better name for the city there. Sverdlovsk is an obscure inland town.
Ye, also Muhosransk would be decent alternative too.
It's very significant city
Spoiler :
Bxp2fRzIEAAthZV.jpg

Or maybe just leave Rostov-na-Donu name, instead of some backwater suburbs?
 
Ye, also Muhosransk would be decent alternative too.
It's very significant city
Spoiler :
Bxp2fRzIEAAthZV.jpg

Or maybe just leave Rostov-na-Donu name, instead of some backwater suburbs?

:D Most people here would not appreciate the name. Not even with a dictionary.

Game names Rostov a city 1E from "Sverdlovsk". 1W from Rostov also can be Rostov, can be Kerch, can be Azov. My only point is -- not Sverdlovsk.
 
Seems like going into anarchy the turn before 2/3 UHV Golden Age triggers gives me one additional GA turn.
 

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Atlantic port 1st UHV does not get a check mark for Canada, while Pacific does. Montreal is connected with railroad to Louisbourg and Canadian culture coveres every tile of that railroad.

Perhaps Atlantic coast also needs to have an info when one mouses over the tile. At least visually Montreal appears to be a port for Atlantic Ocean, so tooltip would help. Montreal and Louisbourg tile says Canada, Vancouver's tile says Pacific.
Both are supposed to be Atlantic coast and labeled as such. Actually I passed that goal with onlz Montreal in my own playthrough.

Seems like going into anarchy the turn before 2/3 UHV Golden Age triggers gives me one additional GA turn.
Can you post a save? I.e. before the GA is started?
 
Orthodoxy: Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and several other cities.

No, that's a mistake. Patriarchates aren't holy cities in any sence. Orthodox Christians won't go to Constantinopolis for pilgrimage or other religious purposes, they will go to Jerusalem, like Catholics will go to Vatican city. An other place that can be considered as second holy city is Sena.

Moreover, this is better gameplay-wise. Arabia (and later Turkey) will have the income of Orthodox christianity instead of the income of Catholicism, which means less money for Arabia and Turkey.
 
Sorry, but can anyone help me installing the mod please? im new at this and, i would love to play this mod but i dont know how to do it... please, i love this game and this mod is what needs.
 
Both are supposed to be Atlantic coast and labeled as such. Actually I passed that goal with onlz Montreal in my own playthrough.


Can you post a save? I.e. before the GA is started?

Unfortunately my autosave is overwritten by another game. I'll try to reproduce the scenario later.
 
Can you post a save? I.e. before the GA is started?

OK, here is your save. You have two chances: change civics this turn or next turn. Either way, you get a 9 turn Golden Age.

Problem is Golden Age increases 1 turn during anarchy, but the UHV goal check time is funny so the one extra turn is added before the GA actually starts.
 

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