C2C Balance Thread

[platyping]

What do you mean? The chance of something with a 1 in 100 chance of happening per try happening at least once after 500 tries is incredibly close to 1. Unless the getSorenRand function is broken somehow.

I do though like your idea to only give 1/3 of a GA on a victory. I'll try that, along with giving it the Morale III prereq.

In theory, yes.
In reality
1) In normal BTS, I wouldn't see how one single Unit can kill 500 units in one game.
A promotion that takes effects only none or once per game sounds lame.
If the effect is too strong in BTS, just reduce it, but let it occur more often.
2) The one that won the lottery may be another lucky fellow, while you tried your 499 tries.
3) It is definitely possible that after 500 tries you still do not trigger at all.
Try rolling a dice to get a 6. Although you should see a 6 every 6 tries, it is really all about luck.

 

[Hydromancerx]

That's also your 10th turn Not your 1st turn (turn 0 is the actual 1st turn). Was it the same then as it is now?

Well they need at least 1 turn in to account for the auto-build building like Homeless and Disease to really account for all factors.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

I do though like your idea to only give 1/3 of a GA on a victory. I'll try that, along with giving it the Morale III prereq.

I would raise the chance a bit, to 5% maybe, and cut the length to 1/10 or so. A bit less random, still not totally OP.

 

[ls612]

I would raise the chance a bit, to 5% maybe, and cut the length to 1/10 or so. A bit less random, still not totally OP.

OK, here is the way it should work now.

Heroic I will give the normal bonuses but NOT the python GA code, and require being led by a Great General AND Combat IV as prerequisites.

Heroic II will require Heroic I and give the python GA, with a 5% chance of triggering for 20% of a Golden Age (if it was 10% it would give nothing on Normal speed).

I'll be pushing these changes to the SVN shortly.

 

[platyping]

You can always set a minimum value to 1 turn

 

[Sgtslick]

I posted this in 'subdued animal' thread but it was the wrong thread apparently so ill post it here.
"So I have 2 settled slaves now in my capital like 50 turns into the game from some wanders dying to elephants. On one occasion the stupid elephant just walked off and I was able to capture the slave since he just sat there in an undefended tile, the other occasion I had to finish off an elephant.

If slaves appear from animals, the animals need to guard them imo.

Also I think this is just bad generally. 2 settled slaves this early, although I get +2 unhappy +2 unhealth, the +2 food, +6 hammers and +2 commerce is bloody awesome! Seems overpowered so early if u ask me. I think they shouldn't appear from animals, only barbarians/neanderthals etc."

 

[strategyonly]

I posted this in 'subdued animal' thread but it was the wrong thread apparently so ill post it here.
"So I have 2 settled slaves now in my capital like 50 turns into the game from some wanders dying to elephants. On one occasion the stupid elephant just walked off and I was able to capture the slave since he just sat there in an undefended tile, the other occasion I had to finish off an elephant.

If slaves appear from animals, the animals need to guard them imo.

Also I think this is just bad generally. 2 settled slaves this early, although I get +2 unhappy +2 unhealth, the +2 food, +6 hammers and +2 commerce is bloody awesome! Seems overpowered so early if u ask me. I think they shouldn't appear from animals, only barbarians/neanderthals etc."

Is this DH's NEW stuff he did, but i thought he said he wasn't going to do anything to the slaves till after Jan???? Might be something he was testing out, and just forgot he had put it in the SVN, got to wait for his response.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I posted this in 'subdued animal' thread but it was the wrong thread apparently so ill post it here.
"So I have 2 settled slaves now in my capital like 50 turns into the game from some wanders dying to elephants. On one occasion the stupid elephant just walked off and I was able to capture the slave since he just sat there in an undefended tile, the other occasion I had to finish off an elephant.

If slaves appear from animals, the animals need to guard them imo.

Also I think this is just bad generally. 2 settled slaves this early, although I get +2 unhappy +2 unhealth, the +2 food, +6 hammers and +2 commerce is bloody awesome! Seems overpowered so early if u ask me. I think they shouldn't appear from animals, only barbarians/neanderthals etc."

Slaves only appear from non animal (wild, subdued, tamed or canine) land units. They only appear 30% of the time and only for the attacker. Note: slaves and captured civilians have the same graphics.

I have not done anything new yet. I just got the slave system to work in v27. There is supposed to be some AI for slaves but it does not seem to be being used.

The correct thread is Slaves, Hostages and Prisoners of War .

I too think the current system is OP. Which is why I am changing it. Your chance to capture will be affected by the civics of the enemy and your civics. You will take captives which you may turn into slaves if you like but there will be other options. The returns from slaves will change with the civics you have.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I too think the current system is OP. Which is why I am changing it. Your chance to capture will be affected by the civics of the enemy and your civics. You will take captives which you may turn into slaves if you like but there will be other options. The returns from slaves will change with the civics you have.

It sure is fun though.

 

[Nimek]

I think the amount of frome trade routes is too big.

In my current game there is 4000BC and i have few cities aprox 30 city size (one even above)

Every city have a lot trade routes (from civics wonders and buildings) and each route give 2-6 per turn so cities grow 1 pop per 10-15 turns on snail, It spoils gameplay and make game too easy

 

[ls612]

I think the amount of frome trade routes is too big.

In my current game there is 4000BC and i have few cities aprox 30 city size (one even above)

Every city have a lot trade routes (from civics wonders and buildings) and each route give 2-6 per turn so cities grow 1 pop per 10-15 turns on snail, It spoils gameplay and make game too easy

What civics are you using? There is one early civic (can't remember which one OTOH) that give +75% from trade, so that may be the reason.

 

[Nimek]

@ls612

I cant check it now but i remember that i have it because i chose civcs, techs, buildings to grow as quickly as possible.

 

[Nimek]

Latest svn revolutions on

It almost Oad now on snail and I expend very quickly but I have no problem with any riots. When last I played v25 I have a lot of riots in my gamestyle. Someone spoil rev modifiers since that time. Please make rev modiffiers difficulty dependent because now game on king is far too easy.

 

[ls612]

Latest svn revolutions on

It almost Oad now on snail and I expend very quickly but I have no problem with any riots. When last I played v25 I have a lot of riots in my gamestyle. Someone spoil rev modifiers since that time. Please make rev modiffiers difficulty dependent because now game on king is far too easy.

I need way more info to say whether or not that is a problem. What difficulty? What civ and leader? How much do you invest in Guards (and other crime reducing buildings, crime increases REV)?

 

[JJOne]

In V28 the withdrawal promotion is way too easy exploitable.
Take the first Great general, get him with a hunter three withdrawal promos, combine it with some chariots with 5 XP, also withdrawal promoted, and some defensive units (explorers do the job), and you get an unbeatable experience farming machine: the chariots withdraw every time and get either instant promotions or a very high amount of XP, plus XP for your great general.
The solution would be to give no experience for withdrawals with 100% survival chance, or cap the withdrawal chance at 95%.
Before it was much less significant, because you had to sacrifice one GG for each horseman / chariot in order to get him to 100% withdrawal.

 

[ls612]

In V28 the withdrawal promotion is way too easy exploitable.
Take the first Great general, get him with a hunter three withdrawal promos, combine it with some chariots with 5 XP, also withdrawal promoted, and some defensive units (explorers do the job), and you get an unbeatable experience farming machine: the chariots withdraw every time and get either instant promotions or a very high amount of XP, plus XP for your great general.
The solution would be to give no experience for withdrawals with 100% survival chance, or cap the withdrawal chance at 95%.
Before it was much less significant, because you had to sacrifice one GG for each horseman / chariot in order to get him to 100% withdrawal.

A better idea would be to make Withdrawal changes multiplicative instead of additive, that way you would see diminishing returns from stacking those modifiers.

 

[Nimek]

@ls612

I attached save game. I conquer city by city and look at my revolt screen is good everywhere and improving. Someone spoil entire revolution mod

 

[Koshling]

A better idea would be to make Withdrawal changes multiplicative instead of additive, that way you would see diminishing returns from stacking those modifiers.

It's supposed to be capped. TB is the expert on that area, but it's most definately supposed to be capped.

 

[ls612]

It's supposed to be capped. TB is the expert on that area, but it's most definately supposed to be capped.

Maybe he broke it with one of his changes? At any rate I'll look at it tomorrow.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well:
a) it should be successfully capping at 95% IF no units or promos in the game are set up with pursuit values. If you see otherwise in a game I'd like to profile that save.

b) I also just changed, in this version (on the SVN) the experience point award for withdrawal. It was set at an astronomical 3 per withdrawal flat amount. Now it ranges from 1-4 based on the difficulty of the withdrawal - directly correlates to the % chance of withdrawal (inversely) thus if you have a 75%+ chance of withdrawal, your unit will only be receiving 1 xp, which would be most successful withdrawals I imagine.

c) if by chance the % is not capping properly, no experience would be awarded for a withdrawal over 100% likely.

Even in such situations, a unit that withdraws is always going to be somewhat vulnerable to being attacked the next round as generally units only withdraw when they are about to die unless we're talking about a special case scenario. Other units can protect them, sure, but strategically, it is not something that can't be overcome and a unit that has 100% withdrawal still has no guarantee of actually doing any damage in the battle before its retreat.

But yeah, without the use of Pursuit in the game, it should be limited to 95% after all compiled modifiers.