Bush Attacks Democrats

[MobBoss]

I'd rather we did that back then too. At least then we had a lot more support. There were rebellions in most of Iraq's provinces after the Gulf War. They wanted our backup. We didn't show.

Well mistakes like that happen and we dont necessarily have the sole license for them. Take the treaty of versailles after WW I. If they had not hammered Germany so bad in that treaty, WW II may have not happened.

 

[GenMarshall]

Folks you are all missing the point. Bush does everything for a reason and he is far smarter than any of you give him credit for.

Bush Smart?

His numbers will go up.


This is the turn around for next years elections...its not a coincendence that this speech came right after the Nov elections.

The day Bush's approval ratings rise is when Hell freezes over and pigs file . I doubt the Republicans will keep their seats. Roughly about 30% of Americans aprove of Bush and that is a relativily low number, plus all the scandals and conspiricies the Republicans created would defenately get them booted out.

Bush is by far not the "worst president ever". Home ownership is at a record high and that is a very good thing. The economy is doing very well, even in the light of the war and hurricanes and such. Unemployment is way down, unlike in other countries. People will remember all this come election time in Nov 06...people vote their pocket books and if the economy is still doing well or better then the republicans will win again.

I disagree, Bush is the worst president ever. The economy is in a recession, most everyone is against the unjust Iraqi war and the hurricane situations has been mishandled. Unemployment is still up and people will defenately remember this and vote to kick out the Republicans.

As for all the Bush lied (tm) crapola...look...the whole friggin world thought Iraq had WMDs. And considering the state of our intel services, I highly doubt that Bush was the only person in the world who knew Saddam didnt have WMD. Give me a break. Many people forget that some WMDs were actually found; Artillery shells containing sarin gas for starters but since there were only 20 shells total, it was downplayed in the press. We also found over a metric ton of enriched uranium..but oh wait thats no big deal either eh?

Bush tricked the entire world with his lies about Iraqi WMDs. We went in and did not find any scrap of evidence of WMD manufature. Certanly that enriched uranium is what is getting the people that were in the CIA in deap trouble.

Bottom line. People who hate Bush will not listen to logical arguement or ever admit it when they are wrong. With Howard Dean (YAAAARRRRR) being the democrat poster child what do you expect?

Mostly I hate Bush because of his handeling of the unjust war in Iraq and the Katrina situation. I also dislike how he handles our forgien affairs, I mean he has done nothing to repair the damage he has done. Another reason why I hate Bush is he has done nothing with the economy and unemployment. We are in a recession and certanly there are unemployed people out there, and I am one of the unemployed. Eventhough I am not voting on 2006 (Reason being is that I voted for the losing canidate, twice, once in the 2002 governor election and second in the 2004 presidential election and both winning canidates were the worst governor/president I have seen), I am hoping the Democrats will make a comeback.

 

[Mountain-God]

... Eventhough I am not voting on 2006 (Reason being is that I voted for the losing canidate, twice, once in the 2002 governor election and second in the 2004 presidential election and both winning canidates were the worst governor/president I have seen), I am hoping the Democrats will make a comeback.

Consider, only a little more than half of all Americans even voted - and only a little over half of those even voted for Bush.

Apathy is the enemy of freedom.

 

[GenMarshall]

Consider, only a little more than half of all Americans even voted - and only a little over half of those even voted for Bush.

Apathy is the enemy of freedom.

I just feel that my vote does not matter. Its just going to be wasted to a losing canidate, most oftenly the winning canidate is the one I dislike and want to see out of office.

 

[MobBoss]

Bush Smart?

As I said, you keep selling the guy short and he will have you everytime. Thats why he is in office and Kerry isnt.

The day Bush's approval ratings rise is when Hell freezes over and pigs file .

Yeah, I remember folks saying the same thing about him being re-elected...say..did Alec Baldwin ever move to Europe like he said he would if Bush got re-elected?

I doubt the Republicans will keep their seats. Roughly about 30% of Americans aprove of Bush and that is a relativily low number, plus all the scandals and conspiricies the Republicans created would defenately get them booted out.

Not if they only remain scandals and such. A single charge of perjury against Libby is all that is there at the moment. If thats the biggest scandal you can come up with numbers WILL go up.

I disagree, Bush is the worst president ever. The economy is in a recession, most everyone is against the unjust Iraqi war and the hurricane situations has been mishandled. Unemployment is still up and people will defenately remember this and vote to kick out the Republicans.

Now here is where you are in denial. Every major economist says the economy is doing just fine...there is no recession. Unjust or just, the people want to win in Iraq as opposed to the alternative and they trust a republican to win it as opposed to any democrat. The hurricane situation was mishandled at the local and state level worst of all - those levels being controlled by democrats (inept and corrupt democrats if I may). FACT:Unemployment is down - the rate was 4.9 percent in August the lowest it has been in over 4 years.

Bush tricked the entire world with his lies about Iraqi WMDs. We went in and did not find any scrap of evidence of WMD manufature. Certanly that enriched uranium is what is getting the people that were in the CIA in deap trouble.

So Bush is an idiot and yet he managed to trick the entire world? ROFL which is it idiot or mastermind? Anyway he didnt lie, he was misinformed like Clinton, like Kerry and like every other world leader. And the uranium you mention has nothing to do with the alleged uranium buy in Africa..totally separate issue.

Mostly I hate Bush because of his handeling of the unjust war in Iraq and the Katrina situation

.

The Katrina situation? Did you know that the federal response to Katrina was faster than the federal response to about every hurricane for the last 10 years? If you want to blame anyone for the Katrina situation, blame the local government first, then the state and then the fed. It works from the first responders on up.

I also dislike how he handles our forgien affairs, I mean he has done nothing to repair the damage he has done. Another reason why I hate Bush is he has done nothing with the economy and unemployment. We are in a recession and certanly there are unemployed people out there, and I am one of the unemployed. Eventhough I am not voting on 2006 (Reason being is that I voted for the losing canidate, twice, once in the 2002 governor election and second in the 2004 presidential election and both winning canidates were the worst governor/president I have seen), I am hoping the Democrats will make a comeback

As I have mentioned previously, the unemployment and economy accusation is a just a bunch of hokum..google it yourself to look at the numbers. And about your not voting in 2006...yeah, I am sure that tactic will help elect your candidate. And you call Bush "stupid" rofl

 

[The Yankee]

I thought Libby had five felony counts against him?

(Though I wonder if someone tried to take him out. What's with the crutches?)

 

[MobBoss]

I thought Libby had five felony counts against him?

(Though I wonder if someone tried to take him out. What's with the crutches?)

I forget the exact number, but, the main issue is that he is not being charged with anything other than purjury. No real conspiracy there...silly guy said one thing during testimony and then something completly different at a later point in questioning.

 

[Kayak]

I forget the exact number, but, the main issue is that he is not being charged with anything other than purjury. No real conspiracy there...silly guy said one thing during testimony and then something completly different at a later point in questioning.

And why is he only indicted for perjury?
Also I think you are forgetting about the Abramov case here. There is much more scandal to come.

Now here is where you are in denial. Every major economist says the economy is doing just fine...there is no recession. Unjust or just, the people want to win in Iraq as opposed to the alternative and they trust a republican to win it as opposed to any democrat. The hurricane situation was mishandled at the local and state level worst of all - those levels being controlled by democrats (inept and corrupt democrats if I may). FACT:Unemployment is down - the rate was 4.9 percent in August the lowest it has been in over 4 years.

1. Just because the economy is doing well, this does not mean that the average American is doing well. Remember we have faced a decline in real wages, we face the prospect of wildly oscilating energy prices and as the housing bubble colapses, people will no longer be able to use the equity in their home to fuel the economy. Bush has also now borrowed more money than all other president COMBINED we will have to pay that back. Very few people believe that we will grow ourselves out of that debt. Government services will have to cut and/or taxes raised. Another drain on our economy.
2. Katrina was handled ineptly by many. As I don't live in that region I can not vote those local officials out. What I can do is hold the person who might have to handle a disaster in my region of the country accountable. Or do you really think that Browne did a good job? And that Bush did a good job picking him?
3. Unemployment is down. Underemployment is up and there are more Americans without healthcare coverage than at any point in history. 85 Million people at last count.

 

[Azash]

Well, it's pretty st00pid to retort like that. Imagine this: (It's just an example, don't take it seriously)

Policeman: Excuse me, mr. Bush, but you were doing 80mph on a 40mph road.

George: Quiet, officer! Don't criticize my speeding or I'll report you to your superiors!

 

[MobBoss]

And why is he only indicted for perjury?
Also I think you are forgetting about the Abramov case here. There is much more scandal to come.

I dunno, but here is a quote that I pasted off the web about it: Fitzgerald repeatedly emphasized that neither Libby nor anyone else was charged with the actual "outing" of a covert CIA agent, but the allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice were "very serious charges.

So no one has been charged with outing Plame, but Libby was not consistent in his testimony thus he has been charged. We will see where it goes.

1. Just because the economy is doing well, this does not mean that the average American is doing well. Remember we have faced a decline in real wages, we face the prospect of wildly oscilating energy prices and as the housing bubble colapses, people will no longer be able to use the equity in their home to fuel the economy.

Uhm. Yes it does mean the average american is doing well..or dont you think the employment numbers include average americans? And about "real" wages, they have gone up, not down as you assert. Energy prices are a problem and do need to be stabilized, but the laws of supply and demand will be what does it, not putting the oil companies under the microscope. As for the housing bubble collapsing, well chicken little, lets just wait and see if that happens.

Bush has also now borrowed more money than all other president COMBINED we will have to pay that back. Very few people believe that we will grow ourselves out of that debt. Government services will have to cut and/or taxes raised. Another drain on our economy.

Actually, I think Bush has proven once again that tax cuts actually increase tax revenue as opposed to having taxes raised. Tax cuts fuel growth, more growth equals more tax revenue. Not a hard concept and its one that is historically proven. I do agree that the spending needs to be cut back.

2. Katrina was handled ineptly by many. As I don't live in that region I can not vote those local officials out. What I can do is hold the person who might have to handle a disaster in my region of the country accountable. Or do you really think that Browne did a good job? And that Bush did a good job picking him?

Browne wasnt the man for the job I agree, but I also think he was the scapegoat for issues that were plainly out of FEMA's hands. FEMA is not a first responder. That photograph of all the city school busses underwater that could have been used to bus people out of the town is very telling. Local authorities told people to head to the superdome, and then got out themselves without ensuring that those going to the dome had food or water.

3. Unemployment is down. Underemployment is up and there are more Americans without healthcare coverage than at any point in history. 85 Million people at last count

Unemployment is currently down. Here is a link that I googled so you can see for yourself http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/feddal/ru if the link dont work just google unemployment statistics and you will get the numbers. The rate for Oct 05 is listed as 5.0%. Thats pretty darn low. As for national healthcare we have never had that so why is that Bush's fault?

 

[Kayak]

I dunno, but here is a quote that I pasted off the web about it: Fitzgerald repeatedly emphasized that neither Libby nor anyone else was charged with the actual "outing" of a covert CIA agent, but the allegations of perjury and obstruction of justice were "very serious charges.

Think about it. Why are they serious charges?

So no one has been charged with outing Plame, but Libby was not consistent in his testimony thus he has been charged. We will see where it goes.

Um, maybe because he lied?

Uhm. Yes it does mean the average american is doing well..or dont you think the employment numbers include average americans? And about "real" wages, they have gone up, not down as you assert. Energy prices are a problem and do need to be stabilized, but the laws of supply and demand will be what does it, not putting the oil companies under the microscope. As for the housing bubble collapsing, well chicken little, lets just wait and see if that happens.

Real wages were up strongly in the late 1990s after years of declines, flat in 01, up in 02, flat in 03, down in 04, and have been down the last three quarters in 05.
I did not say anything about govt regulatio0n of oil profits.
The housing bubble is already over. It will be just a matter of a big decline in prices (very bad) or a period stagnation (bad). This may however be regionalized I admit.

Actually, I think Bush has proven once again that tax cuts actually increase tax revenue as opposed to having taxes raised. Tax cuts fuel growth, more growth equals more tax revenue. Not a hard concept and its one that is historically proven. I do agree that the spending needs to be cut back.

He hasn't proved it yet. I don't want to sound like a bleading heart here, but, the tax cuts would have to be given to those that would spend it rather than those that will invest. Demand driven not supply driven.

Browne wasnt the man for the job I agree, but I also think he was the scapegoat for issues that were plainly out of FEMA's hands. FEMA is not a first responder. That photograph of all the city school busses underwater that could have been used to bus people out of the town is very telling. Local authorities told people to head to the superdome, and then got out themselves without ensuring that those going to the dome had food or water.

FEMAs job is to coordinate disaster response. It is a first responder. It's job is to preposition supplies and people to handle these things if posible and to quickly bring resorces to bear if not. There has been many a discussion here about this. Don't give anyone a free pass on this, it's not worth it.

Unemployment is currently down. Here is a link that I googled so you can see for yourself http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/data.exe/feddal/ru if the link dont work just google unemployment statistics and you will get the numbers. The rate for Oct 05 is listed as 5.0%. Thats pretty darn low. As for national healthcare we have never had that so why is that Bush's fault?

Underemployment is what I said. As heathcare is usually an employer provided benefit, it just heads that up. Are you better off today etc.

Oh and just as a laugh a few things that could bring Bush's poll numbers up.http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7639.shtml

 

[MobBoss]

Think about it. Why are they serious charges?

I dunno..maybe because Fitzgerald said they were? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt purjury or obstruction the same charges they used againts Martha Stewart? Yeah, those were serious too.

Um, maybe because he lied?

Lieing under oath, while a "serious charge" is not the administration toppler democrats would hope for. Hell, Clinton lied under oath and was impeached - until it reaches that level its pretty much a non-issue all things considered.

Real wages were up strongly in the late 1990s after years of declines, flat in 01, up in 02, flat in 03, down in 04, and have been down the last three quarters in 05.

Here are the numbers for real wages right off the bureau of labor and statistics website:
Jan 05 (0.01) Feb 05 (-0.02) Mar 05 (-0.03) Apr 05 (-0.03) May 05 (0.03) Jun 05 (0.02) Jul 05 (-0.01) Aug 05 (-0.04) Sep 05 (-0.10p)

This would seem to contradict your allegation that the numbers have been down all three quarters in 05. To me it appears they are holding steady overall if anything.

He hasn't proved it yet. I don't want to sound like a bleading heart here, but, the tax cuts would have to be given to those that would spend it rather than those that will invest. Demand driven not supply driven.

JFK's taxcuts rose revenue. Reagans tax cuts rose revenue. Bush's tax cuts have risen revenue as well. Before the tax cuts this country was on the edge of recession, now its doing a lot better. I for one, certainly believe the tax cuts had something to do with this.

FEMAs job is to coordinate disaster response. It is a first responder. It's job is to preposition supplies and people to handle these things if posible and to quickly bring resorces to bear if not. There has been many a discussion here about this. Don't give anyone a free pass on this, it's not worth it.

Sorry, but saying it just does not make it so. FEMA is not a first responder, local authorities are. I am not trying to give anyone a free pass on this, but to say FEMA bears the brunt of responsiblity for Katrina totally ignores the incompetence of the local and state government involved.

 

[Kayak]

I dunno..maybe because Fitzgerald said they were? Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt purjury or obstruction the same charges they used againts Martha Stewart? Yeah, those were serious too. Lieing under oath, while a "serious charge" is not the administration toppler democrats would hope for. Hell, Clinton lied under oath and was impeached - until it reaches that level its pretty much a non-issue all things considered.

Sigh, the point I am trying to make is lying under oath is a serious crime because it alows concelment of the actuall crime. Fitzgerald used an excellent baseball analogy for that one.

Here are the numbers for real wages right off the bureau of labor and statistics website:
Jan 05 (0.01) Feb 05 (-0.02) Mar 05 (-0.03) Apr 05 (-0.03) May 05 (0.03) Jun 05 (0.02) Jul 05 (-0.01) Aug 05 (-0.04) Sep 05 (-0.10p)

This would seem to contradict your allegation that the numbers have been down all three quarters in 05. To me it appears they are holding steady overall if anything.

Hmm, was thinking we had a overall neg for each quarter insread of just 2. my bad
On the other hand -.17 for the year is debatable for steady.

JFK's taxcuts rose revenue. Reagans tax cuts rose revenue. Bush's tax cuts have risen revenue as well. Before the tax cuts this country was on the edge of recession, now its doing a lot better. I for one, certainly believe the tax cuts had something to do with this.

I 'll have to look up JFKs, can't remember, Reagan's supply side was a bust (see Bush senior's increases) and with Bush's current cuts I'll grant you that the jury is still out. I must say I disagree so far.

Sorry, but saying it just does not make it so. FEMA is not a first responder, local authorities are. I am not trying to give anyone a free pass on this, but to say FEMA bears the brunt of responsiblity for Katrina totally ignores the incompetence of the local and state government involved.

Do you blame the Governor of Mississippi for his poor reponse too?
So how long after a disaster dose FEMA take over coordination? hours, days, weeks?
BTW I did not mean to imply that I ignore local culpability. I went to school; in NO and I know just what that state is like.

 

[MobBoss]

Sigh, the point I am trying to make is lying under oath is a serious crime because it alows concelment of the actuall crime. Fitzgerald used an excellent baseball analogy for that one.

Kayak, first of all, let me say I have enjoyed the discourse so far. Its refreshing to debate with someone reasonable as opposed to the usual inflexible mind set that one sees. That being said, I will also agree that lying under oath is a serious crime, however, I also think some leeway should be given to someone trying to recall specific memory of a conversation years ago and intentionally attempting to conceal a crime....hell, I can hardly remember where I leave my keys let alone what was said to someone years ago. But you may be right and Libbys goose may be cooked..we will have to see.

On the other hand -.17 for the year is debatable for steady.

Agreed.

Do you blame the Governor of Mississippi for his poor reponse too?

Funny you should bring that up. Has anyone alleged that the federal response was too slow in Mississippi? Hardly. Mississippi was much more prepared than Louisana ever was and their local government sure didnt point fingers at anyone. Neither has Florida, the state that has more hurricanes than any other.

So how long after a disaster dose FEMA take over coordination? hours, days, weeks?

Part of that also depends on the state government allowing FEMA to do its job. The gov in LA flat out rejected FEMAs early attempts to pre-place assets to help in the hurricanes aftermath. As for what institutes an acceptable timetable I have no idea...I do know that its factual that the fed relief to LA was done quicker than any other response in recent history and yet that fact was largely ignored by the press.

BTW I did not mean to imply that I ignore local culpability. I went to school; in NO and I know just what that state is like.

Nice place to visit, but I sure as hell wouldnt want to live there.

 

[Kayak]

Kayak, first of all, let me say I have enjoyed the discourse so far. Its refreshing to debate with someone reasonable as opposed to the usual inflexible mind set that one sees. That being said, I will also agree that lying under oath is a serious crime, however, I also think some leeway should be given to someone trying to recall specific memory of a conversation years ago and intentionally attempting to conceal a crime....hell, I can hardly remember where I leave my keys let alone what was said to someone years ago. But you may be right and Libbys goose may be cooked..we will have to see.

Thank you. Likewise.

Funny you should bring that up. Has anyone alleged that the federal response was too slow in Mississippi? Hardly. Mississippi was much more prepared than Louisana ever was and their local government sure didnt point fingers at anyone. Neither has Florida, the state that has more hurricanes than any other.

Even when the first responder to a bunch of towns in Miss was a unit of Canadian Mounties? Florida certainly pointed a finger after Andrew. This was one factor that almost lost Fla for Bush Sr.

Part of that also depends on the state government allowing FEMA to do its job. The gov in LA flat out rejected FEMAs early attempts to pre-place assets to help in the hurricanes aftermath. As for what institutes an acceptable timetable I have no idea...I do know that its factual that the fed relief to LA was done quicker than any other response in recent history and yet that fact was largely ignored by the press.

Actually this is not true. and it wasn't quicker. See the northridge earthquake.

Nice place to visit, but I sure as hell wouldnt want to live there.

I just had a four year visit. that's all.

 

[MobBoss]

Even when the first responder to a bunch of towns in Miss was a unit of Canadian Mounties? Florida certainly pointed a finger after Andrew. This was one factor that almost lost Fla for Bush Sr.

Rofl, yeah, where I work we sent over 600 people to help out in NO, but were beat to the punch by various local sheriffs and aid workers. I work for the military btw. As for Andrew being a factor in the election in FL I didnt realize it, but will take your word for it.

Actually this is not true. and it wasn't quicker. See the northridge earthquake.

Let me qualify my comment then..faster than any recent HURRICANE response.

 

[GenMarshall]

As I said, you keep selling the guy short and he will have you everytime. Thats why he is in office and Kerry isnt.

At least Kerry is the lesser of the two evils


Not if they only remain scandals and such. A single charge of perjury against Libby is all that is there at the moment. If thats the biggest scandal you can come up with numbers WILL go up.

Unjust or just, the people want to win in Iraq as opposed to the alternative and they trust a republican to win it as opposed to any democrat.

I am wondering if you ever seen how popular this unjust war is, not very popular. The Iraqi War is as popular as the Vietnam war. Have you ever take a look outside the glitz and glamor of swearing in the president this past January? There were anti-war and anti-bush there also. Certanly the people want out of Iraq.

The hurricane situation was mishandled at the local and state level worst of all - those levels being controlled by democrats (inept and corrupt democrats if I may).

I certanly dont beleve in that the Democrats are corrupt, I feel that the Republicans are inept and corrupt. Dont beleve in me? Just look at what happened to the Governor in my state who was charged with being corrupt, Both George W. Bush and Former Governor Rowland sends chills up my spine. Back to the hurricane situation, the local and state level have never recived any federal help.

FACT:Unemployment is down - the rate was 4.9 percent in August the lowest it has been in over 4 years.

Again, I dont beleve in this. I still say that Unemployment is still up. Explain to me why I cant find a job for the summer? Its unemployment.

So Bush is an idiot and yet he managed to trick the entire world? ROFL which is it idiot or mastermind? Anyway he didnt lie, he was misinformed like Clinton, like Kerry and like every other world leader. And the uranium you mention has nothing to do with the alleged uranium buy in Africa..totally separate issue.

I dont beleve that Bush was misinformed and I have yet to hear him admit that he was misinformed. So I still stand by that Bush lied his way to Iraq.

And about your not voting in 2006...yeah, I am sure that tactic will help elect your candidate. And you call Bush "stupid" rofl

Well, I refuse to vote since I feel that my vote will be wasted on a losing canidate.

 

[Kayak]

Well, I refuse to vote since I feel that my vote will be wasted on a losing canidate.

A vote is never wasted. Even if you feel like you are tilting at windmills. Look at me, I voted for Nader for the last two. If nothing else, it made me feel better and maybe someone is looking at the numbers and will adopt some outside views to get my vote later.

 

[RedWolf]

I just feel that my vote does not matter. Its just going to be wasted to a losing canidate, most oftenly the winning canidate is the one I dislike and want to see out of office.

Dude - it's not a game where your time was "wasted" if you don't win.

It's about making your voice heard and participating in your democracy - doing your little part to democratically elect the person/party you feel most represents you.

How long does Voting actually take - 10 minutes? I take showers longer then that. Get your arse out there and vote or don't complain next term. I mean it.

 

[Mountain-God]

Dude - it's not a game where your time was "wasted" if you don't win.

It's about making your voice heard and participating in your democracy - doing your little part to democratically elect the person/party you feel most represents you.

How long does Voting actually take - 10 minutes? I take showers longer then that. Get your arse out there and vote or don't complain next term. I mean it.

It appears, given the politics, and low voter turn outs in the USA, it's only the extremists - as a tendency - who actually vote.

Voting sends a message also to likeminded individuals - "you are not alone" - who also might have chosen not to vote.

I would suggest the likelihood, that of 90% of Americans had voted in the last election, Bush would not have been elected.

And that, for his opponents, is the risk of apathy.

Not to mention that there are other ways of ensuring your democracy - that have nothing to do with sending soldiers half-way around the world - and more to do with demanding investigation/impeachment into the criminal influence imposed and exposed by the past Florida Presidential elections, or investigation and impeachment into the issue of WMD in Iraq, or protesting the continuing manipulation and sale of democracy via the purchase of politicians - now that's as valid outside of the USA as in.

While an organisation's tendency, like any animal, will be to advance it's own interest, and our governments are organisations - their interest and ours will not always be the same.

We cannot rely upon them to look out for our interests, regardless of their assurances, we must force them - and by force I don't mean bombing them and taking hostages, I consider that counter-productive, and the best way to marginalise or turn your cause into a joke.