Bush support in the world: the British Tory party

Kinniken

Riding with William
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I thought I would go out of my lurking mode to share this with people here.

I remind posters here that the Tory party, party of Churchill and Thatcher, has historically been the party in Europe and arguably in the world closest to the US's Republican party, a bastion of pro-Republicans in the most pro-American country in Europe; Blair's Labour party is only reluctantly accepting the PM's support for Bush, but surely in the Tory party full support for the President remains a given?

Except for subtitles, the emphasis are mine.

Growing apart

Sep 2nd 2004
From The Economist print edition


George Bush is cross with Michael Howard about Iraq, but that's not all that divides Republicans and Tories


NO DOUBT the group of 20 Conservative MPs and officials who attended this week's Republican Party convention in Manhattan will feel their trip was worthwhile. British politicians, hungry for new techniques and winning ideas, are used to looking to America to provide them. And the Tories are in urgent need of both.


Tony Blair learned about the “third way” and “triangulation” at Bill Clinton's knee. William Hague, the last Tory leader but one, became briefly excited by George Bush's “compassionate conservatism”. More prosaically, Ronald Reagan introduced Margaret Thatcher to the joys of the autocue. Liam Fox, the Tory co-chairman who led the little delegation to New York, has just splashed a large amount of the party's cash on an American software package that tracks the views of individual voters in swing seats and then bombards them with targeted messages.




There is some scepticism back home whether the system can be adapted to British circumstances. But however tricky it proves to operate, the software is likely to be a good deal more useful than anything else Dr Fox's team brings back from its fraternal visit. The relationship between British Tories and American Republicans has traditionally been warm and mutually regarding; but now it is chilly and mutually uncomprehending.


The immediate cause of the estrangement is the Iraq war. Last weekend, it was revealed that Karl Rove, Mr Bush's closest political adviser, had told Michael Howard's aides that the Tory leader would not be welcome if he turned up to see the president. Mr Rove was reported as saying in a furious telephone call: “You can forget about meeting the president. Don't bother coming. You're not meeting him.” What had caused such anger in the White House was Mr Howard's apparently equivocal attitude to the war. In particular, his attacks on Mr Blair for having misled the country over Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and his suggestion that the prime minister should “seriously be considering” his position were seen as contemptible opportunism and a direct criticism of Mr Bush himself.


Revealingly, instead of trying to play down this unprecedented snub, Mr Howard opted for escalation, commenting: “If some people in the White House, in their desire to protect Mr Blair, think I am too tough on Mr Blair or too critical of him, they are entitled to their opinion. But I will continue to do my job as I see fit.” While a few Tory MPs were horrified by the implications of the spat—in particular what it said about the White House's view of Mr Howard's chances of becoming prime minister—dislike of Mr Bush is so widespread and deep-seated among British voters, including Tory supporters, that most thought it would do Mr Howard nothing but good.


Some of the Tory distaste for Mr Bush stems from his lavish praise for Mr Blair, but it goes far deeper than that. While Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan might have been kindred spirits bound together by a sense of shared mission, both the world and their respective parties have changed greatly over the past 20 years. The cold war was won and so, too, was the battle for market economics. But while the American right, despite the Clinton interregnum, has grown in strength and confidence, British conservatism, demoralised by defeat, is no longer certain what it stands for.


Tory MPs to whom Bagehot has spoken estimate that at least half their number would rather see a John Kerry presidency than Mr Bush re-elected. Even one of Mr Howard's frontbench team, Alan Duncan, has expressed a preference for Mr Kerry. So too has Michael Portillo, a former leadership candidate. In a recent interview, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, a foreign secretary in the Major government and a likely leadership front-runner should Mr Howard depart after the election expected next year, argued that the Tories should run on an anti-war, anti-Bush, pro-UN platform. Sir Malcolm—and many liberal Tories agree with him—also thinks that his party should stand up for civil liberties against the creeping authoritarianism of a Labour government preoccupied with violent crime and the threat of terrorism.


The Tories' confusion about who and what they are is largely the result of Mr Blair's ruthless ability to steal their ideas and occupy their traditional ground. Defining themselves against Mr Blair without looking silly or extreme is not easy. But even without the phenomenon of Mr Blair, today's Conservative Party would still look at Mr Bush's Republicans with a mixture of disbelief and horror. In Britain, there is no equivalent of the religious right, which dominates the social agenda of the Republican Party. The social conservatism that is the bedrock of today's Republican Party hardly exists in Britain.

Glad to be gay


In common with the rest of western Europe, Britain is essentially a post-Christian society. Religion, for the few who practise it, is a private matter. Churches here are unassuming, polite and a bit lefty. There is a small anti-abortion movement, but it is nothing like the American pro-life groups that terrorise politicians of the centre and right. There is almost no debate about stem-cell research and very little about gay marriage. The Conservatives, desperate these days to convince voters of their socially liberal credentials, are busily selecting as many homosexuals and single mothers as they can muster to contest winnable seats. Mr Rove would not know where to begin if he sought to build a successful conservative coalition in Britain.


Moderate Republicans, such as Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger, have been to the fore in New York this week, and Republicans and Tories still share the same sentiments (often more honoured in the breach) in favour of smaller government and lower taxation. But nothing can disguise the fact that these are two parties heading at speed in opposite directions.

Looks like the next time Bush needs a "coalition of the willings", the UK might not be in it. Bush can thanks Tony Blair; he looks more and more like the single thing keeping the UK a Bush ally. I never thought I would see a day where half the tory MPs preferred a Democrat candidate to the one from their great American sister party... It would be terribly ironic to see the UK's unconditional support for Bush ends with the election of a Tory PM.
 
Howard disagrees with everything Blair does simply to be contradictory. Blair agrees with everything Bush does, thus Howard disagrees with everything Bush does, thus the drifting apart.
 
Thanks for this insightful story Kinniken.

At the beginning, I thought just like you that it was stunning to see tories against Bush. But finally, it seems actually quite natural and it confirms my first views. Indeed, those who're the most scared of Bush's reelection in Europe are the Atlantists, and the tories are before everything, atlantist.

If you analyze the foreign policy lead by the US under Bush administration, you'll figure out that it's in complete rupture of the traditional partnership between the US and Europe. Tony Blair has said publically that he considered as wiser to say "yes" to the war in Iraq because it would have happened in any case. His point was that it was easier to change the US strategy in Iraq as a partner of the coalition, than as someone opposing it.

Unfortunately, Blair didn't succeed to change Bush's strategy at all. The reason for this is clear : the current administration in Washington doesn't see Europe as a partner. Washington is convinced that Europe needs more the US than the US needs Europe. As such, it accepts only Europeans to follow Washington as vassals, but it will never accept to hear them expressing any advice.

This is a complete rupture from the traditional relations between Europe and the US during the second half of the 20th century. And those who are the most worried are actually those in Europe who considers America should be the leading Western partner : the Atlantists. Indeed, Washington doesn't want to be the leading partner, but the only one which matters. As such, the Atlantist point of view in Europe is getting totally irrelevant.

Europeans used to have two alternatives :
- Backing the US as the leading partner of a Western coalition
- Breaking from the US and build a strong Europe who would be able to talk to Washington as an equal.

The 1st option is getting irrelevant today. And as such, it remains only the 2nd option to follow. As such, the most anti-american Europeans, those who want Europe to break it "special partnership" with the US, are finally not that sad about Bush.

As such, as weird as it will seem to American ears, the more you are anti-American in Europe, the more you will back Bush.
 
~Corsair#01~ said:
Howard disagrees with everything Blair does simply to be contradictory. Blair agrees with everything Bush does, thus Howard disagrees with everything Bush does, thus the drifting apart.
I understand this Corsair. But I don't understand where is the interests of the US administration to not welcome Howard, the leader of the most pro-american party in Europe, in Washington.

If the neo-cons wanted to turn the Tories into a pro-European party, they couldn't have done a better move.
 
Marla_Singer said:
As such, as weird as it will seem to American ears, the more you are anti-American in Europe, the more you will back Bush.
Bush is about as anti-American as you get. ;)
 
Marla_Singer said:
I understand this Corsair. But I don't understand where is the interests of the US administration to not welcome Howard, the leader of the most pro-american party in Europe, in Washington.
Because Howard disagrees is against the Co-alition, if only because Blair supports it. And I would say Labour is incredibly pro-American.
 
~Corsair#01~ said:
Because Howard disagrees is against the Co-alition, if only because Blair supports it. And I would say Labour is incredibly pro-American.
:hmm:

Well, have you read my post fully ? I've got it that it was because Howard disagreed with Blair about Iraq. However, my point is that this is a stupid move strategically speaking.
 
Marla_Singer said:
The 1st option is getting irrelevant today. And as such, it remains only the 2nd option to follow.

There is a third option, which many people favour, even if they won't say so: the "Switzerland option"; simply try and stay neutral, abandon any idea of having a voice in the world, and leave everything to countries willing to try more active policies. As long as the world stays not too dangerous (Terrorism does not really count - for all its horror it is not an "existential" threat like the Nazis or the USSR were), it's the option I see gaining the most ground in Europe. But we are getting way off topic there ;)

Marla_Singer said:
As such, the most anti-american Europeans, those who want Europe to break it "special partnership" with the US, are finally not that sad about Bush.

From my experience, the Europeans keenest to see Kerry elected are indeed those like me who favour a strong EU-US partnership, independently of views on EU integration. However, most of the anti-Americans I know also want Bush to lose, simply because they hate him; few are scheming enough to want him to win, even though your reasoning is IMHO largely valid, though obviously the full effect of a second Bush term on the US-Europe links would depends on his politics. A second war would kill them, a lower-key term based on "saving the bacon" in Iraq would hopefully be manageable.
 
Marla_Singer said:
However, my point is that this is a stupid move strategically speaking.
I never said they were smart-I just said they were contradictory.;)
 
I agree with you Marla on most points ,and i really regret that bush has been such a pompous unilateralist who managed to severely hurt the US-Europe relations.

But i don't find the Atlantis way irrelivant.I am Belgian and i supported my goverments stance on the war with Iraq,belgium drew the same line as France and Germany.But i'm not against America ,i'm against bush.

Since the end of the cold war we have had a very good period that i like to call relativly PAX AMERICANA ,belief me ,the world could have gotten much worse with an other superior power and i always saw Pax Americana as a force for good.The US has outright millitary supremacy over the world and i would have only hoped that in cooperation with Europe it would have used that force to breakdown on aggressor's in the world to force them to peace ,I respected the presidentcy of Clinton as one of the heights of this Pax America and many Europeans look back with most possitive nostalgia to that good time with Clinton as President.

The fact remains that both Europe and the USA need eachoter.We are so economicly interconnected that an attack on one is an attack on the other to.We are also the western world and we share so many thing's that no other culture's share with us.

The rupture between the USA and Europe is a cultural tragedy and it's G.W.Bush his fault.
 
Kinniken said:
There is a third option, which many people favour, even if they won't say so: the "Switzerland option"; simply try and stay neutral, abandon any idea of having a voice in the world, and leave everything to countries willing to try more active policies. As long as the world stays not too dangerous (Terrorism does not really count - for all its horror it is not an "existential" threat like the Nazis or the USSR were), it's the option I see gaining the most ground in Europe. But we are getting way off topic there ;)
I didn't thout about it, you're actually right.

Actually, according to me, this is the worst solution. We will go nowhere if don't face our responsibilities, and that's how I would interpret this European neutrality. And unfortunately, you're also right in saying it's the most popular option in Euope. According to me, this is simply the most coward option available. Most of former atlantists are supporting this idea now. I can't even imagine this happening.

From my experience, the Europeans keenest to see Kerry elected are indeed those like me who favour a strong EU-US partnership, independently of views on EU integration. However, most of the anti-Americans I know also want Bush to lose, simply because they hate him; few are scheming enough to want him to win, even though your reasoning is IMHO largely valid, though obviously the full effect of a second Bush term on the US-Europe links would depends on his politics. A second war would kill them, a lower-key term based on "saving the bacon" in Iraq would hopefully be manageable.
Do you know a guy named Pascal Boniface ?

He's the director of the IRIS, it's an Institute of research in international strategy. He's also a famous expert who talked a lot on TV during the Iraq war crisis, he was on every channels and every radio in France.

He has been my teacher last year and I've done an internship in his institute this summer. As a result, I've talked with him several times. He's the most Anti-American guy I've ever met, and he doesn't hide at all that he hopes Bush will be re-elected. In his own views, Bush has been the best chance the European Union ever had to be transformed into a political union.

There's no need to tell you that I disagree with him. Mainly because I don't want Europe to be build against America and I don't think such a Europe could actually work. Moreover, Boniface is flawed in many of his opinions and certainly not someone I really respect for other reasons which are even more off-topic. But unfortunately, his point of view remains a coherent one.
 
TheDuckOfFlanders said:
I agree with you Marla on most points ,and i really regret that bush has been such a pompous unilateralist who managed to severely hurt the US-Europe relations.

But i don't find the Atlantis way irrelivant.I am Belgian and i supported my goverments stance on the war with Iraq,belgium drew the same line as France and Germany.But i'm not against America ,i'm against bush.

Since the end of the cold war we have had a very good period that i like to call relativly PAX AMERICANA ,belief me ,the world could have gotten much worse with an other superior power and i always saw Pax Americana as a force for good.The US has outright millitary supremacy over the world and i would have only hoped that in cooperation with Europe it would have used that force to breakdown on aggressor's in the world to force them to peace ,I respected the presidentcy of Clinton as one of the heights of this Pax America and many Europeans look back with most possitive nostalgia to that good time with Clinton as President.

The fact remains that both Europe and the USA need eachoter.We are so economicly interconnected that an attack on one is an attack on the other to.We are also the western world and we share so many thing's that no other culture's share with us.
Well, I never deny that and I actually agree with you. However, you've told it by yourself :

The rupture between the USA and Europe is a cultural tragedy and it's G.W.Bush his fault.
That rupture happened and we can't do anything... except waiting.
 
Marla_Singer said:
I didn't thout about it, you're actually right.

Actually, according to me, this is the worst solution. We will go nowhere if don't face our responsibilities, and that's how I would interpret this European neutrality. And unfortunately, you're also right in saying it's the most popular option in Euope. According to me, this is simply the most coward option available. Most of former atlantists are supporting this idea now. I can't even imagine this happening.

I agree to everything there.

Marla_Singer said:
He's the director of the IRIS, it's an Institute of research in international strategy. He's also a famous expert who talked a lot on TV during the Iraq war crisis, he was on every channels and every radio in France.

I've heard of his book La France et l'Empire (France and the Empire). He's the worst the French left wing intelligentsia has to offer, IMHO.

Marla_Singer said:
Mainly because I don't want Europe to be build against America and I don't think such a Europe could actually work.

Actually, I think it could work and that it is indeed the easiest path to a common foreign policy - nothing like a good enemy to get people to work together. Such an Europe is not at all what I want however, and I'll even prefer no common foreign policy to one based on anti-Americanism. I am however mildly hopeful - even if Bush gets re-elected, which is not a given, I think the next four years will not be as painful as far as EU-US ties are concerned, as long as Bush does not do something dramatically stupid (like invading Syria or Iran). Simply, we will have four more years of the US's support in Europe eroding more and more, and the rebuilding task for the next sensed US president will be even harder.
 
Marla_Singer said:
This is a complete rupture from the traditional relations between Europe and the US during the second half of the 20th century. And those who are the most worried are actually those in Europe who considers America should be the leading Western partner : the Atlantists. Indeed, Washington doesn't want to be the leading partner, but the only one which matters. As such, the Atlantist point of view in Europe is getting totally irrelevant.

Europeans used to have two alternatives :
- Backing the US as the leading partner of a Western coalition
- Breaking from the US and build a strong Europe who would be able to talk to Washington as an equal.

The 1st option is getting irrelevant today. And as such, it remains only the 2nd option to follow. As such, the most anti-american Europeans, those who want Europe to break it "special partnership" with the US, are finally not that sad about Bush.

As such, as weird as it will seem to American ears, the more you are anti-American in Europe, the more you will back Bush.

Why should the US see europe as a partner anymore? Europe has done more harm overall than good, were much better off improving relations with China, Japan, Brazil, and Austrilia. Europe is in decline, a bully that lost there power.
 
Strider said:
Why should the US see europe as a partner anymore? Europe has done more harm overall than good, were much better off improving relations with China, Japan, Brazil, and Austrilia. Europe is in decline, a bully that lost there power.
Indeed, now explains me why America has necessarily to follow the same path as Europe ?

Our failure should be an example of what to avoid for the following powers. Unfortunately, Bush seems to take this exact same direction.
 
Strider said:
Why should the US see europe as a partner anymore? Europe has done more harm overall than good, were much better off improving relations with China, Japan, Brazil, and Austrilia. Europe is in decline, a bully that lost there power.

If the US has sunk so low that it prefers an alliance with China to one with European democracies, there is indeed not much to discuss. I'm not cynic enough to believe that it is the case though - yet.
As for the other countries you mentioned, the strains on your relations with them introduced by Bush are if possible even greater. After all, Europe remains by far the most pro-US continent, even if at the rate things are going that's not saying much...
 
Marla_Singer said:
Indeed, now explains me why America has necessarily to follow the same path as Europe ?

Our failure should be an example of what to avoid for the following powers. Unfortunately, Bush seems to take this exact same direction.

America has no choice except to follow europe because of the stupid EU/US relantanship bullcrap.

I'm glad to see that Bush is pulling away from our european "allies." Let them boil and get pissed off at it, it'll just prove the increasing decline of europe.

We should be more concerned about other things, we can gather several allies by giving more funding to help industrlize some African countries. If we can get a strong support in South America, Africa, and the Pacific, then were good to go. Allies who are concerned about our wellfare, as we should be to theres.
 
Strider said:
We should be more concerned about other things, we can gather several allies by giving more funding to help industrlize some African countries. If we can get a strong support in South America, Africa, and the Pacific, then were good to go. Allies who are concerned about our wellfare, as we should be to theres.

:lol:

Did you have a look at opinions of the US in the regions you mentioned? :crazyeye:
The population there hate Bush even more than in Europe. If your plan to get the US out of the diplomatic hole it is digging for itself is checkbook diplomacy, you have better be prepared for a national debt rising to new heights. Most of the countries in questions are democracies now - and I'm afraid that makes client-state buying much more expensive.
 
We should be more concerned about other things, we can gather several allies by giving more funding to help industrlize some African countries. If we can get a strong support in South America, Africa, and the Pacific, then were good to go. Allies who are concerned about our wellfare, as we should be to theres.

Many European country's have been staunch allies of the US for decade's now.

When 9/11 happened ,All European allies emmediatly backed the invokement of article 6 in NATO in support of their ally the US wich was attacked.
Bush however explicitly remarked that he didn't care about that ,that he didn't need help of Europe in the Afhan campaign and that to him europe was frankly irrelevant.We wanted to help ,Bush just insulted us by saying '"shove off". (sp?)

The US needs Europe for it's manpower and it's money.In NATO coorperation ,the USA has many times played the role of campaigner in foreign country's and the EU afterwards as the peacekeeper and financial rebuilder.This was a very good coorperation actually however many Americans never have understood or valued the depth of this coorperation ,seeing it as they were the only one to do the dirty work.
You could have quite used this European potential in Iraq ,it's deffinatly a fact that the UK is much better at peace keeping in Iraq than the US is ,europe has much more experience in these matters and is more accepted as a peace keeping force.Now that the US must do it's peacekeeping with a high toll in American blood ,it can maybe understand the the past efforts of Europe after it's campaigns.Certainly the US lost more men in iraq after the war "ended".

But don't expect Europe to run to aid of the US if Bush make's remarks as the old Europe is irrelevant and we frankly don't need them.
 
Both Labour and the Tories are opportunist parties, lacking in ideological vision and direction, content to sway with the swing voters and ignore their traditional long standing support. For Labour, this means turning their backs on the Trade Unionists. For the Tories, this means turning their backs on Bush.

It's no secret that many people in the UK, left and right wing alike, think Bush is an idiot. The Tories need votes. They can't keep going humiliating election defeat after another, they must gain popular support. So now, we see "liberal" policies being adopted by the Tories (not that their particularly liberal mind), and a tendency to attack Blair, his relationship with Bush, and his reasons for going to War in Iraq. I don't think it has much to do with any shift in core policies, because the Tories have no more core policies to speak of. They're like the Labour of the early 1990's.

Personally, I blame David Blunkett, the Home Secretary, for Labour's apparent authoritarian streak. "Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" has been the mantra for home affairs, and it has lead to some draconian policies, such as prison reform, curfews for teenagers, policing practices, etc.

So to sum it up, I think you guys are looking too much into this. Howard just wants votes.
 
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