Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
Zum geburtstag viel gluck!
Incidentally, I actually look a lot like Reza Pahlavi.
Incidentally, I actually look a lot like Reza Pahlavi.
Capto Iugulum Background Thread
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
- Start date
Спасибо. Они понятия не имеют, какие ужасы ждут.
I think that's right, it's been a while.
I think that's right, it's been a while.
Yeah, it's quite right. Also, wow.
qoou
Emperor
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Moralism is far from being a majority in the Colombian Congress. It is the junior partner in a coalition between it, and the more established Party of Tradition.
The Moralist president, Arcadio Rodriguez, was a compromise candidate, who was sure to win with the Party of Tradition's backing (due to prior respect / name recognition), in line with the Moralist Party's ideals, and more than close enough to the center-right for the Party of Tradition to accept.
And I just realized I forgot to get the ball rolling on Diet Prohibition-Lite in my orders this turn. Ah well.
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
I'm going to pretend Occitanian humanism was included in this list!
Humanism is both a counter-cultural opposition to Moralism and dictatorship in general, as well as a moral-philosophical movement to base morality and moral decisions in the earthly realm, among philosophers and equally valued debaters in the public forum, not among religious or political elites, who's interests invariably deviate from what is good for society and the individual.
The band of the political spectrum which may adhere to Humanism is fairly exclusively the zone of liberals and social proletarists, as Humanism supports, though vaguely as of 1933, democracy, self-determination, and strict secularism, while fighting racism, sexism, and any other needless form of prejudice against individual freedom. So in many ways it's an updated liberalism, with significantly more emphasis on secularism.
Humanism also extends to literature, as some humanists, such as Aleix Oros, have written in what is known as an "anti-romantic" style, which much in theme with Humanism, tries to fly in the face of taboos and prejudice.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
Back in Florida, social proletarians are those who wish to fool people into destroying their own society. They have grudging respect for Vinlander character for resisting the "corruption" of proletarian ism while that party was in power. They have little respect for Jacksonians, which quickly turned into no respect.
The Progressives are ultra liberals or mild socialists depending on how you look at their programs to build powerful, armed, and entrenched Unions. Their reputation has been the subject of much attempted tarnishing.
The main problem in Johnston's era is the polarization of politics, leading to two extremist and armed camps. Whatever you say about him, he both moderated the political atmosphere and disarmed
Both the proletarians and the militant capitalists and pulled The rug from under future militarists.
From my iPhone. Sorry.
The Progressives are ultra liberals or mild socialists depending on how you look at their programs to build powerful, armed, and entrenched Unions. Their reputation has been the subject of much attempted tarnishing.
The main problem in Johnston's era is the polarization of politics, leading to two extremist and armed camps. Whatever you say about him, he both moderated the political atmosphere and disarmed
Both the proletarians and the militant capitalists and pulled The rug from under future militarists.
From my iPhone. Sorry.
Jehoshua
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Your assessment is rather partial, so Im going to go about noting some mild corrections lest there be confusion as to what it actually entails.
Anyways it wasn't included because it has not ever been implemented as a form of government. This being because it has little support outside of a closed circle of degenerate literati within the chattering classes of Occitania and is an exercise in sentimental irrationality that runs counter to the principles of civilisation and the social contract.
On the contrary, the religious and at least some of the political elite invariably look to what is good for society and the individual. Your assertion is utterly reductionistic and overly simplistic. Occitanian humanism however, if we address its interests, is simply glorified hedonism and radical individualism, which is by its very nature inherently against the best interests of society precisely because it denies any claim the community might have on an individuals action and rejects the very notion of society altogether. This individualism, incidentally as I noted a while back on the main thread, inevitably if implemented would lead to tyranny since the domination of an all-encompassing state is necessary to protect the "self-determination aka radical individualism" proclaimed by Occitanian humanism due to said "self-determination" running counter to the natural social relationships that define human life and is as such philosophically and ideologically, inherently against the best interests of society
Ergo its specifically anti-Christian atheism formulated into an ideology that consciously promotes doctrines diametrically opposed to the faith. This is a consequence of its political narrative of opposition to Christian doctrines which you yourself noted
and undermine the moral norms of society insodoing. Since really what it is doing is seeking to overturn the prohibitions on certain immoral acts in order to promote its radically individualistic conception of life and any boundaries to personal pleasure.
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
It was a partial and also terse summation because I didn't expect to have to debate about it. Was your response half-IC or what Jehoshua? because it was pretty thickly coated in Papist propaganda.
Jehoshua
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Since it was primarily a criticism of certain key points, I thought it appropriate to add a little flair to emphasise the etic view, and the implications of Occitanian humanism (which exist independently of what its advocates may say).
If you want the terse assessment of what I said about Occitanian humanism though, I would say (going through my points) that
1) it only has limited supported amongst a certain clique of ideologues, and is not thus far a popular movement in the manner of moralism or proletarism
2) Its ideologically if implemented likely would work against the interest of society as a collective because it exalts individual desire over a collective social contract
3) tyranny would likely result because "self-determination", being counter-intuitive to the natural ordering of the social world, would require a strong authority to defend and impose.
4) Its specifically defined in anti-Christian terms, and is inherently atheistic
5) it actively opposes the social norms of society and seeks their replacement with its conception of self-determination, which is pretty much from what I gather little more than hedonism writ large.
If you want the terse assessment of what I said about Occitanian humanism though, I would say (going through my points) that
1) it only has limited supported amongst a certain clique of ideologues, and is not thus far a popular movement in the manner of moralism or proletarism
2) Its ideologically if implemented likely would work against the interest of society as a collective because it exalts individual desire over a collective social contract
3) tyranny would likely result because "self-determination", being counter-intuitive to the natural ordering of the social world, would require a strong authority to defend and impose.
4) Its specifically defined in anti-Christian terms, and is inherently atheistic
5) it actively opposes the social norms of society and seeks their replacement with its conception of self-determination, which is pretty much from what I gather little more than hedonism writ large.
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
Bring on the criticism, it only fuels my desire to make a Humanist Party, and start creating a solid ideology. Also, secularism is not anti-christian.
Jehoshua
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I never said secularism in general is anti-Christian, but from what you have said (a counter-ideology to moralism which centres on the influence of Christianity in life, inherently is likely to be opposed to the same) and what Occitanian humanists have proposed, its form of radical secularism IS absolutely specifically anti-Christian, and ideologically defined in explicit opposition to the influence of Christianity.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Jeho, why the Pope does not like Burgundy? It is the only French State with Catholic education.
Jehoshua
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The Pope dislikes the current government of Burgundy, not the nation at large.
As to the dislike of said government, the Pope dislikes it precisely because of its current belligerent militarism and aggressive public rhetoric, which are all counter-intuitive to the peace and serenity of Europe which the Holy See would very much like to see preserved. Likewise the messages flowing from Paris (such as its self-implementation of Empire, and regular dismissals of the Church's advice against a belligerent militarist foreign policy and so forth) indicate to the Holy See that the government of Burgundy does not respect the Catholic Church and looks down upon it in a condescending way with these things souring its opinion of the Hollande regime.
Now sure Il Papa liked the gesture of a Catholic education system and approves of the maintanence of that policy. But when all other indicators are poor and when the government of Burgundy's commitment to Catholicity remains shallow and superficial at best, and in many areas quite blatantly nonexistent, that gesture comes to very much look like an effort to make the Church keep quiet regarding the governments more objectionable policies. This is a conclusion strengthened by the fact that the education reforms themselves were only implemented after the vehement opposition of the Church to the self-imperialisation and its excommunication of the previous Emperor (which was later lifted)...
If Burgundy wants relations to improve, it has to actually commit to Catholic values. Presumably such a shift would include ditching the meaningless militarism, establishing (presumably via a concordat) a right relationship between Church and state, opposing in law the grossest political errors (Occitanian Humanism and Traditional Proletarism being the worst and second worst respectively in the eyes of the faith) and generally maintaining the Christian moral order in law established.
christos200
Never tell me the odds
Burgundy is not aggressive. It just defends itself from foreign espionage.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
And yet the Pope likes Brazil?
christos200
Never tell me the odds
The Pope is a hypocrat.
Jehoshua
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The Holy See has its concerns regarding Brazil, but it has shown a more comprehensive and constant commitment to Catholicity than Burgundy which results in a more generous foreign policy assessment sheet for them, and in addition to that Brazils public rhetoric (and military actions) have thus far been aimed at the traditionalist proletarist states, and support of the same (as compared to border incidents with Dauphine, and vague indications of militant French nationalism...) which rate quite low on the papal opinion charts and are seen as antagonistic to Christianity. Il Papa also would note that current action is aimed at the liberation of the oppressed people of Jamaica, which is something qualitatively different to war for territorial aggrandisement. More temporally also, the Holy See fears that a Burgundian war of aggression would ignite another great war, which is something far higher on the papal agenda than the latest minor war in the Caribbean over Jamaica.
EDIT: Oh, and I would like to think the pope is a theocrat, not a hypocrat, and most definitely not a hypocrite. All I try to do in playing the pope is apply Catholic social teaching (be it just war theory in the case of Jamaica, or its views on the role of society, government and so forth) to my actions within a relatively complex multi-contextual framework in a way which best serves the interests of the Faith both immediately and in the long term.
EDIT: Oh, and I would like to think the pope is a theocrat, not a hypocrat, and most definitely not a hypocrite. All I try to do in playing the pope is apply Catholic social teaching (be it just war theory in the case of Jamaica, or its views on the role of society, government and so forth) to my actions within a relatively complex multi-contextual framework in a way which best serves the interests of the Faith both immediately and in the long term.
