JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
*flips table*
Capto Iugulum Background Thread
- Thread starter EQandcivfanatic
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Terrance888
Discord Reigns
If they wanted the north of Spain, shudda gone with Visigoths.
<3
<3
Grandkhan - not all the states are republics, though, and neither is Normandy or Poitou. How about "Confederation of Western Continental States" or even "Confederation of Independent States"? I really don't see the point in having an indicator of region in the name at all, though; it's all very well with the kinds of nationalistic state we have in the real world, but part of the point of the Confederation is that it isn't one of them anyway.
Grandkhan
Telvanni Master Wizard
Hmm, thats a valid point. But they're very clearly not independent, and you don't want to exclude other non-continental countries. Furthermore, some of them might not even be states - thats why I support the following name:
the Confederation of Places Pledging Limited Degrees of Loyalty to a Central Government That Just So Happens to be Orleans, but in No Way Limits Inclusion to Any Particular Location Worldwide.
I think thats perfect, don't you?
the Confederation of Places Pledging Limited Degrees of Loyalty to a Central Government That Just So Happens to be Orleans, but in No Way Limits Inclusion to Any Particular Location Worldwide.
I think thats perfect, don't you?
JohannaK
Heroically Clueless
Why limit to Continental? Confederation of States should do just fine.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Why is West Francia bad? That name has its origins in or around freaking Charlemagne who I think predates the POD by a significant margin. West Francia is pretty good by me.
Shadowbound
Incorrugible
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2007
- Messages
- 4,079
United States of Europe
Also, West Francia 1) implies the existence of an East Francia and 2) Morphed into France anyway after a few centuries. Now that it's a thousand years later, there's absolutely no reason to call something West Francia seeing as the West part is no longer true, and the Francia part is basically just France. Francia is as ethnic as France, seeing as the former means Land of the Franks.
Also, West Francia 1) implies the existence of an East Francia and 2) Morphed into France anyway after a few centuries. Now that it's a thousand years later, there's absolutely no reason to call something West Francia seeing as the West part is no longer true, and the Francia part is basically just France. Francia is as ethnic as France, seeing as the former means Land of the Franks.
Crezth
i knew you were a real man of the left
Then call it the Confederation of France.
And like that, boom, the NES has a France.
And like that, boom, the NES has a France.
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
EQ can (and should, for my sake as well) elaborate on the timeline and the use of the term "West Francia" as an administrative region of the Holy Roman Empire, because when discussing the name, a major point in its favour was that it was a term used to refer to the region for quite a while, and so is not going back a thousand years (whereas "Frankish" would be). Further, as an administrative region, though technically refering to "the land of the Franks", that use of the term should have thoroughly been disregarded by this point, and "West Francia" would therefore be purely geographical - which is exactly the characteristic EQ and I were looking for, so that it had little to no reference to a real people, but still referred generally to where the states that are members of this Confederation are.
This all said, I was/am entirely open to a non-geographic name, but I genuinely couldn't invent one at the time. I like spry's suggestion of Confederation of Continental States. I definitely do not wish to use Franco-Burgundy, partially because it implies claims to German Burgundy, but mostly because I want the new Confederation to be thoroughly distinct from the old one.
This all said, I was/am entirely open to a non-geographic name, but I genuinely couldn't invent one at the time. I like spry's suggestion of Confederation of Continental States. I definitely do not wish to use Franco-Burgundy, partially because it implies claims to German Burgundy, but mostly because I want the new Confederation to be thoroughly distinct from the old one.
Luckymoose
The World is Mine
I agree. No Catalonian annexation should occur by filthy French.
I suggest they name it simply the Confederation of States. Let's be real, this is just FBC II: Electric Boogaloo.
This. Also, I generally don't like the idea of retconning in the mediaeval timeline of this world to create concepts for use now. I'd never heard anything about this so-called administrative division called "West Francia" existing any longer than it did in OTL before, so it shouldn't exist now - and in any case it's downright implausible since it would surely have ended up being translated into "West France" or even "France" anyway. A Latinism like that is hardly going to end up being in common parlance, or even in any official documents that weren't in Latin.
(And it's not Franco-Burgundy. Goodness me, how long did I spend telling people not to use that particular coinage?)
Anyway, my opinion is in favour of the Confederation of Continental States.
Very well, I can and will elaborate on the history. Based on my initial timeline, one of the earliest PODs for the history is that the French territories were integrated into the Holy Roman Empire sometime during the 10th century. The French states remained nominally within the Holy Roman Empire until England (yes, I'm assuming Will the Bastard still did an invasion or someone like him anyways; a fairly unreasonable assumption when I consider it now; that's why next time, I'll just properly build the history as a prequel NES-lite) started picking away at them in the 12th and 13th centuries. During the time the French states were under the HRE, they were referred to collectively as "West Francia" as the administrative region involved, thus prolonging the use of the phrase as a geographical entity. That is the historical reasoning for the name, but there's definitely been some other good suggestions here. When it comes down to it, the choice is J.K. Stockholme's.
But that doesn't make the blindest bit of sense. What's "Francia" in French? "France". Why on earth would they have kept on using the Latin for "Francia" in this world once they'd stopped using Latin for everything else, any more than in our world - and why would they have kept calling it "west", any more than in our world, once the other half of it started being called "Germany"?
That's fair enough, that was just the original reasoning I had for it. No emotional attachment to any particular name at this point, my only issue from the perspective of the NPCs was that it avoid a ethnic connotation.
Terrance888
Discord Reigns
I firmly believe that Germania shall include "west Germany" sooner or later. It is manifest destiny!"
Yes, fair enough, but - as I say - it's deeply implausible and doesn't achieve what you want it to anyway.
J.K. Stockholme
Right Opposition
yo guys, what do you think of European Confederation, Continental Confederation, or Confederation of European States? (I'm deliberating)
Gem Hound
Deity
Gaul was the Roman name for the area occupied by the Celtic Tribes. Not the Frankish Tribes.
