[RD] Butlerian Jihad.

[Lexicus]

I don't have a facebook account. Does that make me fascinating in this day and age?

Way less than you'd be if you were under 30.

 

[W|M]

Damn I thought this thread would be about domestic workers rising up in holy war

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Not Facebook here either. Havent twitted anything in my life and I try to keep WhatsApp at minimums. I know about the existence of this Telegram thingy, it was invented in the 19th century, so don't know what is all the hype about.

OTOH I have a huge smart phone, a couple of tablets, a high end PC, VR googles, 100 Mb internet connection, etc, and I use computers for everything at home and at my work, including daily shopping. So not butler jihad (or whatever) for me, only technological sociopathy.

 

[Hygro]

As in: I thought this thread was going to be about Judith Butler

Saaaame.

 

[Sommerswerd]

1. No phone. Since so much of the world now runs on the ability to instantly contact anyone at any time, this may restrict me from holding certain jobs or dating certain people. As a replacement, I would like some form of Whatsapp-style means of contact that (A) cannot be transported easily and therefore stays at home, and (B) cannot do anything beyond that single function.

A simple, old fashioned, landline phone with an answering machine and/or voicemail function seems to check all the boxes. I don't see why you can't go with that, unless they aren't available where you are for some inexplicable reason. There's also good old fashioned handwritten letters. I notice you referenced dating... some potential significant others might actually be really into that.

2. No computers. I have to give up gaming and the internet entirely. Fortunately, I could never stand ebooks, so I already have a stock of physical books on hand. I'll probably kick out movies as well, except on social occasions.

I don't get this, given that you then say:

7. Figure out how I'll keep writing. I'm trying to create a web serial like Worm. I don't have any illusions about duplicating wildbow's success, but it would give me immediate feedback about my writing from an actual audience, give me writing experience without risk (of the sort involved in, say, sinking copious amounts of time into a novel), and finally give me a ready-made portfolio for any future publication attempt. Even though I'll have to put it up on the internet, there's no excuse for writing the story on a computer.

I guess you could write it and then pay someone to transcribe and post it for you, and then print out the feedback, if any, for you to read later.

How wonderful it would be if I had access to a computer writing program, and only that program. Disable the computer from being able to use anything else.

An old Apple 2c would do the trick, but you dont even have to go that extreme. You could just use an old Windows machine, and just not connect it to the internet and delete all the programs except the pre installed Word or WordPad or Notepad or whatever typing program is already on it. Now you have your digital typewriter to transcribe your writing.

2) should probably be "pleads for affirmation in the form of being talked out of it by his forum peers,"

I thought about that, and making a speech about how we need our conservative posters for robust debate, blah, blah,blah... but I'm just taking it at face value, because 1.) Its more fun; 2.) It lets me show off my old-man obsolete-tech know-how and 3.) I know what it feels like to get rejected by, or lose a woman... or a loved one FTM... it has a tendency to put you in a "checking out" kind of mindset. Obviously I don't know for certain that this is what is going on here, but it's a similar/familiar tone.

 

[Farm Boy]

it has a tendency to put you in a "checking out" kind of mindset.

I was thinking about this in the light of the temperature control point. Reads to me like boredom/malaise, or as Hygro sometimes puts it, lukewarmdom. I spend way more time indoors than I used to, and the difference between always climate control and no air conditioning in the summer/drafty house with radiators and blankets in the winter is pretty big. It's hard to enjoy things that feel nice when nothing ever chafes. I can still smell dust on blankets, smell hot radiator metal, and feel the points of it in my back. None of which is particularly pleasant, but the memory of it is peace and comfort. I have to remember that on hot days and just roll down the windows in the car and take off, dust and crap blowing in to be damned. It really lets you, for lack of better terms, smell and taste where you are. It puts you more in tune. Water does not taste very good unless you are thirsty. Then it is wonderful.

 

[civvver]

To be fair, the issue of technology is secondary. The primary issue is one of discipline, self-indulgence, complacency.
It's the use we make of technology that should be in question.

Right and that's why mouthwash should define his problem. Is he lacking discipline or is he depressed or something else that tech aggravates the issue? Maybe deal with the underlying issue and then having the tech won't be a problem.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I was thinking about this in the light of the temperature control point. Reads to me like boredom/malaise, or as Hygro sometimes puts it, lukewarmdom. I spend way more time indoors than I used to, and the difference between always climate control and no air conditioning in the summer/drafty house with radiators and blankets in the winter is pretty big. It's hard to enjoy things that feel nice when nothing ever chafes. I can still smell dust on blankets, smell hot radiator metal, and feel the points of it in my back. None of which is particularly pleasant, but the memory of it is peace and comfort. I have to remember that on hot days and just roll down the windows in the car and take off, dust and crap blowing in to be damned. It really lets you, for lack of better terms, smell and taste where you are. It puts you more in tune. Water does not taste very good unless you are thirsty. Then it is wonderful.

Having to go without salt for a couple weeks, then getting to eat something with a tiny bit of salt in it is absolute heaven... like an amount of salt so small you wouldn't have noticed it a few weeks before.

 

[civvver]

Having to go without salt for a couple weeks, then getting to eat something with a tiny bit of salt in it is absolute heaven... like an amount of salt so small you wouldn't have noticed it a few weeks before.

I do this with alcohol and sugar. Avoid them for caloric needs, then eating a dessert or having a beer after a week or two tastes fantastic.

 

[Synobun]

For many of these, you can achieve them simply by living in a co-op. I'm not sure what they would be called in Europe or Israel. Generally they are a house, a series of houses, or some other type of complex shared by like-minded individuals. They typically err towards being a "hippy" mindset, but you get to have that mandated physical labour, that growing your own crops, and that surviving without a car lifestyle. Most co-ops either don't need a car at all or they collectively share a vehicle. At least, with the co-ops I've seen.

Live long enough in a co-op and you'll probably hear about someone's commune/community. These are sometimes off-grid, but they pretty much all universally rely on the self-sustaining principle where you don't rely on the outside world for contact, recreation, or survival. There aren't many of these and they're tough to get into (for obvious reasons).

If you know a sufficiently tech-y individual, you can pay them to build you a laptop/desktop that restricts access to everything and automatically boots to a Word processor of your choice. Satellite internet gives you access to the internet and you can switch it off at any time, or you can just rely on public wifi. There are enough software solutions around that could give you internet access for a set period of time before again restricting access. These limitations are easy enough to circumvent if you want to do that, but it works well enough if you're committed but just don't want to deal with the temptation.

I think this plan is kind of stupid, but if you're going to do it you might as well do it right. The above is sufficiently modern while still adopting your vow of temperance.

Alternatively, you can just pick a random rural town and head off into the horizon. People have been surviving without cars since forever. You just can't expect the access you enjoy today.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

The issue with screen techs is that of addiction and waste of time.
95+% of people's digital activity consists of entertainment. A better word in its polysemy would be : distraction.
yung.carl.jung mentioned "sedation", which echoes to exactly the same facts and is a very legitimate wording.
95+% of today's entertainment is industrial junk, too. If it were works of arts or thought provoking creations, it wouldn't be such a problem.
But no. Sedation, distraction. What word comes next ? Subjugation.

Find the intruder. It's a hard one. 1 in 10 people doesn't find it :
Citizen, consumer, labourer, spectator.

Hence the Jihad, justified in a progressive manner.
To be fair, the issue of technology is secondary. The primary issue is one of discipline, self-indulgence, complacency.
It's the use we make of technology that should be in question. In that regard, simply cutting your internet connexion should have drastic enough effects.
You can then always go to a public provider when you need to.
I was amazed, the last time I cut my electronic ties, how I started thinking again. It actually felt pretty satisfying.


On handwriting. This is an issue dear to me.
I'm absolutely convinced that the choice of words, the structure and rhythm of sentences will not be the same, depending on the medium you use for transcription.
The medium determines, to some extent, what and how you will write.
Therefore, the medium is important if you're trying to respect/develop a litterary form. Not so much if you're concerned with a work of logic.
It's not the same thing to masticate a couple of sentences while walking, to compose a sentence, singing out loud in the shower, to string a flurry of words, ten letters at a time on a keyboard or to use a pen on... and what sort of pen ? and on what type of support ? Will it be beer mats or the largest and noblest of notebooks ?
It's not the same either to put words together indoors, outdoors, in a strange or familiar environment. Conditions.
And it all can work. There isn't a way that is better than another.
But the ways differ and there is a way that is concordant with the litterary form that you're seeking.
If handwriting is a worthy exercise, it's actually a possibility that typing is what you should keep doing.

Have fun !

great post and agreed on all accounts. i also think handwriting is vastly different, but find that I actually write "better" on keyboard, it has more of a speedy, hasty syntax, more of an innate paranoia, it feels instantaneous, I think way less than I do with handwriting. it's less conscious, more subconscious, imho. I feel my handwriting is more prosaic, less obscene and over-the-top, more melodic and more humble.

Right and that's why mouthwash should define his problem. Is he lacking discipline or is he depressed or something else that tech aggravates the issue? Maybe deal with the underlying issue and then having the tech won't be a problem.

technology is never not a problem. even if you cut all technology from your life you will still be affected by technology in a grand way via other people. even the sheer availability of technologies will influence the way you think.

 

[metalhead]

I never lived in a large city, but from what I saw of them they're basically just highway and parking lot.

I've lived in both Chicago and Philadelphia without needing a car. If your "local transit" thing just means using mass transit to get around, there is really nothing stopping you from living in many major American cities. Or as was mentioned above, you can get a bike.

I much prefer walking to biking, personally, and if you endeavor to walk most places, you can kill the "exercise" thing just by going about your daily business. Walk to and from work, walk to the grocery store, walk to the library, etc. If you want you can even throw some books in a backpack for extra weight, to make your walking more strenuous.

 

[Mouthwash]

Right and that's why mouthwash should define his problem. Is he lacking discipline or is he depressed or something else that tech aggravates the issue? Maybe deal with the underlying issue and then having the tech won't be a problem.

I'm addicted to the internet/games, can't productively do anything for long periods, am physically weak and malformed (like most modern people), and have next to no social life.

technology is never not a problem. even if you cut all technology from your life you will still be affected by technology in a grand way via other people. even the sheer availability of technologies will influence the way you think.

Hence the thread title. Ultimately my struggle is against the modern world, but as the saying goes, lighting a candle is more effective than raging against the dark. While Luddism is becoming popular again with certain parts of the right, the goal should be the creation of spaces where people can actually live healthy and happy lives without technology. That's what the movement will be built upon, rather than a frustrated demand for things to change. For every person suffering at the hands of technology, there is someone whose career and preferred lifestyle depends on it (even if they also suffer, modern therapeutic culture offers them false hope and makes it impossible for them to understand why).

I've lived in both Chicago and Philadelphia without needing a car. If your "local transit" thing just means using mass transit to get around, there is really nothing stopping you from living in many major American cities. Or as was mentioned above, you can get a bike.

But like I said, modern cities are awful in other ways.

I much prefer walking to biking, personally, and if you endeavor to walk most places, you can kill the "exercise" thing just by going about your daily business. Walk to and from work, walk to the grocery store, walk to the library, etc. If you want you can even throw some books in a backpack for extra weight, to make your walking more strenuous.

I already do this. I think your notion of what constitutes sufficient exercise is a ridiculous underestimate. We need to be moving throughout most hours of the day, and also need brief moments of extreme exertion.

In addition, there are psychological requirements that preclude gyms or sidewalks. The area in which you exercise needs to be interesting and nonuniform (e.g. hiking).

 

[metalhead]

I already do this. I think your notion of what constitutes sufficient exercise is a ridiculous underestimate. We need to be moving throughout most hours of the day, as well as brief moments of extreme exertion.

Where does your notion come from? Do you have a source or are you just freewheelin' it?

 

[Mouthwash]

OK. My notion comes from my doctor. Where does yours come from?

From nature, not an opinionated fellow with a certificate.

 

[metalhead]

From nature, not an opinionated fellow with a certificate.

My doctor is a woman, so nice one

From nature, eh? Like a tart in a pond told you, or you just made up a bunch of stuff and are calling it "nature?"

 

[Ajidica]

I'm addicted to the internet/games, can't productively do anything for long periods, am physically weak and malformed (like most modern people), and have next to no social life.

I mean, that all sounds like a Mouthwash problem instead of a society problem.

From nature, not an opinionated fellow with a certificate.

Ideas that came to you after eating weird berries found in the woods are generally not the best source of ideas.

 

[Traitorfish]

I mean, that all sounds like a Mouthwash problem instead of a society problem.

I don't know. Modern society tends to produce disorientation and isolation. Some people suffer the effects more than others, but it's a fairly general experience. Almost everyone experiences to some degree or another; if they don't, they're either a Buddhist saint, or a sociopath with no baseline experience to compare against. Moreover, this increasingly seems like a feature, not a bug: not a temporary side-effect of the up-ending of traditional agricultural society, but an ever-intensifying consequence of the deepening subordination of human society to the state and to capital.

Mouthwash's error is in fact that he sees these problems as spiritual and moral in essence, not that he wants to see these as general rather than individual problems. They are in fact problems of capitalism.

From nature, not an opinionated fellow with a certificate.

Anthropologists have reported that hunter-gatherers typical alternate between periods of activity and periods of idleness. They are frequently active, but not constantly active. Constant activity only emergences alongside agriculture, and humans then devoted themselves to whittling that back down through improved agricultural practices and less labour-intensive pastoral practices. What "nature" are you observing, that scholars have somehow missed?

 

[Mouthwash]

Mouthwash's error is in fact that he sees these problems as spiritual and moral in essence, not that he wants to see these as general rather than individual problems. They are in fact problems of capitalism.

Of course they are. You just fail to see that the solution to capitalism is spirituality and morality.

Anthropologists have reported that hunter-gatherers typical alternate between periods of activity and periods of idleness. They are frequently active, but not constantly active. Constant activity only emergences alongside agriculture, and humans then devoted themselves to whittling that back down through improved agricultural practices and less labour-intensive pastoral practices. What "nature" are you observing, that scholars have somehow missed?

Alright, yes, this is true. But there can't be much downside to simply cranking up the activity, because that's something our nomadic ancestors would have done in many situations. Remember that nature is redundant and 'plans' for extreme conditions - the fact that people living modern lifestyles are still alive at all is proof of that.

I think an increase in exercise would be easily accommodated by our biology.

 

[W|M]

Of course they are. You just fail to see that the solution to capitalism is spirituality and morality.

How exactly would capitalism be solved by spirituality and morality?

Alright, yes, this is true. But there can't be much downside to simply cranking up the activity, because that's something our nomadic ancestors would have done in many situations. Remember that nature is redundant and 'plans' for extreme conditions - the fact that people living modern lifestyles are still alive at all is proof of that.

I think an increase in exercise would be easily accommodated by our biology.

Overexerting yourself will damage your body