Capto Iugulum Background Thread

[Luckymoose]

Anybody know how to a post picture

 

[Grandkhan]

Did somebody say flagchat?!

Anything in a spoiler is a suggestion for the country named in bold above the paragraph above the spoiler.

Czech Kingdom
Below is the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Bohemia on a red background. I can see a monarchy harkening back to the old days of the Czech Bohemian kingdom, and there's no need to appease minorities here.

Spoiler :

Euskadi
I have three alternatives for the flag of Euskadi. Basque nationalism is a relatively modern invention (the 1890s) OTL so its hard to find ancestral flags of the Basque people that aren't just the flag of Navarre (which you can't use because thats pretty explicitly a monarchist symbol and generally Carlist overall.) So here are a few attempts at an alternative. The first is the traditional (as of 1891) flag of the Basque region.

Spoiler :

Below is one of the variant flags designed by the same guy who did the above flag, which is hilarious because it craps all over rule of tincture and looks awful.

Spoiler :

Finally, we have the asserted flag of all Basque peoples (in both France and Spain), which I can't find much about. But it has an eagle on it.

Spoiler :

Galicia
Below is the 1845 Naval flag of La Coruña, from which the modern flag of Galicia comes from (they removed one arm of the cross.) Galicia does have a flag of its own, but it was changed in 1891 due to the fact it was confused with the Russian Naval Jack and then changed again to add a coat of arms. This would not occur in this TL (since the Russian flag is noticeably different and has a bear) so the flag would probably be maintained without alternation.

Spoiler :

Botswana
Botswana is the term for the territory of the Tswana people, who historically prior to British colonisation did not have a flag. However, during apartheid South Africa did establish a Homeland for the Tswana people, which did have a flag. Below is the flag of the Bophuthatswana Homeland.

Spoiler :

Below is the flag of the Bophuthatswana Internal Intelligence Service, which I added because its hilarious and has a skunk on it. And who doesn't love skunks?

Spoiler :

Hashemite Sultanate
Below is the historical flag of Hashemite Hedjaz, which not only occupied the same area as the Hashemite Sultanate but was ruled by the same people. The following design appears on all flags of Hashemite-ruled states, with minor differences (such as the addition of stars on the Jordanian and Iraqi flags, and a crown onto the Kingdom of Syria), implying that it was a royal Hashemite standard of some kind.

Spoiler :

Mali

The traditional Pan-African coloured flag (red yellow green) in use by much of north and western Africa is a modern invention, disqualifying Mali's current flag or its variants. The Kanaga, the human-like symbol that was on the flag of Mali in the early sixties is also a modern invention, I believe. Below is a possible flag of Mali in this TL, that being the banner used by the Mali Empire in the middle ages.

Spoiler :

 

[ChiefDesigner]

I'm simply making what I think is a commonsensical point

Here's the thing -- where you say "common-sense point", I see unexamined assumptions and biases that color your reasoning. When your common sense is disputed by the evidence, as in this case it is, you must go with the evidence. Historical claims are a very dicey thing to take on faith.

 

[JohannaK]

Adjuuramark

The traditional flag of the Adjuuraan Sultanate, from the 14th to the 17th Centuries was adopted by King Daniel in a rectangular format rather than the original triangular shape.

Spoiler :

Probably the new government would add some king of symbol to tie it to their British origin, dunno.

 

[christos200]

Chokwe Flag:

Spoiler :

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Grandkhan, the animal on the second Botswana flag you propose is a honey badger, not a skunk.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

You would be interested to know that in the CI timeline, the Manchu region was not Sinicized in the same way it was OTL. The period of massive growth in Manchuria (1850-1900) never occurred under Chinese rule, but rather was under Japanese. The Ascendant Kingdom of Holy China brutalized the both Manchu and Han peoples (anywhere from 10%-25%) living in the area while defeating the Qing puppet and fighting against the Seven Nation Coalition, and the resulting Japanese conquest resulted in the expulsion of remaining Han farmers over the next 50 years (~1 million) who had been imported over the years by the Qing dynasty. In the meantime, the region has served as an area of colonization by Japan, and the area is basically Japanese, with a mix of Manchus and Koreans. Though Japan has control of a good chunk of China, there hasn't been much Han diffusion to other regions. I'd hesitate to guess, but I'd like to say the area has a population around 20 or 30 million due to industrialization and Japanese policies.

Well, here's the thing -- as much as that might be official policy, I imagine that there will be substanatial internal migration from Japan's Chinese possessions, much of it semilegal. People are going to move where the jobs are, and I imagine that there will be tremendous demand for cheap Chinese labor in Manchuria.

 

[Quisani]

Well, here's the thing -- as much as that might be official policy, I imagine that there will be substanatial internal migration from Japan's Chinese possessions, much of it semilegal. People are going to move where the jobs are, and I imagine that there will be tremendous demand for cheap Chinese labor in Manchuria.

Good point. I won't deny that, but I'm inclined to think that most of that will have occurred after the Great War, when borderlines expanded and restrictions on movement made less sense. Prior to that, Industrialization of Manchuria would also be used to attract Japanese settlers, and Koreans seeking opportunities and Japan's border garrison would've had the dual benefits of keeping an eye on the FBC and attempting to reduce some or most of that migration.

After the Great War, I would like to imagine that some of that those efforts would be lessened due to efforts to industrialize the coastal regions of Japanese China, since that would bring opportunities directly to those regions. Additionally, I imagine that some crackdown on movement occurred during the Red Army Rebellions (1930-now), where Han and Korean populations in the region were under scrutiny for signs of rebellion and subversive actions against the state. Movement would probably have been most free during the Pacific War, when attention was farthest away from China, and that increasing restrictions we enacted in response to the increasing unrest. Also, in an attempt to head further contention off at the pass, these restrictions would have only really been in place around transportation hubs, and perhaps major industrial cities, with local authorities turning a blind eye to such activities.

So, to sum, yes, internal migration would have occurred, and while I'm inclined to believe it wasn't significant, there is definitely the occurrence of that on illegal, semilegal and legal levels, particularly between the ~1910-1930. At the same time, the question of how much migration of the Han people is unclear, since there should sufficient numbers to flood every non-Han territory in Japan. I think EQ has mentioned in the past that the population levels in China are lower than in our timeline, though I've never asked if that was due to war and those pandemics back earlier in the century and due to the Ascendant war, or what those levels might be now. Not that 410,000,000 vs 350,000,000 vs 250,000,000 makes much qualitative difference in comparison to surrounding ethnic groups populations. At the moment, I'm inclined to think that there have been mitigating effects so far, but given enough time, all of Japan could be Han, and the Han wouldn't notice.

 

[Nuka-sama]

Flag of the new BFRA, open to design critiques

 

[JohannaK]

Not enough white, not enough red. Definitely too much yellow.

 

[Nuka-sama]

I only have MS Paint so I myself cannot do this, but I'd be open to having the yellow changed with Red perhaps?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

It's definitely more distinctive than the old Jacksonian Flag, which was a single white star on a blue field, but the white stars on a yellow field break a pretty major vexillological rule about tinctures. Those colours aren't supposed to be on top of each other- it blurs together and looks kind of bad.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

@<nuke>: Just to give you a heads up, I vetoed your nation name. I'd say I'm sorry, but I'm not.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

With that said, I'll take a shot at recolouring it, <nuke>.

 

[Luckymoose]

@<nuke>: Just to give you a heads up, I vetoed your nation name. I'd say I'm sorry, but I'm not.

Awesome. I was planning to invade him just to stop his weird California fetish.

 

[spryllino]

As well as the or and argent rule, the yellow background seems a bit symbolically lacking (why yellow in terms of Jacksonia's history when yellow flags are so unconventional?) and the colour of the bear is also just not a heraldic colour. The bear is also positioned too high up to look right; it needs to be exactly in the centre of the area below the stars.

 

[Shadowbound]

I worry that the message is too subtle, and considered making the text "Kill All The Whites".

 

[Nuka-sama]

@<nuke>: Just to give you a heads up, I vetoed your nation name. I'd say I'm sorry, but I'm not.

Can I just rename it California? :<

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

No, because it's never been called California. In the update I suggested the following: Free Republic of America, Pacific States of America, and I'm sure others may have suggestions too. The gist of my argument against your name is that a flag is supposed to be developed based on the nation. The nation isn't supposed to be developed based on a flag.

 

[Luckymoose]

Jacksonia being the best possible name for the nation.