Catalonia to vote on independence 9/11/2014

[Antilogic]

I, for one, welcome our new Galt's Gulch Catalan nation.

Spoiler :

 

[JohannaK]

There was a time in which such threads were supposed to be opened by me

It took me this long because I was waiting for you to open it.

 

[bhsup]

There was a time in which such threads were supposed to be opened by me

It took me this long because I was waiting for you to open it.

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss??

 

[strijder20]

I hope this doesn't get through (independence, not the referendum an sich) but if there is wide enough support for it in Catalonia, I guess there is no other choice.

 

[Tahuti]

What a nice ad hominem you got there.

Note that insults do not necessarily constitute ad hominem, since these are not necessarily intended as an argument and therefore, in such case, not logically fallacious. Though it wasn't an insult, truth be told.

I hope this doesn't get through (independence, not the referendum an sich) but if there is wide enough support for it in Catalonia, I guess there is no other choice.

Do you strongly fear that Catalan independence will set a precedent in favour of Flemish independence?

 

[eduhum]

The 9th of November 2014 I will open a thread called 'Catalonian fail. Why u no voting?' or something like that.

If there IS a voting I promise solemnly to alter my signature to something humiliating, speaking of which, I haven't touched it in years..

 

[Formaldehyde]

"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers."
~Thomas Jefferson

They must have had incredibly bad newspapers back then. The only case where that is demonstrably true today is with Fox News viewers.

But now I have to ask. Do you believe it is true? Or were you just trolling JoanK?

 

[strijder20]

Do you strongly fear that Catalan independence will set a precedent in favour of Flemish independence?

Yes, that's indeed what I'm fearing for. For me it'd be ideal if Catalonia would become a semi-autonomous region in Spain with more regional power.

 

[Tahuti]

But now I have to ask. Do you believe it is true? Or were you just trolling JoanK?

I strongly believe it is true. While newspapers may not necessarily be bad, the fact is that if you don't read anything besides it, you will be bound to lack the knowledge to see everything from more than one perspective. That's how flame wars essentially start.

 

[Kyriakos]

Some people only care that they won't fall to the abyss while running to it from the right side.
They believe it is impossible to fall in it if you run to it from the left side.

Newspapers can be crap regardless of their ideology

 

[JohannaK]

I strongly believe it is true. While newspapers may not necessarily be bad, the fact is that if you don't read anything besides it, you will be bound to lack the knowledge to see everything from more than one perspective. That's how flame wars essentially start.

You do know that no two papers hold the same view on any random event, do you? Even if they did, what makes you think I only read newspapers? Don't you read the papers or watch the news? And do you only read papers or watch news all day?

 

[Azale]

Winner's embrace of the EU should make his position on Catalan independence the least surprising thing ever. He does make one important point though...Catalonia has to pretty much appeal to Brussels right away right? How is independence anything more than an illusion when you have no control over economic policy?

 

[Winner]

Winner's embrace of the EU should make his position on Catalan independence the least surprising thing ever.

Meaning what, exactly?

He does make one important point though...Catalonia has to pretty much appeal to Brussels right away right? How is independence anything more than an illusion when you have no control over economic policy?

Right now, Catalonia is a region within an EU member state. If it ever becomes independent, it will have to apply for EU membership (I mean, if it wants membership) as any other country. If the Catalan nationalists think such a hassle is worth it, I'd advise them to make sure their divorce with Madrid is an amiable one, because any current EU member state can block the accession of a new country.

I am not sure if Catalan "prosperity" would last very long without an access to EU markets, but perhaps I am wrong.

 

[Tahuti]

I am not sure if Catalan "prosperity" would last very long without an access to EU markets, but perhaps I am wrong.

Which is why Switzerland and Norway for economic purposes are de-facto EU members.

 

[Winner]

Which is why Switzerland and Norway for economic purposes are de-facto EU members.

Yup. I am just trying to talk sense into Catalan nationalists who think they will

a) break off Spain, Madrid be damned
b) join the EU as an independent country with no problems whatsoever
c) profit.

That's not how it works. Joining the EU or even securing access to the EU common market through other means (EFTA or a bilateral agreement) is conditional on the approval of all its existing members. If the Catalans manage to royally pee off the Spanish government, then Spain may easily block Catalan accession to the EU (or EFTA or the other things).

What I mean to say: if you want to split from Spain, it's in your vital interest to make sure Spain is fine with it and won't make life miserable for you afterwards.

 

[bhsup]

Is it really all that certain that they won't be EU members by default if they do leave Spain? Scotland seems to think they have a legit case on remaining EU members without having to re-apply again on their own.

 

[JohannaK]

What I mean to say: if you want to split from Spain, it's in your vital interest to make sure Spain is fine with it and won't make life miserable for you afterwards.

We all want that. Problem is it is never ever ever ever ever going to happen ever. Needs more 'ever's, but you get the idea. So we're gonna try our best at it. Spain is the most stupidly vicious country there is, and won't hesitate to stab itself in the gut if it knows it will hurt someone else too.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Winner's embrace of the EU should make his position on Catalan independence the least surprising thing ever.

I don't know. It does put him in an awful jam of rushing to defend Ukraine's "independence" on the one hand, and saying that people in Europe should accept the same situation.

 

[Winner]

Is it really all that certain that they won't be EU members by default if they do leave Spain? Scotland seems to think they have a legit case on remaining EU members without having to re-apply again on their own.

From all that I've heard so far from the European Commission, the EU council and other relevant institutions, it seems they'll have to reapply like any other country. See this video (an EC statement considering this issue). It can't be much clearer at this point.

I am sure "some solution" could be found it there was will, but such an arrangement would have to be concluded prior to declaration of independence and it would require a consensus among all the relevant parties.

We all want that. Problem is it is never ever ever ever ever going to happen ever. Needs more 'ever's, but you get the idea. So we're gonna try our best at it. Spain is the most stupidly vicious country there is, and won't hesitate to stab itself in the gut if it knows it will hurt someone else too.

Yeah, I am sure every Spaniard eats two Catalonian children for breakfast; a boy and a girl, salted with Catalonian tears.

I don't know. It does put him in an awful jam of rushing to defend Ukraine's "independence" on the one hand, and saying that people in Europe should accept the same situation.

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Apples and oranges, and you know it.

Of course. Russians are Apples, Spaniards are Oranges, you can't compare the two like they're equal.