Should the Eduction, Garbage, Immigration and Language civics be added to the core? They have been around awhile now. And it would be easier to keep track of them if they were all in one file.
What do you guys think?
I think Education, Garbage, and Immigration are all appropriate in Civics. I've mentioned before I don't care for the Language one because it is a pure linear progression and one I feel represents technological improvements and not Civic choices. There is never a reason NOT to choose the best one when you have it.
In any case, if you still want it in there Hydro for whatever you planned to use it for, I won't remove it. Eventually I will need to add the Flavor properties to those.
Immigration should perhaps do something more than what it currently does. I always feel Open Borders is by far the best one of those due to +2 trade routes, +25% trade route yield, and -15% food needed for growth.
Skilled Workers I feel needs more bonuses. +10% science and hammers doesn't even start to make up for -1 Trade Routes, and then there's still the High Upkeep to consider. Having +Happy and +Health would fit too, and higher science output, like 20%, together with a +10% Gold and we might be talking.
Closed borders and Secure Borders should have some (huge) bonus against Espionage conducted in your cities while Open Borders maybe has a negative value there. Closed to Immigrants doesn't really mean no Foreign trade Routes either. That's an humongous loss if adopting Closed Borders and I feel the +2 Trade Routes and -15 to grow from Open vs. no extra Trade Routes and +20% to grow from Closed is compliment enough. Don't need to remove all Foreign TR too.
Cheers
There is also Agriculture too. But I assume you deem that appropriate as well.
Note sure how else to implement language though. IF you have other ideas on how it should work let me know. Its the only method I could figure out which allows for other civs to have +/- relations to you based on your communication level. The science bonus stuff could be taken out, but then the civs would not do very much or be very appealing.
I understand your point about the language barrier improving relations and agree with it in principle. But you might be able to accomplish the same thing by say, granting an extra bonus to a building, or a new building/national wonder, or even an auto-triggered event that gives the relationship bonus. Or perhaps "Establishing an Embassy" already represents some of that and/or the effects can be enhanced?
Can Parliament be looked at? It's a very weak Civic with a High cost. It gives nothing that justifies it's cost.
In fact I'm really wondering why it's even a Civic choice as Senate is already in there.
What is the reason for having Senate and Parliament?
JosEPh
@EldrinFal
That's one of the reasons I wanted to add them to the core so they could be balanced and tweaked more readily with the other civics.
Well in another mod they made like tons of different languages and those that spoke the same language had better relations. While this makes sense I think its overdoing it a bit of what the different civics I had do.
I also do not think "Establishing an Embassy" is doing exactly what the language civic is doing. However auto-events may be the way to go. But that's its way beyond my capability and probably low on the priority list of those on the team who can do it. So for now I think the civic is at least a good place holder until we can do it better.
Can Parliament be looked at? It's a very weak Civic with a High cost. It gives nothing that justifies it's cost.
In fact I'm really wondering why it's even a Civic choice as Senate is already in there.
What is the reason for having Senate and Parliament?
JosEPh
"Language" could be named "Foreign Relations" instead then perhaps as that would be more in line with what it does? Though then it becomes more like Immigration I suppose...
What it could do, apart from better relations, is grant ability to establish embassy at some point and furthermore increase Foreign Trade Route Yields by some percentages instead of bonus to Science and Culture, or a little of both.
For instance:
Native Language: Establish Embassy and Open Borders possible. Small bonus to Trade Routes. No change in relations against other nations.
Trade Language: Free Trade Agreements possible. Small Bonus to Trade Routes. Tiny increase in relations with other nations.
Interpreters: Vassalage possible (with the right techs). Medium Bonus to Trade Routes and Small additional bonus to Foreign trade Routes. Medium increase in relations with other nations.
Language Education: Large bonus to Trade Routes and additionally Medium bonus to Foreign Trade Routes. Larger increase in relations.
Universal translator. Large bonus to Trade Routes and Foreign Trade Routes. Biggest Relation increase.
Not sure why the additional Culture from language unless it's from being able to save plays, music, dances, poems, books, a.s.o. for posterity. If that's the case then either certain buildings could get a bonus in culture (library, university, a.s.o.) depending on what language civic one has.
Just my pennies worth.
Cheers
Can Parliament be looked at? It's a very weak Civic with a High cost. It gives nothing that justifies it's cost.
As for the 0ther 4 Pros I need to ask how big of an impact does building the Hosue of Parliament provide? As much as the Forbidden Palace? More? Less?
JosEPh![]()
The reason you disagree Cyclone is because you use REV + Fixed Borders, and probably City Limits too. Therefore 2 of it's Pros for you are important. But, if you do Not use these Options it IS a very weak Civic choice. I would only use it if I wanted to increase the difficulty of my play level.
As for the 0ther 4 Pros I need to ask how big of an impact does building the Hosue of Parliament provide? As much as the Forbidden Palace? More? Less?
There are already a 1/2 dozen other civics that allow: Can spend gold to finish production. So that to me isn't that important either.
So now we are down to +25 GP and +25 Gold in Capital. The +25 GP is good so 1 + so far.
+25 Gold in Capital is relatively weak vs even 5% Gold in Empire and this can be found in Better Civics too. I give it a +1/2 pt.
The Cons: any Civic that adds +25 WW is to be avoided if you have to fight over seas. So this is a Big one in my book. The +50% and +75% that Republic, Democracy and Federal had was overboard. But those have been looked at by Eldrin.
So there is some of my "what's Not to like about Parliament" reasons.
JosEPh![]()
always play the latest version before you post problemsJust as my own two cents. I'm playing v18 and never leave tribalism. I also feel skilled workers is glorious. Trade routes are a hazard in the late game.is largely infinite if your remotely compitant. The bonus food is a hazard and will end up with no way to control population growth. I have enough issues with constantly ordering people to shut up about building hidiously terrible casinos and vacation resorts without mentally trying to come up with excuses why they can't have verticle farms after declaring all their specialty farms obsolete.
More Importantly, I like Civics that add negative population growth rates. I just played space race victory on Prince and managed to get several cities above 150 with population growtth negative civics. I think the capital was at 176 and about to grow yet again (yeah vertical farms!) I ended up gunning it for ascention as a population control method. Didn't quite make it there though. (apparently that game alredy took 84 and half hours so I wasn't just waiting out the space race at that point... please ignore the whole building artificial stars things)
All in all as an enternity player I need Rev on or the AI's (particularly the Spiritual ones) will easily and gleefully build beyond 30 cities. As it is the AI's are having no issue with controling Civs wthat have a -70+ to unhappy from having to many cities alone. This is probably unnpopular but I feel REV needs to be taken up a notch or 3. Granted my 50+ automated bombers screwed was screwing up the mechanics of the revolves near me.
Seriously, +17 happy and over 100 unhappy on a city and it made people only a bit grumbly. They were also entering the modern era and I was on singularity stablization. Which is artificially inflated by the 3 fusion generators on research, but not that much.
I need some way that depleats the excess population... their is nothing to whip. The draft is useless with everyone at riflemen. Granted Its got a large component of under developed late eras. I mean space race is going to be moved to inter dimension colonizing... I need to be able to funnel excess population into something so maybe colony ships need to be sent off will unhappy due to crowding population on it.
All in all the idea of removing the agricultural controls of the civic are pure madness at this point. Though I agree that the language civic need work.... I just can't see any sane way to control population growth without an agriculture civic. Or being psychotic.
... I just can't see any sane way to control population growth without an agriculture civic. Or being psychotic.