[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

[Saltcreek]

And this is part of the reason why I'm so disappointed with what the dev team came up with. Because none of the above is true, but it's the impression that's been left by this civ design. Contrast with a lot of the ideas on the O Canada thread for what people perhaps weren't "expecting", but were certainly hoping for.




Only the RCMP get a bonus though, so I think you're good. Plus we can only march 2 hexes south, so that means the attack peters out somewhere around Bute.

Also, we need to give you a 5 turns heads up.

I was expecting a culture/diplo civ but you are correct in that they just made up a bunch of stuff that is not even true. It is like they looked up the the stereotype encyclopedia and picked the first 3 things that appeared under Canada. We do not build farms in Tundra and Mounties are not military units. I can let the hockey rink slide but they could have done something with trading/railroads instead.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

Don't understand all the hate, they're fine. Maybe not the most exciting but certainly not the most boring. I don't see that they're any more clichéd than the other colonial civs and I don't see that there's anything offensive or crazy about them. People are weird!

 

[IPERSIAN]

Any way I can sort this thread by controversial

 

[thecrazyscot]

I get that some people would think that the Lavra would be a limiting factor but it is a strength that Russia can play to and do very well with. Right now, based off what we know, Canada has no strength it can play to (diplo may be something but we shall see). Tundra is underwhelming, UU is late, and the UI is most likely mid/late. I am just not seeing anything that jumps out that is strong or that can be exploited to gain an advantage.

The free tiles on settle is a bit funny and you are right - it could be good or bad. I just feel if there was an actual bonus to improving tundra tiles then the cheaper purchase price would be more beneficial.

I think we may actually agree more than we disagree, but I don't want to put words in your mouth. I think that Russia, with the Lavra, has a focused specialty that Canada cannot compete directly with, or if it tried would be at a distinct disadvantage. I also think that Canada may have a slower start in the early game than Russia, and the snowball effect is real. We will have to see how effective Canada's relatively few early-game bonuses are (more strategic resources might be really powerful, we don't really know how many you'll need; we don't yet know how valuable extra favor is, but I suspect that it's going to be quite useful, etc). However, my ultimate point is that Canada can choose to go other ways more easily than Russia can, because it can ignore an aspect of the game that Russia cannot.

 

[Hammurabbit]

Do you object to the Aztec getting Tlachtli?

Not so much. To me that sounds like an ancient and exotic ritual from a legendary Civilization. Canadian hockey may be brutal at times (we all remember Bob Probert, but it doesn't include human sacrifice as far as i know

I understand that both Ice Hockey and Tlachtli could be considered sports in some sense - I just don't want to see Ice Hockey rinks or Golf Courses playing an important part in my epic alternative world history.

 

[Giskler]

Not so much. To me that sounds like an ancient and exotic ritual from a legendary Civilization. Canadian hockey may be brutal at times (we all remember Bob Probert, but it doesn't include human sacrifice as far as i know

I understand that both Ice Hockey and Tlachtli could be considered sports in some sense - I just don't want to see Ice Hockey rinks or Golf Courses playing an important part in my epic alternative world history.

Golf originated in Scotland in the 15th century so what's your cutoff point?

 

[CivLuvah]

John Jurasek, “My disappointment is immeasurable, and my day is ruined.”

That's his real name? I thought he was simply New Zealander singer Lorde in drag.

 

[Hammurabbit]

Golf originated in Scotland in the 15th century so what's your cutoff point?

I don't have a clear cut off point. I just have opinions. One opinion of mine is that Golf does not play an important role in world history.

 

[Giskler]

I don't have a clear cut off point. I just have opinions. One opinion of mine is that Golf does not play an important role in world history.

Going by that there's quite a lot of things that would have to be cut from the game. Not everything has to have had an important role in history for it to be included.

 

[Disgustipated]

on the bright side, at least Canada's leader is not shirtless.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I was expecting a culture/diplo civ but you are correct in that they just made up a bunch of stuff that is not even true.

What does this mean? What is 'true' about any of the civs? Did the Zulu really build armies before anyone else? Were all Roman cities founded with an insta-monument? Are the Moari really incapable of creating great writers? Do the Cree really claim land by sending traders in that direction? It's a game in which each civ gets four unique things, all FXS can possibly do is give a flavour of that civ in a way that ties them to existing game mechanisms. I'm not saying Canada is a brilliant design but it's fine. Here are some true things about Canada: there is lots of snow; they are good at winter sports, especially ice hockey; they have great national parks; they are generally perceived to be a peaceful & liberal nation. Mounties are possibly the worst bit for me but they're recognisably Canadian at least.

 

[thecrazyscot]

They have an edge on Faith, which can lend itself to pursuit of a Religious Victory.

No argument there.

They have an early edge on Great Writers, Artists, and Musicians, which can lend itself to pursuit of a Cultural Victory.

Which requires a 2nd district slot, which takes population and production. Heavier investment than Canada requires.

They can shoot for Hildegard, Jesuit Education, and the Amundsen-Scott Research Station in pursuit of a Science Victory.

Canada can just build Campuses instead and get all those sweet GS points.

Or they can combine the Grand Master's Chapel and Cossacks in pursuit of a Domination Victory.

I suspect Canada is actually going to be sneakily good at Domination. Extra strategic resources = more units. Extra favor = bribe AIs to do your dirty work for you + pass resolutions which will directly impair your enemies. Extra amenities = able to wage war for longer.

 

[AriochIV]

O God, I just realized I'm going to have to listen to "O Canada" over and over again. Bloody @#&%*#!ing hell. As if "Waltzing Matilda" wasn't bad enough.

The game creation screen seriously needs a "civ exclusion" feature.

 

[thecrazyscot]

I don't know that you can really call a lack 'flexibility'. Russia loses the value of its uniques if it doesn't use them, but it has good bonuses if it does. Canada just doesn't do much of anything - its food/farm bonus amounts to running to catch up with everyone who doesn't start in tundra, and their UI is so late that it's not clear that the culture boost it provides is nearly as good as it looks. Then, if they aren't going for a culture victory, their UU has little value as all of its bonuses are tied to national parks.

National Parks, while primarily geared towards a cultural victory, do have other benefits. Amenities are really good, and their UU does get a strength bonus near them, so it can be used defensively as well (I won't say offensively because I've never seen an AI build a national park).

 

[Zaarin]

Well...they got the War Cart right? Sumerians did use war carts, and did make Ziggurats. So those worked. But the abilities...yeah. Yeah, we know.

But the ziggurats look like step pyramids.

Gold is far more useful than Faith.

Anything that can be purchased by both is cheaper in Faith, so there's that...

Songs about bird dismemberment is probably not what Firaxis wants to go for.

In a game where killing horsemen is fine but killing horses is not...probably not.

I understand that both Ice Hockey and Tlachtli could be considered sports in some sense

Considering that the Mesoamerican ball game was a religious rite and in some cases also a sort of trial by champion, I would say that the Tlachtli is a little different than the Hockey Rink or Golf Course. (Personally I think they should have made the Hockey Rink a replacement for the Stadium--would have made more sense.) Not that the Aztec need a boost, but I'd love to see the Tlachtli generate a tiny trickle of diplomatic favor...

The game creation screen seriously needs a "civ exclusion" feature.

This is way overdue.

 

[pgm123]

Not so much. To me that sounds like an ancient and exotic ritual from a legendary Civilization. Canadian hockey may be brutal at times (we all remember Bob Probert, but it doesn't include human sacrifice as far as i know

I understand that both Ice Hockey and Tlachtli could be considered sports in some sense - I just don't want to see Ice Hockey rinks or Golf Courses playing an important part in my epic alternative world history.

Perhaps in 500 years ice hockey will be considered an ancient and exotic ritual from a legendary civilization.

Let me try something else. What about a hippodrome or some other race track for a Byzantine civilization?

 

[Hammurabbit]

Going by that there's quite a lot of things that would have to be cut from the game. Not everything has to have had an important role in history for it to be included.

I agree with that. And generally I would prefer what's considered important or prominent in world history is reflected, rather than what's not considered important. But obviously there is no absolute truth here, it's all opinions.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Not so much. To me that sounds like an ancient and exotic ritual from a legendary Civilization. Canadian hockey may be brutal at times (we all remember Bob Probert, but it doesn't include human sacrifice as far as i know

I understand that both Ice Hockey and Tlachtli could be considered sports in some sense - I just don't want to see Ice Hockey rinks or Golf Courses playing an important part in my epic alternative world history.

Golf originated in Scotland in the 15th century so what's your cutoff point?

Both modern golf and the game tlatchli started in the 1400s while earlier forms of golf go back further. Today golf is played around the world. I would say golf has survived and had a bigger impact on world history.
I agree I was put off with the Golf course but I've grown to like it. At least the building in the middle resembles Scottish architecture.

 

[Tiger Genocide]

Russia inflexible? LOOL!

Russia is strong for Religion, Culture, and Domination victories. Science too. Russia is a Tier 2 civ and some people rate them T1. They are not only a good civ to play but they are a great one. They literally hoard great writers and artists. Their cossacks can be a big problem in multiplayer.

Canada is none of these things. If they had an early national park, then we would be having a much different conversation. Russia will have religious and regular art tourism accumulated before Canada truly gets started.

With no early game bonuses of any kind, Canada is a net negative civ like Lily said. Most games it is clear who is winning by turn 100-150 depending on the game speed. Unless Firaxis changes the culture victory mechanic to slow the game down, Canada is too slow!

Don't even get me started on the slow food growth. Kongo and India are as strong as they are because they can grow so fast and gain/utilize faith. Canada cannot use favor as a currency to grow faster or do something else can they? No! Getting an extra luxury doesn't cut it.

Maori is strong because they get extra food and production at the very beginning to make up for the ocean start. Why could they not give Canada something to boost food and production to make up for the slow start? Like a fur trapper giving +food and some production or something.

 

[UWHabs]

But the ziggurats look like step pyramids.


Anything that can be purchased by both is cheaper in Faith, so there's that...


In a game where killing horsemen is fine but killing horses is not...probably not.


Considering that the Mesoamerican ball game was a religious rite and in some cases also a sort of trial by champion, I would say that the Tlachtli is a little different than the Hockey Rink or Golf Course. (Personally I think they should have made the Hockey Rink a replacement for the Stadium--would have made more sense.) Not that the Aztec need a boost, but I'd love to see the Tlachtli generate a tiny trickle of diplomatic favor...


This is way overdue.

Are you saying that hockey isn't a religious rite in Canada? Pure blasphemy there. Go confess to our lord and saviour, Maurice Richard.