[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

[Saltcreek]

This is not a fair comparison. Russia is built for Religion and its intersection with Culture. Canada is rather about Diplomacy, an aspect of the game which is still relatively ambiguous.

Directly from the Youtube video:

"Canada is built for a strong culture victory and it can make a good run at a diplomatic one as well".

My comparison to Russia is fair. Russia receives faith bonuses from tundra at a much earlier stage in the game. The value over time is exponentially better than ice rink culture bonus which will be later. To make ice rinks good you need a lot of end game civics which do not out weight the Lavra value over time.

Another point. Canada basically gets +1 food from tundra and Russia gets +1 faith/production. I know what yield I would take.

I am really disappointed with how they designed Canada.

 

[Kataklysm]

I was expecting something like this for my home Civ! Really happy to finally see it in the game. Although it was somehow predictable, I am a bit underwhelmed about the tundra farming thing. I mean - have they only checked where tundra really begins, for a start? Clever the farmer who will get nice juicy corn or potatoes at this latitude (the ground is permafrosted). Almost nobody lives up there. But I get the idea, Canada had to had a tundra starting bias.

https://www.kidzone.ws/habitats/arctic-tundra.htm

As for the hockey rink and mounties, well... it was either that, or sugar shacks, or coureur des bois fur traders.

I'd like to add also that as one of the most contemporary leaders and civs in the game, it's easy to say that Canada's abilities are cliché and predictacle. I'd be curious to talk to a roman, or ancient greek, or ancien egyptian or sumerian dude and hear what he'd say about how 'cliché' his civ is reprensented in the game. Come on.

 

[Zaarin]

I didn't know Hockey was invented in Canada. I knew it was popular up there but I thought it was an older game.

It is--in the form of field hockey. Canada invented ice hockey.

 

[Hammurabbit]

Have to say I'm not very excited by this civ
- Ice Hockey rink: like the golf course, I think this breaks immersion. Grand historical strategy games should not include Ice Hockey and Golf, at least that's my opinion. The pure game mechanics of the Ice Hockey Rink is ok I guess, or even quite interesting, so nothing against the mechanics.
- No surprise wars. I just think it's weird that this ability affect basic choices of other civs (the choice to declare war). If there was a mechanics already in place that limits your possibility to declare wars (as I believe there was in Civ1, you could not declare war as democracy, huh?) I would find it more reasonable. I would almost find it better if the ability was that every war against Canada was considered a surprise war.
- Mountie - To my knowledge not a military unit. Having an army of mounties invading a neighbour just feels weird.

I do like the abilities for Canada to make more out of Tundra tiles, though.

Let's see how Ed Beech defends Canada in the next live stream

 

[Zaarin]

sumerian dude and hear what he'd say about how 'cliché' his civ is reprensented in the game.

Considering that nothing about th Sumerian civilization in game is derived from anything to do with Sumer, they'd be pretty baffled; Sumeria is 100% based on The Epic of Gilgamesh, a Babylonian epic poem (with Sumerian roots but thoroughly nativized).

 

[King William I]

It is--in the form of field hockey. Canada invented ice hockey.

Huh, I always thought I've hockey came first

 

[j51]

Is it bad that I wanted to march over to the food truck that sold the little boy his poutine and demand an explanation for why they're serving gravy that's not hot enough to melt the cheese curds?

Yes, you don't want the curds to completely melt. They need to preserve their squeakiness.

 

[Ziad]

Another point. Canada basically gets +1 food from tundra and Russia gets +1 faith/production. I know what yield I would take.

But this comment alone shows how you are not making a fair comparison.

It's not +1 food. It's an improvement on a tile that would be relatively unappealing (no features tundra), with yields that scale, and one that produces housing.

And Russia is all about quick expansion out of tundra with a focus on early-game religion and culture, while Canada is about a quick expansion into tundra with a focus on diplomacy and late-game tourism.

You can't just make blanket statements. They favor different gameplay paradigms.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Have to say I'm not very excited by this civ
- Ice Hockey rink: like the golf course, I think this breaks immersion. Grand historical strategy games should not include Ice Hockey and Golf, at least that's my opinion. The pure game mechanics of the Ice Hockey Rink is ok I guess, or even quite interesting, so nothing against the mechanics.
-

Eh. Previous games had Coffee House and Shopping Mall. Aztec has ball court, which nobody has blinked an eye about.

I have to say that while I'm not in love with the overall package of traits, I think people are using a different set of standards against Canada specifically here.

 

[agonistes]

Russia is better in the tundra than Canada. Lavra, religion, feed the world and you are sorted. A +2 tundra farm is not going to grow your city at a fast rate, it will be quite slow. Canadian cities will be bad when compared to other civ cities so I guess are right there - no one will want their land.

National parks and ice rinks are fairly late game so the value you get from them will probably be low. I may be wrong on this but late game bonuses only work if you have a way to get there quicker and Canada does not have any early game bonuses. I am not sure how you are going to win a culture victory when Russia/Greece can do this earlier and much easier.

Agree about Russia. I'm thinking about size 14 is the typical lower limit for tundra cities, assuming no coast, and that isn't bad. Good production. And a true all-tundra city is fairly rare. Usually you will have access to non-tundra terrain.

I think this really depends on when the ice rink will be available to build. If it is late game (which many are assuming) then a lot of the Canadian civ goes unused because it will simply be too slow.



That is a lot of investment for those farm tiles and while you are doing that Russia has religion, culture, great writers and cossacks running around. Basically Canada is a +2 tundra farm civ until the late game and by then it may not even matter (at least in multiplayer).

I like Canada, but Russia does everything better. By the time parks come around, you are swimming in faith.

 

[Stryfe2000Turbo]

As a Canadian who started the day being told the lump taken out of my cat is cancer, seeing this is the only thing that's made me smile so far today.

 

[j51]

As a Canadian who started the day being told the lump taken out of my cat is cancer, seeing this is the only thing that's made me smile so far today.

You have my best wishes!

 

[King William I]

But you need faith as Canada

 

[UWHabs]

But this comment alone shows how you are not making a fair comparison.

It's not +1 food. It's an improvement on a tile that would be relatively unappealing (no features tundra), with yields that scale, and one that produces housing.

And Russia is all about quick expansion out of tundra with a focus on early-game religion and culture, while Canada is about a quick expansion into tundra with a focus on diplomacy and late-game culture.

Russia's problem in the tundra is that the bonuses are great, if they can feed people. Especially for the AI - most of the time I barely see Russian cities get past size 4 or so because they simply can't get the food necessary to grow.

With tundra farms, they're really weak early. I mean, pre-feudalism, there's no point to even placing one, since at best the yields only get to what a regular grass tile does. But later in the game, once you start making those triangles and diamonds, they become usable tiles.

I do wish they had a slight extra bonus to tundra as a civ, because the biggest flaw will be a lack of production. And without any real boost to gold either, that doesn't help. Like, even if they just gave an extra minor boost to some districts for adjacent tundra as part of the ability, something to get me a few extra production or gold, rather than just cheap purchasing of tiles (although that may be an underrated ability, if you can purchase all the tundra tiles and let your culture grow to the non-tundra ones).

 

[CivLuvah]

It’s about time that our 51st state got its own Civ!

I thought that's Puerto Rico.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

But you need faith as Canada

For what?

 

[Saltcreek]

But this comment alone shows how you are not making a fair comparison.

It's not +1 food. It's an improvement on a tile that would be relatively unappealing (no features tundra), with yields that scale, and one that produces housing.

And Russia is all about quick expansion out of tundra with a focus on early-game religion and culture, while Canada is about a quick expansion into tundra with a focus on diplomacy and late-game tourism.

You can't just make blanket statements. They favor different gameplay paradigms.

Why would you waste a builder charge on a tundra tile when you can improve a grassland/plains tile which is way better? Building on tundra is still bad even with the farm that Canada gets. At least Russia can use that faith much earlier in the game and indirectly grow/expand because of it.

 

[Hawke9]

Has anyone noticed the firaxis icon in the hockey rinks yet?

 

[Guandao]

Let's see how Ed Beech defends Canada in the next live stream

Maybe it'll be Sid Meier defending Canada's inclusion instead?

 

[BenitoChavez]

Canada looks interesting if not super strong. Faith-free national parks is really good, ice rink is good, farms on tundra is interesting but not super strong, no surprise wars is interesting but a mixed bag. I hope they showcase the diplomacy victory and world congress soon. I'd have to see that before I know how good diplomacy points are. As for the complaints about stereotypes, boiling each civ down to a handful of traits is basically the definition of a stereotype. Plus this is a game first and foremost with a historical theme. Something that readily identifies the civ even if it is cliché seems appropriate.

I assume this means the Toronto city state is gone and Toronto is now a Canadian city. Do we know yet what the replacement city state is?