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C2C - Civics Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by EldrinFal, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    @Faustmouse

    Its hard to judge the Transhuman Era techs since most are by MrAzure. Going down the list ...

    Thought Scanning
    Basically reading ones thoughts. And possibly influencing them which is why mind control is there. But Being Brainwashed and fast learning are not the same thing.

    Simulated Reality
    So an artificial reality that seems real. Getting closer but I don't think into mind downloading yet.

    Mind Uploading Or Whole Brain Emulation
    These seem to be the best candidates. If not too far. They are transferring and/or copying the entire mind from one brain to another. Be it artificial or organic.

    Seeing that there is not really anything that fits between mind Uploading and Simulated Reality we may need to just stick it at Simulated Reality since that's basically "The Matrix" level of technology.

    Or Exocortex Networks might be better in that it augments peoples brains and makes sort of an internet of minds. Note this comes before Simulated Reality but after Thought Scanning.

    What do you think?
     
  2. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    I think Exocortex Networks would be probably a first way to upload things inside your brain. We should move Mind Control a bit back then. Today, you can actually scan thoughts (quite impressively as I think, I saw it on Vsauce).
    So probably the Matrix-rapid-learning would go to Exocortex Networks, Mind Control would suit in well with Simulated Reality and instant learning would be Brain Uploading.
     
  3. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I agree and uploaded to the SVN ...

    - Mind Control civic moved to Simulated Reality tech.
    - Moved Mind Control Center to Simulated Reality tech.
    - Removed Time Travel Education civic.
    - Added Rapid Education and Instant Education civics.
     
  4. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Great! :goodjob:
    What about Time Drafting?
    And the World Language and Telepatic Communication?
     
  5. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    The rest I will tackle later. These I at least knew what stats to give them.

    I also want to explore some of MrAzures civics such ...

    - Cyberdemocracy (Binary Legislation)
    - ? (Gene Jurisprudence)
    - Hivemind (?)
     
  6. voskhod

    voskhod Chieftain

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    I'd like to see a few far transhuman techs added, mostly sci-fi ones that deal with humanity's end-game. Here's a few ideas I managed to come up with.

    Rule civic - Hivemind
    Similar to the Borg from Star Trek, this is a lategame future tech that causes all of humanity to join a collective consciousness and form a single entity known as the Hivemind. The thoughts, dreams, hopes, desires, emotions, memories, personalities, and character of every single person on the planet are merged into a single mass.
    -Effects:
    Dunno about this one. Obviously it should provide a massive science boost as the hivemind is literally the sentient embodiment of all human knowledge. Culture I imagine would be hit very hard as creativity comes to a near standstill. No anger whatsoever, much like the mind-control center allows. Civic upkeep cost reduced to near 0%. Can't think of any nerfs besides culture.

    Welfare Civic - Post-humanism
    Coming after the Homo Superior civic, post-humanism is a society that completely abandons their biological bodies and either become robots, or transfer their consciousness into a worldwide net. The concept of self becomes nebulous. I can imagine this civic splitting off into 2 different civics, actually, that are:

    Post-humanism (robotic)
    People still have their own bodies which they can use to interact with the physical world, the human population becomes like the T-800 terminators.

    Post-humanism (cybernetic)
    People no longer have a sense of bodily self - their consciousnesses are uploaded onto a worldwide information net, as the human population chooses to live in their constructed virtual reality world, and completely forgoing the real world.
    Still can't think what the actual effects would be though.

    Next one is a pretty big one IMO:
    Waste civic - matter recycling
    The population uses extremely advanced matter manipulation technology to rend garbage into its constituent atoms and rearrange those atoms into a usable form. Similar to the replicators from star trek, again. You can literally take dirt and turn it into a steak, or make it into gold. The ever sought after ancient knowledge of alchemy has been achieved, through science!
    Effects:
    Production would be massively increased. +100% or even +200% I think.
    No health penalties from resources and population.

    Education civic - Neural Dataprofiling
    Knowledge is directly uploaded into people's minds, like how Neo "learned" kung-fu in the Matrix. Information can also be "downloaded" from people's minds.
    Huge espionage and scientific bonuses, obviously.

    Agriculture civic - Sequenced agriculture
    Humanity has created its own species of crops that produce the most amount of food, using the least amount of nutrients, as fast as possible using total knowledge of genomes and genetic manipulation. These super-crops are then grown in massive agricultural towers and harvested by droids.
    Effects:
    Worked tiles provide +50% food
    Agriculture towers produce ~40 food (per level) instead of +8

    And, finally, the post-labor civic really needs to be reworked from the ground up.
     
  7. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    This was just added as "Rapid Education".
     
  8. voskhod

    voskhod Chieftain

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    And the others?
     
  9. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Well I already mentioned Hive Mind in the post before yours. The Post-humanism I don't know. matter recycling seems more like a building than a tech. And Sequenced agriculture seems already covered with the buildings we have. Again farming is more about the organization of farming and not the technological level of it.

    Note that we already have Farmscrapers and Farmbots/Farm Mechs/Farm Nanobots as buildings.
     
  10. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Matter Recycling is a better word for what I called "Total Recycling". Everything (literally) is recycled, so you won't have garbage anymore. This would be the latest available Garbage Civic. Before that (as I said) should be something like "Compostable Garbage". Either at Biomaterials or at Bacterial Engineering. This would reduce garbage a lot since most stuff is packed in highly resistant but still easily compostable packages.
     
  11. voskhod

    voskhod Chieftain

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    Another idea, this one for language:

    Telepathic communication -
    People have transcended the need for language altogether, as thoughts are communicated directly between individuals' minds, bypassing the language barrier entirely.
     
  12. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Did you read anything that Faustmouse posted?

     
  13. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    I found an article over education in 2060.

    Spoiler :
    Exponential progress in the fields of communication, information technology and computer science continues to reshape society. Some of the most important advances have occurred in education. Although many countries are being ravaged by global warming, access to learning is now so effortless and inexpensive that – paradoxically – even the poorest and most destitute of places can take advantage of it.

    Schools and classrooms as people from the 20th century would know them have largely disappeared by 2060. Networking has replaced in-person learning for the vast majority of students, who now take part in decentralised, online and virtual classes. Strong AI has supplanted most of the roles that were formerly held by human teachers. These artificial instructors have instant access to vast repositories of data and knowledge, greatly expanding the horizons of learning environments. Students are exposed to a much wider variety of culture and ideas, since classes are no longer limited by geographical proximity. Connectivity allows young people with similar interests and abilities to learn together and be optimally matched in terms of personality types. Universal translators have removed any language barriers such international classrooms would have experienced in the past.

    Full immersion virtual reality allows modern "schools" to exist as purely online institutions, with a seemingly infinite variety of classes and subjects. These can be experienced through self-guiding neural implants – or more commonly, by simply wearing an external device like a headset or visor. Free software and the negligible cost of hardware have brought unprecedented levels of education to Third World countries. The lack of required physical infrastructure and reduced need to pay teachers* has given even the poorest neighbourhoods access to a range of study far beyond anything seen in the past. While schools and colleges still exist in the physical world, these are declining in number and have been heavily influenced by information technology. Instead of paper or textbooks, students make use of portable tablet devices with essentially limitless power and bandwidth, again at negligible cost. As a consequence, global illiteracy has fallen below 1%.**

    As well as technology, the process of education itself has evolved to meet the changing needs of society. With the continuing trend of mechanisation, the bulk of manufacturing and physical labour has been relegated to machines. Even many white collar jobs have disappeared thanks to the emergence of strong AI. As a result, human work is increasingly confined to subjective, abstract and/or creative professions – such as science, art, design, law, etc. This has turned high education into an absolute necessity in many countries. Methods for teaching students have changed in response.

    In the past, most systems of education consisted of a set period of time that people would move through school. The grades they received played a large role in determining what opportunities they would have later in life. Regardless of how well students did in school, and regardless of whether they even understood the material, they would all complete their education at roughly the same time with whatever skill level they had managed to acquire. Now, this method has been reversed.* In the most developed countries, semester-based learning has been replaced with a go-at-your-own-pace style of learning. The proliferation of virtual teachers has made it possible for a person's education to be exactly tailored to their own learning abilities and interests. This avoids the issue of exceptional students being held back, and struggling students being left behind. The overall result is that time spent in school has become variable, while the level of knowledge and skill one gets out of school has been given a floor.

    The physical (and virtual) classroom environment itself has also changed. It is common now to have a single class be taught by more than one teacher, allowing them to play off their individual strengths and give students a broader base of information. Teaching is much more reciprocal, with students learning from teachers, learning from other students, or even imparting their own knowledge back onto the teacher. Also, the classic lecture environment has been replaced by a more hands-on approach. Much more of schooling involves practical application with teachers demonstrating exactly how their material can be used in the real world.

    Technology is bringing further innovations to education. A profound and world-altering paradigm – referred to in earlier decades as the 'Singularity' – appears to be on the cusp of emerging. For increasing numbers of people, direct merger of their brain with cloud-based, non-biological artificial intelligence* has become necessary in order to keep up with the truly staggering amount of new information appearing each day.* These upgrades are having a significant impact on the process of learning. Personal AI can guide a person's educational progression using detailed knowledge of their brain structure and learning abilities. By the end of the century, this method of assisted learning will evolve into a system of downloads, with new skills and facts seamlessly inserted directly into a person's brain. This will ultimately lead to the end of education in the traditional sense, with a new species of transhuman emerging based on automatic, instantaneous accumulation of knowledge and vastly amplified intelligence.



    This is roughly the time were Anti Aging, Invisibility and Nano Fabricators occour (and 10 years after Fusion), also shortly after permanent mars bases.
     
  14. LumenAngel

    LumenAngel King

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    Just an idea : Rename Agriculture Civics Food Civics
    No agriculture -> Unorginazed feeding. Seed camp is no more available. Allow Carrion
    Gathering -> 35% more :food: to grow. Allow seed camp. Req : Gahthering
    Hunting -> Low Upkeep. 30% more :food: to grow. +2 XP for hunters. +25% construction for Hunter's camp. Req Hunting
    Artificial Food -> Food are amde from non-organic things -25% more :food: to grow. +50% :food:, -10% :hammers: in all cities. +4 :food:, -3 :hammers: from Factory improvment, +10% :food, -10% :hammers: from Factory Building. Req : Synthetic Synestesia
    Auto-agriculture -> Animals and plants gros them self and transforme them self into foods -> +20% :food:, +5% :hammers:, -15% more :food: to grow. High Upkeep. Req Artificial life
     
  15. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I read the article you posted Faustmouse... interesting indeed.

    I really like those ideas LumenAngel - nobody is stepping up to take over as our civic's developer at the moment but assuming you mean to add those to those that already exist in the category while renaming the category, I like your proposal.
     
  16. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    I was under the impression that Hydro was "working/in charge" of the Civics. At least it seems he has the last say in it as he changes them when he wants.

    JosEPh
     
  17. ChaoticWanderer

    ChaoticWanderer Warlord

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    you have republic. but i think another type of government is ignored in merchant republic it was an important middle age. genoa, venice, the hansa, florence were all big ones at that time and very powerful.
     
  18. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Those just sound like technologies. I personally think Agriculture was well thought out and am happy with it in its current form. It iis much more like a proper civic than just "advancement civics" like language which could only be done as a civic since buildings don't give relation adjustments.

    Please don't. His suggestions are a no brainier when you progress. At least with the current agriculture civics you have to choose which type you want to run. Aside from Language an to a less extent Education, civics should not always be a linear upgrade choice. Plus techs like gathering, agriculture, etc already have impact upon those areas. No need to have it as a civic.

    At the moment yes. However since I did originally make those civics like Agriculture, Education, Immigration, Garbage and Language, they will always be my babies and I will want to have some say in their adjustment.

    Hmm, interesting idea. I will have to think on that. Do you have ideas to when and what stats such a civic would have?
     
  19. Redwallzyl

    Redwallzyl Warlord

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    I think the early upkeep is to high or something I'm losing a lot of money most from civics and i cant even build any more gold producing buildings.
     
  20. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Well, events can. And you can trigger events at 100% whenever the conditions are met. The thing is, that the Relation bonus from events fade away, but then again, this is only logical. In the beginning you might be amazed that your neighbor can "speak" and not just grunt, but the times goes by and by now for example, if you want to work internationally, you HAVE to speak english.
     

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