C2C Balance Thread

[strategyonly]

You seriously don't believe that +4 from leader trait in combination of a bunch of +0.4 from forests in combination with fresh water doesn't push you over the base ?

I am still with JosEPh_II here, screenie - - - - -

 

[Sgtslick]

I was thinking about industrious trait earlier and I want to reduce its world wonder modifier to like 15-20% (it gets other stuff don't worry), but it reminded me - it seems somewhat pointless coz most of the wonders get HUGE production buffs from having marble/stone. I would love to see these bonuses reduced greatly, to like 15%-30% instead of 50%-100%. Wonders should be a significant investment and a strategy 'choice' imo. Currently I feel its just a no brainer, if you can build a wonder you pretty much always will build it. Also with these modifiers reduced the AI's inherent production bonus (at higher difficulties) will play more of a factor in them being able to snag some.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I play with an expansive leader, I don't believe you can get less that 5 in a starting city. That is my starting value in all my latest games.

 

[strategyonly]

I play with an expansive leader, I don't believe you can get less that 5 in a starting city. That is my starting value in all my latest games.

Now that i can believe. . . SO

 

[ls612]

On slower gamespeeds where golden ages last 100+ turns, it's extremely likely that you will get a new golden age during your current one if your heroic unit keeps fighting, and with plentiful animals and barbarians around, not to mention minor civs, there's no reason to stop fighting with it. You could effectively farm cities for golden ages.

Yeah, the new Heroic promo is OP. Giving Golden Ages for combat victories is in my opinion not a good idea, because it does not scale well as the game gets bigger.

What I mean is, the main way that you get GAs is by either building Wonders or using GPs. The Wonders are limited and competitive and the GP GAs scale so you need 1 Great Person for the first one, 2 GPs for the second one, 3 GPs for the third one, and so on. This allows it to scale OK into the late game. But having a unit that has a 5% chance on combat victory to make a GA is bad balance IMO.

If it were up to me it would be a Great General promotion (like the early Mountaineering) and only give a 1% chance for a GA. That would likely be balanced.

What do you think about that SO?

 

[strategyonly]

Yeah, the new Heroic promo is OP. Giving Golden Ages for combat victories is in my opinion not a good idea, because it does not scale well as the game gets bigger.

What I mean is, the main way that you get GAs is by either building Wonders or using GPs. The Wonders are limited and competitive and the GP GAs scale so you need 1 Great Person for the first one, 2 GPs for the second one, 3 GPs for the third one, and so on. This allows it to scale OK into the late game. But having a unit that has a 5% chance on combat victory to make a GA is bad balance IMO.

If it were up to me it would be a Great General promotion (like the early Mountaineering) and only give a 1% chance for a GA. That would likely be balanced.

What do you think about that SO?

OK, thats what i wanted at least a little feedback, thx, MaXimillionZero & ls612, go ahead and make the changes you want, now i will be doing little projects like these, so again i will be needing more feedback.

 

[ls612]

OK, thats what i wanted at least a little feedback, thx, MaXimillionZero & ls612, go ahead and make the changes you want, now i will be doing little projects like these, so again i will be needing more feedback.

OK, done now on the SVN. It now requires Morale IV and gives a 1% chance for a GA on a victory, so that should make it more balanced.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The other time you got a golden age was the first time you attacked and won with your UU.

 

[aoklo]

I am still with JosEPh_II here, screenie - - - - -

Apparently not as difficult as you would think!
This is on Immortal/Marathon setting.
Playing as Suivarya...man or however you spell that guys name.
Expansive/Seafarer/Cruel

 

[ls612]

Apparently not as difficult as you would think!
This is on Immortal/Marathon setting.
Playing as Suivarya...man or however you spell that guys name.
Expansive/Seafarer/Cruel

The Expansive trait would do it. That is where some of that +5 comes from, that case is exceptional.

 

[strategyonly]

OK, done now on the SVN. It now requires Morale IV and gives a 1% chance for a GA on a victory, so that should make it more balanced.

OK whats the difference

if CyGame().getSorenRandNum([U]20[/U], "Golden Age") == 0:

and this one:

if CyGame().getSorenRandNum([U]100[/U], "Golden Age") == 0:

 

[ls612]

OK whats the difference

if CyGame().getSorenRandNum([U]20[/U], "Golden Age") == 0:

and this one:

if CyGame().getSorenRandNum([U]100[/U], "Golden Age") == 0:

I think that that is a 1 in x chance of happening, because it was 5% before (or 1 in 20). If it isn't I'll fix it.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Apparently not as difficult as you would think!
This is on Immortal/Marathon setting.
Playing as Suivarya...man or however you spell that guys name.
Expansive/Seafarer/Cruel

That's also your 10th turn Not your 1st turn (turn 0 is the actual 1st turn). Was it the same then as it is now?

Plus as ls612 said you have a leader with Expansive and Seafaring. Of the 100+ leaders maybe 3-4 have that combo. So yes it's possible, but not probable, unless you play with the same leader every time you play. And then if you do come in and say the games too easy on start up because I don't have too much is a poor sampling because you only use 1 leader or leader(s) with a particular trait. Too narrow of a sample for an analysis to be effective for the whole set.

JosEPh

 

[MaXimillionZero]

Plus as ls612 said you have a leader with Expansive and Seafaring. Of the 100+ leaders maybe 3-4 have that combo. So yes it's possible, but not probable, unless you play with the same leader every time you play.

Which is why I originally said starts like that are rare, but still exist.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

OK, done now on the SVN. It now requires Morale IV and gives a 1% chance for a GA on a victory, so that should make it more balanced.

platyping's promotion pack has a similar promotion, but it also has the golden ages given by it reduced in length. I think that would be a good addition to balancing the promotion, if we want to keep it. If the duration of the golden ages triggered by a single proc were only a few turns, I feel it would be a nice bonus without being completely gamechanging.

 

[aoklo]

That's also your 10th turn Not your 1st turn (turn 0 is the actual 1st turn). Was it the same then as it is now?

Plus as ls612 said you have a leader with Expansive and Seafaring. Of the 100+ leaders maybe 3-4 have that combo. So yes it's possible, but not probable, unless you play with the same leader every time you play. And then if you do come in and say the games too easy on start up because I don't have too much is a poor sampling because you only use 1 leader or leader(s) with a particular trait. Too narrow of a sample for an analysis to be effective for the whole set.

JosEPh

Same healthiness as turn 0 (Settled in turn 2 or 3, forgot). Turn 10 isnt enough to get or build anything to affect unhealthy.

And I was just showing that its possible... because you guys wanted a screenshot of it being possible

I dont have any opinions on games being too easy on start or whatever (I dont think I ever claimed such?). Actually the AI regularly beats me to all religions and wonders and to sedentary most of the time until mid ancient era.

 

[Sgtslick]

platyping's promotion pack has a similar promotion, but it also has the golden ages given by it reduced in length. I think that would be a good addition to balancing the promotion, if we want to keep it. If the duration of the golden ages triggered by a single proc were only a few turns, I feel it would be a nice bonus without being completely gamechanging.

Yeah thats what I was thinking, why not just make it only a 1 turn golden age (if thats possible), although this would still mean it is inherently more powerful on say normal speed compared to eternity. Hmm idk, 1% seems better overall now that I think about it.

 

[platyping]

Writing a code that triggers 1% of the time is a waste of time usually.
With a 1% chance to trigger, you may stand a better chance to win lottery than to see it actually occur even after 500 battles.
Yet, every battle, the if statement will be triggered to see if you have won the lottery.
In short, it is a waste of performance time to check the code every battle for something that is unlikely to trigger 99% of the time.

There are much better ways of limiting its potential such as:
A) Change the duration
1) Reduce the length simply by a %
2) Fix the length to X turns
3) Leave it as it is, but set a max limit

B) Triggers at certain situations
1) Only when defeated unit is also a Leader
2) Only when defeated unit is > Level 10
3) Only when won in Cities

blah blah blah

 

[ls612]

Writing a code that triggers 1% of the time is a waste of time usually.
With a 1% chance to trigger, you may stand a better chance to win lottery than to see it actually occur even after 500 battles.
Yet, every battle, the if statement will be triggered to see if you have won the lottery.
In short, it is a waste of performance time to check the code every battle for something that is unlikely to trigger 99% of the time.

There are much better ways of limiting its potential such as:
A) Change the duration
1) Reduce the length simply by a %
2) Fix the length to X turns
3) Leave it as it is, but set a max limit

B) Triggers at certain situations
1) Only when defeated unit is also a Leader
2) Only when defeated unit is > Level 10
3) Only when won in Cities

blah blah blah

What do you mean? The chance of something with a 1 in 100 chance of happening per try happening at least once after 500 tries is incredibly close to 1. Unless the getSorenRand function is broken somehow.

I do though like your idea to only give 1/3 of a GA on a victory. I'll try that, along with giving it the Morale III prereq.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Same healthiness as turn 0 (Settled in turn 2 or 3, forgot). Turn 10 isnt enough to get or build anything to affect unhealthy.

And I was just showing that its possible... because you guys wanted a screenshot of it being possible

I dont have any opinions on games being too easy on start or whatever (I dont think I ever claimed such?). Actually the AI regularly beats me to all religions and wonders and to sedentary most of the time until mid ancient era.

My last part wasn't directed to you specifically but to the previous post that claimed it was "easy" to get + Health in a starting city at game start.

I had forgotten that Organized had been reset Back to + 4 Health when not long ago it was reduced to +3. During the Trait Wars.

JosEPh