C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

[Faustmouse]

Maybe the Ecologist should be a Specialist but not a unit. Or maybe an upgradable building.

 

[CIVPlayer8]

Alright, I think I might as well share this idea I came up with awhile back...
Two New Properties: Unemployment & Homelessness​

-These two properties will function more like the "Flammability" property, which is more static, than the 'Crime" property, which diffuses over tiles.
-Unemployment: As the population grows, so does unemployment. However, with each building that requires work to be done, (Stick gatherer, factory, Police Station,etc.) the unemployment decreases. If there is not enough unemployment in the city, then new buildings you construct have no effect! This will stop young cities from having a ridiculous amount of +1 gold buildings. This will also give a great new meaning to the Labor civic you choose.
-Homelessness:Same as Unemployment, the Homelessness property grows with the population. Similar to unemployment, you can decrease this with houses. In each city, it is possible to have 1 of each low density house, 2 of each medium density, and 3 of each high density. Eventually, the default housing will not be enough to hold your citizens. Then, you will have to build the cottage improvement to support new citizens. With each cottage, you can make 3 of each low density and 1 medium, with the hamlet you can make 2 low 3 medium, with the village you can make 1 low 3 medium and 1 high. With the town you make 2 medium and 4 high. Hope that wasn't too hard to follow. Yes, this idea will require homes to no longer be autobuilt. Please consider. Thanks for reading.

Regarding the civics, I would rather not the civics directly influence properties such as air pollution. I would much rather the buildings they unlock reduce air pollution.

 

[JosEPh_II]

This will stop young cities from having a ridiculous amount of +1 gold buildings. This will also give a great new meaning to the Labor civic you choose.

I can see this maybe working for the slower game speeds (were Gold flows like honey) but will cripple Epic and Normal (were you have to Really manage your Gold and Every gold producing bldg is a Must have).

JosEPh

 

[wolfensoul9]

I can see this maybe working for the slower game speeds (were Gold flows like honey) but will cripple Epic and Normal (were you have to Really manage your Gold and Every gold producing bldg is a Must have).

JosEPh

It still baffles me how a simple contracting of turns makes the gold so much harder to acquire.

It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[JosEPh_II]

But you did see it in the Challenge game, right?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well at some point we will have to add a bunch of Galactic Era units, such as spacecraft. What are you going to do then?

It has nothing to do with the era! I will need to many units at the same time.

In an old game I would need 1-2 defenders plus a spy in each city; two bands/armies one for defense (8-10) units and one attack (12-16 units extras being siege and healer); 10-25 dogs patrolling my borders; 5 hunters out hunting; 10-20 workers and maybe a few specialists as well. Oh plus animals and missionaries.

Now I need 2-5 crime fighters per city, 1-2 healers per city and 1-2 environmentalists per city. OR 4-9 extra per city. This means that I have too many units when I get over 20 cities.

I would have been much happier if the anti-crime, anti-disease etc was done with buildings not units.

Alright, I think I might as well share this idea I came up with awhile back...
Two New Properties: Unemployment & Homelessness​

-These two properties will function more like the "Flammability" property, which is more static, than the 'Crime" property, which diffuses over tiles.
-Unemployment: As the population grows, so does unemployment. However, with each building that requires work to be done, (Stick gatherer, factory, Police Station,etc.) the unemployment decreases. If there is not enough unemployment in the city, then new buildings you construct have no effect! This will stop young cities from having a ridiculous amount of +1 gold buildings. This will also give a great new meaning to the Labor civic you choose.
-Homelessness:Same as Unemployment, the Homelessness property grows with the population. Similar to unemployment, you can decrease this with houses. In each city, it is possible to have 1 of each low density house, 2 of each medium density, and 3 of each high density. Eventually, the default housing will not be enough to hold your citizens. Then, you will have to build the cottage improvement to support new citizens. With each cottage, you can make 3 of each low density and 1 medium, with the hamlet you can make 2 low 3 medium, with the village you can make 1 low 3 medium and 1 high. With the town you make 2 medium and 4 high. Hope that wasn't too hard to follow. Yes, this idea will require homes to no longer be autobuilt. Please consider. Thanks for reading.

Regarding the civics, I would rather not the civics directly influence properties such as air pollution. I would much rather the buildings they unlock reduce air pollution.

Is this going to be based on population or the number that represents population? A size one city has what about 1000 people in it.

I don't like the housing concept at all, not the way it was nor the way you are suggestion, not even the auto build that is in there now, but I can live with this last as it does make a very small bit of sense.

Edit - thinking further on the need people to run buildings - I would prefer not to be able to build buildings if they are not going to be worked. Also we would need to be able to show this on the city/buildings some how and allow the player to switch workers from one building to another.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@CIVPlayer8

Please hold off on the Unemployment & Homelessness stuff. I have some ideas in mind but don't want to introduce it at this time.

@Dancing Hoskuld

It has nothing to do with the era! I will need to many units at the same time.

In an old game I would need 1-2 defenders plus a spy in each city; two bands/armies one for defense (8-10) units and one attack (12-16 units extras being siege and healer); 10-25 dogs patrolling my borders; 5 hunters out hunting; 10-20 workers and maybe a few specialists as well. Oh plus animals and missionaries.

Now I need 2-5 crime fighters per city, 1-2 healers per city and 1-2 environmentalists per city. OR 4-9 extra per city. This means that I have too many units when I get over 20 cities.

I would have been much happier if the anti-crime, anti-disease etc was done with buildings not units.

I thought you were meaning that your computer could not take more units. If its just having too many per era that's a whole other issue. Plus weren't you going to introduce some Diplomat and POW units too Not to mention land mine and water mine units? The Ecology type units would not appear until the Renaissance Era anyways.

And some buildings DO give anti-crime, anti-disease and even anti-pollution. The units are there to pick up the slack in balance if you do not have enough of those buildings available.

 

[strategyonly]

Plus weren't you going to introduce some Diplomat and POW units too Not to mention land mine and water mine units? The Ecology type units would not appear until the Renaissance Era anyways.

I hope so, i have somethings planned when he does do this, "if" it works that is.

 

[wolfensoul9]

But you did see it in the Challenge game, right?

JosEPh

I did indeed. I just wish I knew what precisely it was that was causing it.

Something's gotta be whack.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think it's a rather simple to see but not sure about fixing.

If Eternity is now 14,000 turns and Epic is now only 2000 and Normal 1000 turns respectively, then the formula used Must be Very restrictive at the 14,000 turn and no restrictions at 1000 turns.

It's been 37 years since I really used Differential equations but someone up to snuff with current math should be able to figure it out ( like Koshling or AIAndy, perhaps maybe even ls612).

You just can't put the same restrictions on Normal/Epic and reasonably expect them to play just like Snail/Eon/Eternity. Just won't happen with % Modifiers used across the board.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

I think it's a rather simple to see but not sure about fixing.

If Eternity is now 14,000 turns and Epic is now only 2000 and Normal 1000 turns respectively, then the formula used Must be Very restrictive at the 14,000 turn and no restrictions at 1000 turns.

It's been 37 years since I really used Differential equations but someone up to snuff with current math should be able to figure it out ( like Koshling or AIAndy, perhaps maybe even ls612).

You just can't put the same restrictions on Normal/Epic and reasonably expect them to play just like Snail/Eon/Eternity. Just won't happen with % Modifiers.

JosEPh

I won't be learning differential equations in Calc class until the spring.

 

[Koshling]

I think it's a rather simple to see but not sure about fixing.

If Eternity is now 14,000 turns and Epic is now only 2000 and Normal 1000 turns respectively, then the formula used Must be Very restrictive at the 14,000 turn and no restrictions at 1000 turns.

It's been 37 years since I really used Differential equations but someone up to snuff with current math should be able to figure it out ( like Koshling or AIAndy, perhaps maybe even ls612).

You just can't put the same restrictions on Normal/Epic and reasonably expect them to play just like Snail/Eon/Eternity. Just won't happen with % Modifiers used across the board.

JosEPh

But there are no modifiers applied to gold that relate to game speed. It's just a per turn thing, and a turn is a turn whatever the game speed. That is, with he same set of cities and buildings and civics, the gold output (and consumption) should be the same regardless of game speed.

In a slower game there are more turns over which any gold RATE imbalance can accrue, bu that can only amplify an effect on slower speeds, not invert it. As such I am also bemused as to the cause of this effect.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well at least ppl are starting to see Why I was so Opposed to all the gold reductions.

It may be a combination of factors. But the % modifiers, whether related to "there are no modifiers applied to gold that relate to game speed...", or not vs the simple + or - Gold of basic Civ IV has done stranger things to BtS Mods. This has been a recurring problem since RoM thru AND to now C2C (the effects of % vs + or - ).

But there are no modifiers applied to gold that relate to game speed.

Maybe there should be?

JosEPh

 

[Koshling]

Maybe there should be?

JosEPh

Might be appropriate, but until we diagnose the cause, it's hard to say what the appropriate solution will be.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I understand. And also understand if it's low priority.

JosEPh

 

[Ari Rahikkala]

Well! It turns out that working on civics is kind of fun. Now quite a lot of the ones I've got in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T0aB5ALDGwx0SpWP92TBomAImSqsFJj4r78zPuur2qg/edit would require SDK work to actually implement, so I'm not going to bother (last time I tried I couldn't even set up the compiler right) but hey, it's a (start of) a different view of how the civics could be.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well! It turns out that working on civics is kind of fun. Now quite a lot of the ones I've got in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T0aB5ALDGwx0SpWP92TBomAImSqsFJj4r78zPuur2qg/edit would require SDK work to actually implement, so I'm not going to bother (last time I tried I couldn't even set up the compiler right) but hey, it's a (start of) a different view of how the civics could be.

Interesting suggestions. I do like reduction in the number of effects for each civic.

 

[strategyonly]

Well! It turns out that working on civics is kind of fun. Now quite a lot of the ones I've got in would require SDK work to actually implement, so I'm not going to bother (last time I tried I couldn't even set up the compiler right) but hey, it's a (start of) a different view of how the civics could be.

Interesting suggestions. I do like reduction in the number of effects for each civic.

I have to agree with DH, some very interesting stuff there, and thx for at least putting ideas up like this, "Way to Go."

 

[bill2505]

one thing i found critical. there is not flamability reducing building until very late of the game

 

[Hydromancerx]

one thing i found critical. there is not flamability reducing building until very late of the game

The Town Well reduces Flammability and it comes at Masonry tech which is an Ancient tech.