C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

Free Church.

And where do you get that from Praetyre? Free church has always been about allowing multiple religions in your Empire. Not about the Papcy.

These are the very reasons that Power inducing Civics need to be pulled out of the Religion Civics and placed where they belong.

JosEPh
Joseph, I think you might be misreading it. Free Church basically is where the Church is free of any state control. Secular represents where there is no establishment of state religion, not neccesarily a "secular" society. Do you think we should rename them to something else?

@Hydro
I saw in the other post you were planning maybe a "Housing Civic" and maybe an "Electricity Civic". What are your thoughts on this? Also, I'm brainstorming many Civic-Specific buildings, so I'll post them later on.
 
If I'm misreading it, it's in it's application. I agree that originally CIV IV Free Church had the meaning you just posted. But that's Not how it's been used for a long long time. Nor how it's currently being used either.

Renaming might be a step in the right direction for a starter.

I still contend though, that Religion Civics need to deal with just Religious aspects. The power plays that come from the leaders of different religions and religious run empires need to be in the Power Civics and or Gov't Civics. This is probably a radical change for how many perceive this category. So the last 3 in the Religion Civic category should be moved as I stated earlier.

That's how I see it. And how I would prefer to use it.

JosEPh
 
Since the other thread was locked ...

@LumenAngel
I dont really see what can be put in "Electricity civics"...
If we begin to have lot of new civics, I would prefer some "Labor civics" or some new futur civics (lot of thing can be done with cloning/mind uploading/timetravel)

The electricity mod would be based on Afforess' Rewritten Civics.

Spoiler :
Electricity

No Electricity (Available at Start)
  • No Upkeep


Private Energy (Requires: Electricity)

  • Low Upkeep
  • -25% City Maintenance
  • -25% Distance costs
  • +5% Commerce output
  • +2 Unhealthiness


Public Energy (Requires: Electricity)
  • High Upkeep
  • -25% City Maintenance
  • -25% Distance costs
  • +1 Healthiness


Green Energy (Requires: Ecology)
  • Astronomical Upkeep
  • +5 Healthiness
  • +2 Happiness in largest cities
  • Population is less rebellious

@Nimek
You want to add electricity as a property but
It shouldnt cumulate like others properties because we dont have any tech to starage such big amounts of energy.

Take a look at my old topic from RoM/AND. It includes that factor.

Power Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=343423

@LumenAngel
It's not about storage, it's must like a Sim City.
You need to have XXX Mw/h for all your buildings, so you need 1 nuclear, 1 solar panel and 1 hamster running in his cage. You add them, you soustract how many do you need, and if it's negative, kaboom

And first for the idea of subdue hamster to have more electrecity

Sadly we do not have a subdued hamster. :p

@Praetyre
The problem is that the actual number of buildings represented by a building would scale with city size; this is why I strongly favor +X per population bonuses rather than simple whole chunk schemes.

That's is one of the many reasons why I have been putting off this mod. Its not broke, but its not optimal yet either. I would much rather work on stuff that is not been made yet than to redo the electricity mod yet.

@Hydro
I saw in the other post you were planning maybe a "Housing Civic" and maybe an "Electricity Civic". What are your thoughts on this? Also, I'm brainstorming many Civic-Specific buildings, so I'll post them later on.

See above. Also here are the stats of the Housing Mod, taken from Afforess' Rewritten Civics as well.

Spoiler :
Housing

State-Owned Land (Available at Start)

  • No Upkeep
  • Cities grow 25% Slower
  • -35% Commerce
  • +200% Espionage
  • +100% City Maintenance
  • Population is more rebellious


Communal Land (Available at Start)

  • No Upkeep
  • Cities Grow 15% Slower
  • -25% Commerce
  • -1 Happiness in largest cities
  • -25% City Maintenance



Fiefdom (Requires: Vassalage)

  • Medium Upkeep
  • Cities Grow 3% Faster
  • -2 happiness in largest cities
  • Improvements grow 25% Slower
  • +10% Commerce in Capitol City
  • Population is more rebellious


Private Ownership (Requires: Banking)
  • Low Upkeep
  • +15% Commerce
  • +1 Unhealthiness in all cities
  • Improvements grow 35% Faster
  • Cities Grow 8% Faster
  • -25% Corporation Costs
  • -50% Espionage
  • Population is less rebellious

Subsidized Land (Requires: Social Contract)

  • High Upkeep
  • Cities Grow 10% Faster
  • +1 Healthiness in all cities
  • +20% City Maintenance
  • +15% Espionage

We obviously would have to adjust for C2C and its earlier eras and different techs as well as balance issues.
 
Since the other thread was locked ...

@LumenAngel


The electricity mod would be based on Afforess' Rewritten Civics.

Spoiler :
Electricity

No Electricity (Available at Start)
  • No Upkeep


Private Energy (Requires: Electricity)

  • Low Upkeep
  • -25% City Maintenance
  • -25% Distance costs
  • +5% Commerce output
  • +2 Unhealthiness


Public Energy (Requires: Electricity)
  • High Upkeep
  • -25% City Maintenance
  • -25% Distance costs
  • +1 Healthiness


Green Energy (Requires: Ecology)
  • Astronomical Upkeep
  • +5 Healthiness
  • +2 Happiness in largest cities
  • Population is less rebellious

@Nimek


Take a look at my old topic from RoM/AND. It includes that factor.

Power Mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=343423

@LumenAngel


Sadly we do not have a subdued hamster. :p

@Praetyre


That's is one of the many reasons why I have been putting off this mod. Its not broke, but its not optimal yet either. I would much rather work on stuff that is not been made yet than to redo the electricity mod yet.



See above. Also here are the stats of the Housing Mod, taken from Afforess' Rewritten Civics as well.

Spoiler :
Housing

State-Owned Land (Available at Start)

  • No Upkeep
  • Cities grow 25% Slower
  • -35% Commerce
  • +200% Espionage
  • +100% City Maintenance
  • Population is more rebellious


Communal Land (Available at Start)

  • No Upkeep
  • Cities Grow 15% Slower
  • -25% Commerce
  • -1 Happiness in largest cities
  • -25% City Maintenance



Fiefdom (Requires: Vassalage)

  • Medium Upkeep
  • Cities Grow 3% Faster
  • -2 happiness in largest cities
  • Improvements grow 25% Slower
  • +10% Commerce in Capitol City
  • Population is more rebellious


Private Ownership (Requires: Banking)
  • Low Upkeep
  • +15% Commerce
  • +1 Unhealthiness in all cities
  • Improvements grow 35% Faster
  • Cities Grow 8% Faster
  • -25% Corporation Costs
  • -50% Espionage
  • Population is less rebellious

Subsidized Land (Requires: Social Contract)

  • High Upkeep
  • Cities Grow 10% Faster
  • +1 Healthiness in all cities
  • +20% City Maintenance
  • +15% Espionage

We obviously would have to adjust for C2C and its earlier eras and different techs as well as balance issues.

about houses. what about a state owned houses like the soviet union.State-Owned Land is very close to what i am suggesting but i have some objections
1 the fact that is availiable from start. how you can have a state run something when you dont have a state
2 bonous are a bit off. historically communist regimes make people had more kids and one reason is the free houses
 
about houses. what about a state owned houses like the soviet union.State-Owned Land is very close to what i am suggesting but i have some objections
1 the fact that is availiable from start. how you can have a state run something when you dont have a state
2 bonous are a bit off. historically communist regimes make people had more kids and one reason is the free houses

Like I said we would have to change it to C2C. Possibly changing stats and adding in other civic choices that make more sense for our game.

Its also why I put a "Maybe" next to it on my TODO list.
 
why provides the civic private free health to the slum building line ( slums shanty towns gettos ) and subsidized not ?
 
bureaucracy could increase production of administrative buildings. i mean if your country is ruled by a bunsch of bureaucrats, they would priorize the building of administrations and departmens to strengthen their own power.

10-20% production for the town hall line, departemnt of water, department of energy, bureau of farm management, forbidden palace! ( chinese bureaucrats ruled the empire from there while the emperor was more a prissoner than a ruler in the late time of chinese empire), department of motor vehicles and welfare office. i probalby miss several buildings. the downside could be a gold malus from every of these building to represent an oversized bureaucracy that evolve over time

matriachiy should increase womens surfage by 100 % ? i mean your society is ruled by women and they havent the right to vote ? sems strange to me

totalitarism should increase the building production (again maybe 10-20%) on the berlin wall, the military satelites, propaganda offices, AI surveilance, propaganda satelites, ore radar station
totalitarian nations wants to controll their population in any possible way. some of the buildings i mentioned where civic buildings of different civics but totalitarism would benefits from them as well

democracy should have a little bit -:gold: to represent the enormous costs of election campaigns
the price for liberty

liberalism should increase the production of printing press and their upgrade, national tv station and things like the comic book store to represent the freedom of opinion

public works is all about giving the population work. the state normaly accomplishs this trough huge infrastructural projects. so public works should increase the production of the streets building line, highway, walls , high walls, irigation canels, aqueducts( yes i know aqueducts still get a health bonus ), the golden spike ( a railway from the one end of the continent to the other need a lot of workers i think) route 66 (the same reason as golden spike)

divine cult means the ruler is worshiped as a god. and what have the several god kings done during human history ? yes they build themselves huge tombs. so the civic should increase the production of all the tombs we have. again maybe 10-20 % ( i am aware that it is realy powerfull but reasonable). we have the pyrmides ( i mean just the egyptians) valley of kings, royal tomps, terracotta army, taj mahal and mausoleum. maybe even munument of the dictator. and dont forget the ancient and the modern emballer ore the alchemist workshop. divine rulers were obsessed with the idea of eternal life ore at least the conservation of there boddies for eternity.

globalism could increase the production of unitet nations and the unesco building
 
Good ideas.

Matriarchy should also increase the speed of building the Venus wonder and child birth huts. I would also give it a cultural boost to match the production boost that patriarchy has.
 
Good ideas.

Matriarchy should also increase the speed of building the Venus wonder and child birth huts. I would also give it a cultural boost to match the production boost that patriarchy has.

I agree its not that much difference right now and i just bypass Patriarchy, because they both seem to happen around the same time period.

I also want ONE more civic to have fixed borders, i really like them, and yes i know others HATE them, but not me.:p

Oh good. Then I don't have to change anything in my files. The civics people would have to code for that. Cool. :D

It might be awhile, he's having a hard time in RL right now . . .
 
Get rid of Slavery/Slave Labor as a civic completely. Instead have Slaves available at Slavery and have +/- on the various civics foe each slave you have.

OK what does this civic represent? I think it needs some statement on that before I can agree with either of you.;)
Okay, I have thought about this, and I like this idea, Mr. Hoskuld. Civics such as Liberalism and Egalitarian will reduce its effect, while Totalitarianism, Caste, and Serfdom increase its effects. Thus, these are the Labor civics:
-Unorganized Labor (People do really what they want, when they want)
-Community Labor (The Community Leader organizes the labor for the betterment of society)
-Professional Labor (Too large a population for management, people now specialize in a skill, and sell that skill)
-Serfdom (Think Medieval Europe, Peasants, Nobles, and Kings)
-Organized Labor (People now work for corporations, as these provide the best pay)
-Centralized Labor (Labor is State-Owned)
-Socialized Labor (Labor is built on Socialism and its Labor Unions)
-Post-Scarcity (Machines manufacture products so easily, there is not much need for human labor)
 
Okay, I have thought about this, and I like this idea, Mr. Hoskuld. Civics such as Liberalism and Egalitarian will reduce its effect, while Totalitarianism, Caste, and Serfdom increase its effects. Thus, these are the Labor civics:
-Unorganized Labor (People do really what they want, when they want)
-Community Labor (The Community Leader organizes the labor for the betterment of society)
-Professional Labor (Too large a population for management, people now specialize in a skill, and sell that skill)
-Serfdom (Think Medieval Europe, Peasants, Nobles, and Kings)
-Organized Labor (People now work for corporations, as these provide the best pay)
-Centralized Labor (Labor is State-Owned)
-Socialized Labor (Labor is built on Socialism and its Labor Unions)
-Post-Scarcity (Machines manufacture products so easily, there is not much need for human labor)

I like this very much, and added back in Serfdom :)
 
Okay, I have thought about this, and I like this idea, Mr. Hoskuld. Civics such as Liberalism and Egalitarian will reduce its effect, while Totalitarianism, Caste, and Serfdom increase its effects. Thus, these are the Labor civics:
-Unorganized Labor (People do really what they want, when they want)
-Community Labor (The Community Leader organizes the labor for the betterment of society)
-Professional Labor (Too large a population for management, people now specialize in a skill, and sell that skill)
-Serfdom (Think Medieval Europe, Peasants, Nobles, and Kings)
-Organized Labor (People now work for corporations, as these provide the best pay)
-Centralized Labor (Labor is State-Owned)
-Socialized Labor (Labor is built on Socialism and its Labor Unions)
-Post-Scarcity (Machines manufacture products so easily, there is not much need for human labor)

My recommended techs ...

- Unorganized Labor (None)
- Community Labor (Cooperation)
- Professional Labor (Currency)
- Serfdom (Vassalage)
- Organized Labor (Economics)
- Centralized Labor (Marxism)
- Socialized Labor (Labor Union)
- Post-Scarcity (Androids)

I also think you should have ...

- Caste Labor (Caste System)
- Private Labor (Economics)

And then chnage Serfdom to "Serf Labor" so we can tell its a Labor civic.

EDIT: And "Post-Scarcity" to "Post-Labor". Since "Post-Scarcity" is already the name of an economic civic.
 
Wow, I had hoped I could finish tonight, but I'll have to finish tommorow.
My recommended techs ...

- Unorganized Labor (None)
- Community Labor (Cooperation)
- Professional Labor (Currency)
- Serfdom (Vassalage)
- Organized Labor (Economics)
- Centralized Labor (Marxism)
- Socialized Labor (Labor Union)
- Post-Scarcity (Androids)

I also think you should have ...

- Caste Labor (Caste System)
- Private Labor (Economics)
I don't really want to add Caste Labor unless there is some way to make it require the Caste Society. And whats the difference between Private and Professional Labor?
And then chnage Serfdom to "Serf Labor" so we can tell its a Labor civic.
Will do.
EDIT: And "Post-Scarcity" to "Post-Labor". Since "Post-Scarcity" is already the name of an economic civic.
And yes, I'm just porting it over from economy, because it belongs more in Labor.
 
1. I think there was talk about it back with RoM/AND about having different civics that require other civics. However I do not think the code ever got made for it.

2. Well in the Afforess model there was not Professional Labor. As for Private Labor its basically like Private enterprise Controlled labor vs Organized Labor which would be government based labor. Note that Centralized Labor is similar but more in the lines communist style labor. I can only assume that Professional Labor uses specialists (similar to caste system) and/or trained workers rather than untrained workers. Personally I think "Caste Labor" fits better than "Professional Labor". Since under Cast Labor you would have Trained Workers as well as untrained workers.

3. Well still change the name (not the tag) of the Post-Scarcity to "Post-Labor" so all the labor civis have the word "Labor" in them for easy reference.
 
Hmm, is it to late to put my 50 cents in?

I wish you guys could update the first post (or a post) as to what ideas / changes you will be making to the civic with the next update. Or even what you plan on changing?

I've been reading the past few pages, and am completely lost as to the answer I am looking for. There are some government / power entries that are not quite in the right place. As a Republic is a 'power', not a 'government' and ect ect. Like, America has a Federal Government, but is a Republic, for example this is the wiki definition of a republic: "Today the term republic still most commonly means a system of government which derives its power from the people rather than from another basis, such as heredity or divine right. This remains the primary definition of republic in most contexts."

Soo, I am wondering if you guys are up to with regards to where you are going for the next update?
 
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