C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[Thunderbrd]

I would like to see some sort of crime-fighting civic for this game. Im in the digital age with the best low-revolt civics, and im still getting revolting cities on immortal diff.

Crime is not what you're fighting then. Its 'Instability' from the revolutions mechanism. And with civics recently completely revamped, this may take a bit to bring back into balance. I'm not sure how well thought through that complex element was in establishing the new civics but its a mechanism I've been wanting to understand better myself for some time now...

 

[makotech222]

Well, on the revolutions popup when things get unstable, all the 'bad' stuff thats increaing revolts is mostly crime. I have all of the buildings built in those cities too.

 

[LumenAngel]

Build at least 1 guard for 5 points of population (or 1 for 8 later if you use a city with lot of free XP building all your guard/police unites)
That will cost you less gold than crime

 

[LumenAngel]

After some useof the new Civics... Some idea

• Currency
  • Gold Standard : Allows construction of Fort Knox
  • Digital : Allows construction of E-bank
  • All except No currency and metals : Allow construction of Bank
  • Credit : +1
    
    with bank, Cental bank, Wall street instead of in all city
• Politics
  • Ownership : +2
    
    in each city (instead of +1) and -5% espionage. I find it really too powerful
  • Globalism : +1
    
    from Crime (Pickpoket)
  • NEW : Artificial Intelligence (Honor thy AI, because they know better) : +10% science in each city, -30% maintenance from numbers of city, -20% culture, +10% production, +10% gold and +1
    
    in each city, Allow construction to AI Palace
• Education
  • Time travel education : -10 science from Crime(Time paradox), allow construction of All-time university
• Military
  • Time drafting : -5 XP from Crime(Time paradox)
  • Cloning : Animal units trains 50% faster
  • Mercenaries: No upkeep, +2 gold (instead of +1) support cost for military units, -10% espionage (seams more logic for me, you pay only mrcenaries, and that's all. And have a good espionage with such greddy guys is not easy).

Building :
AI Palace : -20% maintenance, +1

Crime(Time paradox) : Reqs Time travel, exists above +400 crime,-10 science and gold, -20 espionnage
All-time university (National wonder) : +20% science, +5 culture, + 5 Great person (scientist), -20 gold maintenance

I have idea for Corpo-Nation, Globalism and Corporate Education, btut that would work better with Cyberpunk

 

[Mouthwash]

Some thoughts:

1. The planned economy shouldn't increase production; it should harm it because of the lack of economic calculation. Instead, the costs to rush buildings should be halved (because the government does it directly).

2. I don't understand how making the country officially atheist makes it "free." Are you saying that the Soviets never persecuted believers? There should most certainly be an option for inquisitions. I'm not going to call it a jab at religion, but still.

 

[Mouthwash]

 

[Vokarya]

My Field of the Cloth of Gold Wonder got added to the Adv_Civics_BuildingInfos.xml file. Does anyone mind if I delete it from there? I'd like to change the Civic Prerequisites to the Vassalage Power civic or the Feudal Society civic.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I removed one of my buildings from there. I don't see why you can't too. Note you may want to see what they changed since I added the changes to my file.

 

[lifehole]

I think all the new civics need a paragraph of description as they are kindof un-explanatory. And Lumens idea of AI rule is a great thing to go along with post scarcity and Coporation power civics.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think all the new civics need a paragraph of description as they are kindof un-explanatory.

+1 to that

 

[crazyewok]

Ok a few Ideas for future economy civics:

Energy based Currency: Basicly your people are paid in energy credits. All food, cloths and energy requimnets are deducted from the engergy credits one earns. Basicly every individual earns a similiar amount with bonous for certain unpleasent jobs. Explotation and greed are ment to be elimenated.

Bonuses:
High happiness.
High empire stability.
Slight incresae in production.(more effeicent production and a happy workforce)

Negatives:
Massive reduce in money income.
Corporations suffer.
Sligh decrease in science ( Some of the more greedy of your best and brigest will move to greener grass)


Time based currency, (If you seen the film in time you will know what im on about)
Basicly with genetical alterations that elimenate old age you can live forever BUT you have to earn time. Everyone is paid and pays in secounds, minutes and hours ect. If you run out of time your heart stops and you die.

Bonous:
Massive production and money increase ( If you dont work hard you die!)

Increase in science and culture (Your best and brightest can live forever with a eternity to develop things)


Negative:
Huge unrest and unhappiness throughout your empire. (your "poor" will resent the rich)

Unhealtness increase (The poorest will die quick or live in poverty to "save time")
Decrease in birth rate (the poor will die quick)

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Ok a few Ideas for future economy civics:

Energy based Currency: Basicly your people are paid in energy credits. All food, cloths and energy requimnets are deducted from the engergy credits one earns. Basicly every individual earns a similiar amount with bonous for certain unpleasent jobs. Explotation and greed are ment to be elimenated.

Bonuses:
High happiness.
High empire stability.
Slight incresae in production.(more effeicent production and a happy workforce)

Negatives:
Massive reduce in money income.
Corporations suffer.
Sligh decrease in science ( Some of the more greedy of your best and brigest will move to greener grass)


Time based currency, (If you seen the film in time you will know what im on about)
Basicly with genetical alterations that elimenate old age you can live forever BUT you have to earn time. Everyone is paid and pays in secounds, minutes and hours ect. If you run out of time your heart stops and you die.

Bonous:
Massive production and money increase ( If you dont work hard you die!)

Increase in science and culture (Your best and brightest can live forever with a eternity to develop things)


Negative:
Huge unrest and unhappiness throughout your empire. (your "poor" will resent the rich)

Unhealtness increase (The poorest will die quick or live in poverty to "save time")
Decrease in birth rate (the poor will die quick)

Very cool and original ideas. I like

 

[Thunderbrd]

From what I can understand of the post, it seems like some good thinking there but I'll leave it to the civic guys to work out if and how to implement it.

 

[Sgtslick]

Is there a way to scale negative aspects of traits to the difficulty level?
Things such as war wariness, unit maintenance, distance maintenance and such?

This would go along way to making the game a bit more difficult imo. Like instead of say +50% war wariness it would become +250% on deity, +200% immortal and so on.

There would be the problem of certain civics that are somewhat neutral (not many benefits and not many negatives) therefore becoming super overpowered because other civics that have negatives become far less attractive at higher difficulty.

 

[Koshling]

Is there a way to scale negative aspects of traits to the difficulty level?
Things such as war wariness, unit maintenance, distance maintenance and such?

This would go along way to making the game a bit more difficult imo. Like instead of say +50% war wariness it would become +250% on deity, +200% immortal and so on.

There would be the problem of certain civics that are somewhat neutral (not many benefits and not many negatives) therefore becoming super overpowered because other civics that have negatives become far less attractive at higher difficulty.

Most of those factors already scale with difficulty I think (maintenance certainly does - the difficulty modifier is applied on top of everything so trait-based maintenance should also scale up)

 

[CIVPlayer8]

After some useof the new Civics... Some idea

• Currency
  • Gold Standard : Allows construction of Fort Knox
  • Digital : Allows construction of E-bank
  • All except No currency and metals : Allow construction of Bank
  • Credit : +1
    
    with bank, Cental bank, Wall street instead of in all city
• Politics
  • Ownership : +2
    
    in each city (instead of +1) and -5% espionage. I find it really too powerful
  • Globalism : +1
    
    from Crime (Pickpoket)
  • NEW : Artificial Intelligence (Honor thy AI, because they know better) : +10% science in each city, -30% maintenance from numbers of city, -20% culture, +10% production, +10% gold and +1
    
    in each city, Allow construction to AI Palace
• Education
  • Time travel education : -10 science from Crime(Time paradox), allow construction of All-time university
• Military
  • Time drafting : -5 XP from Crime(Time paradox)
  • Cloning : Animal units trains 50% faster
  • Mercenaries: No upkeep, +2 gold (instead of +1) support cost for military units, -10% espionage (seams more logic for me, you pay only mrcenaries, and that's all. And have a good espionage with such greddy guys is not easy).

Building :
AI Palace : -20% maintenance, +1

Crime(Time paradox) : Reqs Time travel, exists above +400 crime,-10 science and gold, -20 espionnage
All-time university (National wonder) : +20% science, +5 culture, + 5 Great person (scientist), -20 gold maintenance

I have idea for Corpo-Nation, Globalism and Corporate Education, btut that would work better with Cyberpunk

Noted. Good ideas here

Anywho, I was thinking about all the discussion about Slavery, and it got me thinking. We need to get it out of the Economy Civic Category. Doesn't belong there. But remeber the Labor Civic Category in Civilization 4 vanilla? This is where slavery originally went. So here are the options.

New Home for Slavery:​

1. Recreate the "Labor" Civic Category, and put other Civics in here (such as Serfdom, Skilled Labor, etc.)
2. Create a category just for Slavery. Options will be "No Slavery", "Slavery", and "Emanicpation".

So, which do YOU guys prefer?​

 

[strategyonly]

Noted. Good ideas here

Anywho, I was thinking about all the discussion about Slavery, and it got me thinking. We need to get it out of the Economy Civic Category. Doesn't belong there. But remeber the Labor Civic Category in Civilization 4 vanilla? This is where slavery originally went. So here are the options.

New Home for Slavery:​

1. Recreate the "Labor" Civic Category, and put other Civics in here (such as Serfdom, Skilled Labor, etc.)
2. Create a category just for Slavery. Options will be "No Slavery", "Slavery", and "Emanicpation".

So, which do YOU guys prefer?​

Well even today, there is Slavery in one sort or the other, so take a gander at whats its really all about, its just not Black people, remember Spartacus (and all the Gladiators) were slaves also . . .

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Well even today, there is Slavery in one sort or the other, so take a gander at whats its really all about, its just not Black people, remember Spartacus (and all the Gladiators) were slaves also . . .

Yeah, and the Chinese with Koreans... I think it'll do well in the big picture to put it in the "Labor" category.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Labor would be a good category. Here is what Afforess was planing for RoM/AND ...

Labor

Survivalism (Available at Start)

• No Upkeep

Slavery (Requires: Slavery)

• Medium Upkeep
• +1 Unhealthiness
• -2 diplomatic penalty, "Your Barbaric Practices Anger Us!"
• +1 from , plantations, olive farms, silk farms, wineries
• +1 from mines, shaft mines, modern mines, quarries, lumbermills, workshops
• +1 from farms
• Cities require 1 garrison per 2 population, for each garrison missing, the city gets +2 unhappiness
• Cities grow 100% Slower
• Free Slave Specialist in all cities
• Can Construct the Slave Market

Serfdom (Requires: Vassalage)

• Low Upkeep
• -1 Happiness in largest cities
• -1 diplomatic penalty, "You Oppress your People!"
• +1 gold from Apple Orchard, Plantations, Silk Farm, Farms, Cottages, Hamlets, Villages, Towns
• +1 unhealthiness from Cottages, Hamlets, Villages, Towns
• Cities grow 10% Slower

Caste (Requires: Caste System)

• Medium Upkeep
• All specialists can be used with no limits
• -1 Happiness in largest cities
• Cities grow 5% Slower
• +25% Gold in Capital City
• +10% Gold in all cities
• -15% Military Unit Production

Centralized Labor (Requires: Marxism)

• High Upkeep
• All specialists can be used with no limits
• +10% Production
• +1 Production from Mines, Shaft Mine, Modern Mine, Workshop
• +10% Gold in Capital City

Organized Labor (Requires: Economics)

• High Upkeep
• +1 Happiness in largest cities
• +30% Corporation Maintenance
• +1 production from Cottages, Hamlets, Villages, Towns

Private Labor (Requires: Economics)

• Medium Upkeep
• +20% Production
• -15% Corporation Maintenance
• -10% City Maintenance
• +10% Commerce

Post-Labor (Requires: Androids)

• Astronomical Upkeep
• Population does not contribute to unhealthiness
• Cities grow 25% Faster
• +3 Happiness in Largest Cities

I personally think we should use this as our base and then expand and tweak it to how we want for C2C.

 

[Taxman66]

I don't agree with this suggestion at all. The penalties for Slavery & Serfdom are so high, I wouldn't move off survivalism. Doubling the food needed to grow is a massive penalty. Unhealthiness for every cottage/hamlet etc... isn't quite as bad, but add on the additional 10% growth penalty it is not worth it for the little bit of extra gold.