Capto Iugulum

[theDright]

To: Franco-Burgundian Confederation
From: Argentina

Describing desire for justice in the Rape of Poland and Purging of Prussia as a lynch mob implies a certain lack of legitimacy on those seeking it. Punishment of Russian crimes by other states has very limited avenues. If Russia were still part of the League, then it could be tried in that international criminal court that you have, but it wasn't. The only option now seems to be censure, sanctions, and perhaps open conflict. Will Confederate blood be spilled to protect Russian murderers, butchers, and thieves? An injust peace festers and poisons all that it touches; justice is the only cure.

 

[Crezth]

OOC: The Kingdom of Hungary for Attention

IC-

To: The Confederation
From: The United Kingdom

We should have known better than to expect anything but a weasel answer. The fact remains that you are defending a peace which is predicated in part on Russia's continued murderous oppression. This particular element, in fact, has received little meaningful denunciation from the Confederation, and in fact the Confederation has elected to maintain her co-operation with the Russian Empire in spite of this. You are accomplices to their murder, shielding them with your very fine leagues and legality all while with the other hand waving the olive branch. Despicable.

Our posited scenarios about Russian expansionism were hypothetical, though we remark with some disappointment how much the Confederation chose on debunking their likelihood rather than ponder the ethical consequences of their being carried out. In particularly, we are troubled that the Confederation seems all too willing to allow the Russians to conquer and annex the GEL, and perhaps institute another slaughter in those regions. And all of it would be done with Confederate approval, would it not? Or non-disapproval, as you may prefer it be called.

Recall that a good man who does nothing to stop evil is the greatest evil of all.

 

[spryllino]

To: Franco-Burgundian Confederation
From: Argentina

Describing desire for justice in the Rape of Poland and Purging of Prussia as a lynch mob implies a certain lack of legitimacy on those seeking it.

In so far as the initial analogy is a useful one, which we do not think it is.

Punishment of Russian crimes by other states has very limited avenues. If Russia were still part of the League, then it could be tried in that international criminal court that you have, but it wasn't.

This is entirely down to the outright refusal of the Germans to put this option to the League. We might accept that our position was undermined by this remark if we had not, ourselves, urged the use of the League's mechanisms to resolve the crisis.

The only option now seems to be censure, sanctions, and perhaps open conflict. Will Confederate blood be spilled to protect Russian murderers, butchers, and thieves? An injust peace festers and poisons all that it touches; justice is the only cure.

We hope no blood will be spilled at all either to protect or to attack Russia, and it is our opinion that if any were it would only make the situation exponentially worse, and everyone would thereby become quite clearly complicit in a world war.

 

[Mickzter97]

OOC: The Kingdom of Hungary for Attention

 

[spryllino]

OOC: The Kingdom of Hungary for Attention

IC-

To: The Confederation
From: The United Kingdom

We should have known better than to expect anything but a weasel answer. The fact remains that you are defending a peace which is predicated in part on Russia's continued murderous oppression. This particular element, in fact, has received little meaningful denunciation from the Confederation, and in fact the Confederation has elected to maintain her co-operation with the Russian Empire in spite of this. You are accomplices to their murder, shielding them with your very fine leagues and legality all while with the other hand waving the olive branch. Despicable.

We denounced, and will continue to denounce, the Russian Empire for its murderous oppression of its people at present and for any murderous oppression that it may exhibit in future.

Our posited scenarios about Russian expansionism were hypothetical, though we remark with some disappointment how much the Confederation chose on debunking their likelihood rather than ponder the ethical consequences of their being carried out.

Indeed, we told you that if the Russians attacked Scandinavia, we would be obliged by our alliance with Scandinavia to act; if the Russians directly attacked Constantiople, we should no longer trust them and should find more trustworthy allies at the first available opportunity. We do say such instances are unlikely, however, but this does not diminish the fact that we have not failed to express perfectly clearly what our course of action would be under such circumstances.

In particularly, we are troubled that the Confederation seems all too willing to allow the Russians to conquer and annex the GEL, and perhaps institute another slaughter in those regions. And all of it would be done with Confederate approval, would it not? Or non-disapproval, as you may prefer it be called.

Recall that a good man who does nothing to stop evil is the greatest evil of all.

We disapprove of any aggressive action by Russia against the GEL, and if we still had our alliance with Austria, which we have desired to maintain, we would be obliged to go to war with Russia under any such circumstances.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

To: Franco-Burgundian Confederation
From: Vinland

Once again, your words and planned actions sing two different tunes. And why, perchance, was our metaphor inadequate to describe the situation at hand? Do we have to elabourate that this criminal you are sheltering is a powerful and influential man who can promise you significant benefits in exchange for your continued cooperation?

 

[spryllino]

To: Franco-Burgundian Confederation
From: Vinland

Once again, your words and planned actions sing two different tunes.

Only if you entirely disregard our thorough exposition of how our words and planned actions, in fact, accord.

And why, perchance, was our metaphor inadequate to describe the situation at hand?

Because there is no generally acknowledged international police force that has the authority to break into our house and take away from us any man soever who takes refuge with us.

Do we have to elabourate that this criminal you are sheltering is a powerful and influential man who can promise you significant benefits in exchange for your continued cooperation?

What benefits? Indeed you will have to elaborate if we are to follow you here.

 

[TheLastJacobite]

To: Konfederation i Frankrike och Burgund
From: Royaume du Vinland

Yes, but if you hold a defensive alliance with Russia, you stand against global efforts to bring the perpetrators of this crime to justice. Hiding a criminal in your house and promising to defend him makes you complicit in his crime, no matter how strongly or publically you have disapproved of his actions.

To Vinland
From Russia

We find that to be a poor analogy, as we are not hiding from anyone. Any nation wishing to impose it's own form of justice upon Russia is, as always, more than welcome to try. However, as those nations complaining at how we dealt with the Prussian rebels have either been defeated by us in battle quite recently, such as the British, or nations in the Western Hemisphere who have no business intruding into Europe, such as Brazil and yourself, we don't think anyone in either group has the mettle to do anything about it.

In regards to Scandinavia, as we have stated many times previously, we will follow the lead of Emperor Harald in that matter, however he chooses to act. We have no desire or intention to take any action in regards to the Workers Commonwealth without his direct and express approval. He has our full support in pursuing a peaceful solution.

As for our defensive alliance with the Confederation, they should have no need to justify our arrangement when Britain and Brazil continue to be run by warmongers who bully other nations into conforming to their world view. It is Brandenburg, not ourselves, that has created a terrorist organization for the express purpose of agitating and fomenting rebellion within their neighboring nations, which has the full backing of the British government. Anyone in Europe who doesn't feel threatened by that is either a fool or a British pawn.

Russia is the largest nation on Earth, we have the second largest economy in the world, as well as the largest and best army. We have no need to strike the first blow against anyone, but you can be certain we will strike the last blow against anyone foolish enough to attack us.

 

[Mickzter97]

never mind

 

[theDright]

To: Confederation
From: Argentina

Claiming that Austria is at fault for the failure of your alliance is absurd. Confederate refusal to reject Russia is at the heart of the issue. I don't know how well the Vinnish metaphor works either, but it appears you promise to protect a murderer, which even you acknowledge as such, out of fear of those around you. The rest of the League and the world seems to desire justice, why don't you?

 

[Crezth]

To: The Confederation
From: The United Kingdom

Well, as it stands, your denunciation of Russia is rather toothless, isn't it? You claim to denounce them, and yet you are willing to come to their defense should they be attacked. If peace is your primary interest here, and not any particular willingness to ally with Russia, why not ally with the UK? Or Vinland? Or the USA? Or Brazil? Or Japan? Or Arabia? Or Persia? Or Kurdistan? Why limit yourself to one (murderous, aggressive, genocidal) Empire when there are dozens of other nations whose defense you can guarantee - all in the name of world peace?

We disapprove of any aggressive action by Russia against the GEL, and if we still had our alliance with Austria, which we have desired to maintain, we would be obliged to go to war with Russia under any such circumstances.

So the Confederation is perfectly willing to allow nations she isn't allied with to be crushed, consumed, and slaughtered wholesale by the Russian Empire? Good to know the League was never really about preserving "the" peace, just "your" peace. That warms our heart.

OOC-

Russia is the largest nation on Earth, we have the second largest economy in the world, as well as the largest and best army. We have no need to strike the first blow against anyone, but you can be certain we will strike the last blow against anyone foolish enough to attack us.

Russia invictus.

 

[TheLastJacobite]

To: The Confederation
From: The United Kingdom

If peace is your primary interest here, and not any particular willingness to ally with Russia, why not ally with the UK? Or Vinland? Or the USA? Or Brazil? Or Japan? Or Arabia? Or Persia? Or Kurdistan? Why limit yourself to one (murderous, aggressive, genocidal) Empire when there are dozens of other nations whose defense you can guarantee - all in the name of world peace?

You mean the nations the Confederation was at war with only a few short years ago, who stripped them of their colonies? Or the ones who continue to back Brandenburg, who openly calls for the annexation of Confederation territory?

OOC: Crezth, I disapprove of your continual latent sarcasm when discussing my invincibility

 

[spryllino]

To: Confederation
From: Argentina

Claiming that Austria is at fault for the failure of your alliance is absurd. Confederate refusal to reject Russia is at the heart of the issue. I don't know how well the Vinnish metaphor works either, but it appears you promise to protect a murderer, which even you acknowledge as such, out of fear of those around you. The rest of the League and the world seems to desire justice, why don't you?

We, as explained already, desire peace on the continent above justice. As far as Austria's withdrawal of their alliance is concerned, it is their prerogative to cancel whatever alliances they desire to cancel, but they can hardly expect us, having cancelled their alliance with us, to leap to their defence in case of war as we might otherwise have done.

To: The Confederation
From: The United Kingdom

Well, as it stands, your denunciation of Russia is rather toothless, isn't it?

But yet we have achieved more than you have ever achieved in this matter; not least by our energies many Prussians got free away from the genocide, and not least by our energies there will be no war in Scandinavia. What can you say you have achieved except the disruption of the League?

You claim to denounce them, and yet you are willing to come to their defense should they be attacked. If peace is your primary interest here, and not any particular willingness to ally with Russia, why not ally with the UK? Or Vinland? Or the USA? Or Brazil? Or Japan? Or Arabia? Or Persia? Or Kurdistan? Why limit yourself to one (murderous, aggressive, genocidal) Empire when there are dozens of other nations whose defense you can guarantee - all in the name of world peace?

We have not received any offer of alliance from anyone, nor do we believe that many of the nations listed by you could in any fashion make use of our alliance, nor do we believe that an alliance with a lot of those nations would, in fact, be highly conducive to world peace.

So the Confederation is perfectly willing to allow nations she isn't allied with to be crushed, consumed, and slaughtered wholesale by the Russian Empire? Good to know the League was never really about preserving "the" peace, just "your" peace. That warms our heart.

If Austria wants our help, our offer to renew our alliance stands. We can hardly promise intervention to nations that have clearly implied by their diplomacy that they have no desire for it.

 

[Circuit]

To: Franco-Burgundian Confederacy
From: United States of America

All arguments boil down to this: your denunciation of Russia means very little without a viable threat to back it up. The Russians have indicated as much in the general tone of the communique. If the Confederation were serious about ending the Prussian genocide, then they would threaten the termination of their defensive alliance with Russia. Otherwise not only will the Russians not take the Confederate threats seriously at all, but they will act with greater impunity knowing that any intervention taken against them will meet knee-jerk Confederate resistance. So your alliance not only dampens your cries, but the cries of the rest of the world, and the Prussian genocide will continue unabated, along with perhaps other crimes against civilized humanity.

If the Confederation is serious about ending the Prussian genocide, they should threaten the termination of their alliance. Otherwise, the Confederacy shows that the mass killing of Germans is not their top priority. We're sure the German minorities in Burgundy will greatly appreciate that. The German Brotherhood is likely to only grow in the Confederacy if they continue to support the Russians, which could potentially tear the Confederation apart. What will the Confederate response be then?

 

[erez87]

Spryllino, remind them who signed the peace that killed Poland, weakened Hungary and brought forward the Prussian destruction... You know... Those brits...

 

[spryllino]

To the USA
From the Confederation

The Confederation was under the impression that the Prussian rebellion and genocide were now fully concluded, and that there were no more Prussians for the Russians to kill, and this is the assumption all our diplomacy up to this point has been based on.

OOC: If we are mistaken, we can hardly now issue such a threat because we are past the deadline for order revisions.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

OOC@TLJ: Well, Crezth is a very latent kind of guy, you know?

OOC@spryllino: Vinland is still operating ships to transport refugees out of the afflicted areas.

 

[Circuit]

To the USA
From the Confederation

The Confederation was under the impression that the Prussian rebellion and genocide were now fully concluded, and that there were no more Prussians for the Russians to kill, and this is the assumption all our diplomacy up to this point has been based on.

OOC: If we are mistaken, we can hardly now issue such a threat because we are past the deadline for order revisions.

OOC: I doubt that would be the case. There are probably millions of Prussian civilians. The Russians have killed hundreds of thousands of them, but that may not be enough. But I could be wrong.

I do realize at this point it's all moot. In fact, I didn't plan to say anything because I don't exactly have clean hands myself. But the discussion was dragging on for so looong...

@erez: we'd just reply it was of necessity. And that we didn't know there would be genocide.

 

[TheLizardKing]

From: Austria
To: The Franco-Burgundian Confederation

We have explained to you privately, and will do so now in a more public manner, that our decision to break off our defensive alliance with you was purely based on the support you still give to Russia. We don't wish to be allied to the barbarians in the east through proxy. We wish for good relations with the Confederation, but your support of the decadent regime in Moscow makes that difficult. If at any point your unnecessary alliance with the horde is broken, Austria will be first in line to reapply for a defensive treaty with you. Until that is the case however, we must stay removed from you diplomatically.

 

[TheLastJacobite]

OOC@spryllino: Vinland is still operating ships to transport refugees out of the afflicted areas.

OOC: Don't bother; they're all dead or elsewhere. Though, I guess there may be Poles who want to leave