CBob02 Jaguar Conquest

[CommandoBob]

What size is London now? And what was it defended with on the first flip?

 

[Norton II]

Size 5. On the first flip, I had one jag inside the city. According to CivAssist II, we'd need 118 units in London to stop a flip.

 

[CommandoBob]

Size 5. On the first flip, I had one jag inside the city. According to CivAssist II, we'd need 118 units in London to stop a flip.

Upon serious and studious reflection of London's cultural conversion problem, I must take a quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

'Burn her anyway!'

Raze away, my friend, raze away.

 

[Norton II]

Just wrapped up the set. To summarize:
-We captured Warwick and Liverpool, razed Nottingham, captured London, then recaptured and abandoned London after it flipped. England's down to 6 cities.
-We have 12 jags waiting near Camp Koala (a new town) ready to move toward Brighton (also a new town).
-I haven't encountered more than 3 spears defending any English town, including London. Warwick had 2 spears and 2 archers. This should be easy.
-Maya and Mongolia are still at war, but it seems pretty indecisive. There are some Mayan units in our territory moving toward Mongolia.
-We have 74 jags.

Writeup later, save now: View attachment CBob02_AD_350_Norton.SAV

 

[Sashie VII]

lurker's comment: Just wondering, on average how many jags do you bring to attack one city? And the average losses on each assault? Thanks

 

[Norton II]

Didn't mean to put it off this long, but here it is:

Preflight: reassign citizens in Aztec Azaleas and Cancerville--C-ville making 2-turn jags now (AzAz still making 1-turn jags)
IBT:
-jags: AzAz (1), South Cowtown (5), C-ville (2)
-Ottomans build ToA
-Lizzie wants to talk--she'll give us poly, HBR, or dover; nope!
1: settle Camp Koala (Aztec name was Cempoala), start rax
IBT:
-Osman says remove or declare--we remove
-English capture 3 slaves
-English start STAW
-jags: AzAz (1), Into the Woods (3), Sonething non-Aztec (3), Just South of Rome (3), Fake Fur Coat (3)
2: settle Horse Hill, start rax
IBT:
-English archer kills elite jag outside Warwick (0-1)
-Mongols and Maya fight
-Abe builds the Great Lighthouse in Boston! must've had a leader
-jags: AzAz (1), Chicken Itza (15), Oasisville (4), Desert City (3), C-ville (2)
-JSOR riots
3:
-capture London and Great Wall: 3 jags win, 4 lose, 4 retreat (4-5); was defended by 3 spears; 6 resisters
-capture Warwick: 4 jags win, 7 lose, 1 retreats (8-12); was defended by 2 spears and 2 archers; 2 resisters
-kill English spear that captured slaves, take slaves back (9-12)
-kill archer near Horse Hill (10-12)
IBT:
-English horse kills jag (10-13)
-Maya start GLib and HG, Ottomans finish HG
-jags: AzAz (1), Cowtown (5)
4:
-kill English horse and archer, lose 1 jag (12-14)
-jag pillages English horses
IBT:
-horse kills jag (12-15)
-jags: AzAz (1), ITW (3), SNA (3), FFC (3), C-ville (2)
-settlers: Hooka Huacan (10)
-London flips!!!! lose 1 jag
-England starts STAW and GLib
5:
-recapture London: 2 jags win, 4 lose, 1 retreats (14-19); was defended by 2 spears; 5 resisters
-kill horse and archer, lose jag (16-20)
-abandon London
IBT: jags: AzAz (1), DC (3), S. Cowtown (5)
6: kill 2 archers, lose 1 jag (18-21)
IBT:
-kill horse and archer, lose 1 jag on defense (20-22)
-jags: AzAz (1), ITW (2), JSOR (4), O-ville (4), C-ville (2)
7: kill archer, lose jag (21-23)
IBT: jags: AzAz (1), SNA (3), FFC (3)
8: kill barb horse
IBT:
-Temujin says remove or declare--we remove
-jags: AzAz (1), ITW (2), DC (3), Cowtown (4), C-ville (2)
9: move northern stack into striking range of Nottingham, southern stack into striking range of Liverpool
IBT:
-kill archer (22-23)
-jags: AzAz (1), JSOR (3)
-settlers: Rome (15)
10:
-Liverpool captured: 2 jags win, 3 lose, 1 retreats (24-26)
-Nottingham razed: 2 jags win, 2 lose (26-28)
-both cities were defended by 2 spears
Notes:
-As mentioned before, we have a small stack ready to move toward Brighton, and the Liverpool stack should be able to take out Oxford pretty easily. The northern stack should be able to take at least 1 more town. After that, the survivors can pillage while awaiting reinforcements.
-I don't think England will last much longer, and I doubt it will ever be a threat again. After we're done with them, we should probably turn our attention back to the Maya.
-It just occurred to me that Liverpool's name should be changed to Pancreas Lake.

 

[CommandoBob]

-Liverpool captured: 2 jags win, 3 lose, 1 retreats (24-26)
-Nottingham razed: 2 jags win, 2 lose (26-28)

Not too shabby. We lose a little bit more than we win, but we have plenty of Jaguars.

Lboogie13 is up!

 

[Lboogie13]

Consider this a got it. I will play tomorrow evening after work. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[CommandoBob]

Consider this a got it. I will play tomorrow evening after work. Any thoughts and suggestions would be appreciated.

I've not had a chance to open this game in over a month and we've had no screen shots in quite a while, so I can't be very specific on what needs to be done.

The Great Lighthouse is in Boston and that will help us attack the Ottomans (IIRC, they are on a large island). So we should consider attacking towards Boston to get that wonder.

The Mongols and Maya are fighting (The Great M & M War) so leave them alone and let them help us by weakening each other.

If America is at peace with everyone, including us, we need to change that. We can either declare on America or else MA with someone else and have them fight America also. Sort of tricky to suggest an MA without knowing more about our status. An America at war is an America is not researching new techs as rapidly, which in turn makes our plans easier.

We need to keep expanding our borders and building more cities. We need barracks in our cities and then we need to make vJags. We may need more workers to help connect our new cities and to road to them.

I'd have to really study the game right now, but I've thought that a road through the jungles east of Rome made a lot of sense because it cut down on movement time when our Jags head to England or America. Jungle roads take 9WT to build so it is either a long term project or a multi-worker project. I really don't know how feasible either method is.

If you have questions, feel free to ask.

 

[Lboogie13]

Pre-flight: Everything looks good. Plenty of Jags in good position. England is going down. I will switch my attention to the Mongols if I can do England enough damage. Hit enter

IBT - Liverpool riots

360 - hire an entertainer in Liverpool, complete road to Warwick, attack Oxford, 2-3 with 3 retreats. There were only 2 spears defending. 5 resisters but keep the city. Garrison 5 units to quell the rebellion. Move stacks towards Brighton and Canterbury (there are rumors of magical chocolate eggs made in the city, or is that Cadbury....)

IBT - Mangols settle new city between Liverpool and Warwick, Liverpool comes under control.

370 - kill random barb, Canterbury is taken, 2-3 with 2 retreats. Again there is 2 spears defending and 5 resisters. I garrision the with several units and move the rest south towards Hastings.

IBT - Mongols ask us to kindly leave their territory and I comply. English archer retreats our Jag. We love the chief day in Oasisville.

380 - Attack on Brighton is victorious, the city is auto-razed. 3 wins, no losses and 2 retreats. The RNG gods were generous. There were 2 spears and 1 archer. Oxford resistance is done (all those academics apparently don't make good rebels) but the city riots. MM the city.

IBT - Oxford is under control, Liverpool resistance is done.

390 - kill random barb, unit moves

IBT - Mayans and Mongols continue to engage in meaningless, fruitless battles.

400 - Founded Texaco Oil Co. (Aztec name was Txalmanco), rax in 20. Also found By the Bay by a little bay on the western coast, rax in 20.

IBT - barb kills 3 unprotected workers

410 - Disberse barb camp in retaliation for our slain workers. Founded Stop Sign City (Aztec name was Hexag-something or other. Hexagon=stop sign), rax in 20.

IBT - zzzz

420 - Attack Hastings. It is defended by 2 very stubborn spears. 2-5 with 4 retreats. I capture city and 1 slave. There are 5 resisters. The English are basically finished at this point. The Mongols have been weakened and distracted by their war with the Mayans and we have huge stacks near their territory so I declare war and move into their territory.

I attack Kazan and go 2-1 with 1 retreat. Again there were 2 spears defending. I capture the city with no resisters but no citizens working. I attack Hoyd (Mongol) and go 3-4 with 6 retreats. 2 spears and 1 archer defending. I capture the city, with 3 resisters and 4 slaves. I raze another Mongol city near Kazan. Unfortunately, I forgot to note the name. In any event, go 1-2 with 6 retreats. There was only 1 spear defending. I defeat 4 cities in one turn so I decide my jags need a break.

IBT - lose 2 slaves to barb horse that appears from the jungle. Time to start protecting workers and seek out that stupid barb camp. My fault about the workers.

430 - Found Texas Panhandle (Aztec name is Texepan). Sorry, today is not my day for creative names. Rax in 20. Move units around.

IBT - zzzz

440 - zzzzz

IBT - zzzzz

450 - kill 2 barbs and disperse camp. Kill random Mongol archer. Attack Tabriz, the current Mongol capital. 3 wins, 8 losses and 5 retreats. RNG made it expensive. 3 spears were defending the city. This is the first time I saw more than 2 spears defending. I decide to keep the city and try to quell the 3 resisters.

The RNG is a little kinder with my attack on Darhan 2 wins, 1 loss and 1 retreat. Not a bad attack considering 2 spears defended the city. I take the city with no resisters, rax in 20.

The next attack is Newcastle, the last English city I can see. 4 wins, 1 loss and only 2 retreats. Thank you RNG! 3 spears and 1 horse defended Newcastle. I garrison 6 units there. That should be the destruction of the....wait a minute. The English have Dover left somewhere as their last city. I think it is south of the Americans. You can see the outline of a city but not the actual name.

Post-flight: There are 6 units in Newcastle and 4 in Hastings just to the north available to attack Dover. It make take some time to get down there however and Newcastle and Hastings are still rebelling.

The Mongols only have 2 cities left, one looks like it is recently settled and has a pop. of 1. There is a stack of 10 jags headed for Almarikh, the other Mongol city with a pop. of 3. That stack is 1 turn away and there are 2 more jags right behind the stack. We have approximately 70 jags left and several settlers. There is still many jags left to move. I wanted to leave them for the next player to decide their plan of attack. I took down 10 cities and settled 3 new cities. I took my best guess about city placement as there are no recent dotmaps.

View attachment CBob02_AD_450_Lboogie.SAV

 

[CommandoBob]

Some Eye Candy;


450 AD Ottomans

450 AD Mongols

450 AD Maya and America

Lots of Mayan troops around our cities; not a good time to make war on Maya. May try to MA with Maya vs. America to draw Mayan troops away from our cities and into the field. Reinforcments would be targeted on Mayan cities while the Mayan Army is away trying to kill American units. May not work. If we betrayed the Mayans before 20 turns were up we would trash our reputation, which is generally a No-No is SGs.

Need to capture and hold Boston for the Wonder it has (Great Lighthouse). That will help us deal with the Ottomans.

These ideas are not very well thought and may not work. They just seem like they could work.

 

[Phaedo]

I think you are on target. The Americans definitely seem to be the next logical targets. I like the idea of drawing Maya in as well. They may go for it although we'll probably have to pay. Otherwise, I'd say just go it alone. I think we could wage a 2 front war and get rid of Ugly at the same time.

 

[CommandoBob]

450 AD Despotism 7.0.3
1851 gold +58 gpt
Republic (-- turns)

City Builds

1. Aztec Azalesa (8); vJag in 1, zero growth. 1 turn vJags
2. Warwick (2): barracks in 3, grows in 4.
3. Rome (7): vJag in 3, grows in 29. 5 turn vJags
4. Oxford (4): barracks in 12, grows in 5.
5. Chicken Itza (3): vJag in 13, zero growth. 15 turn vJags
6. Texaco Oil Co. (1) barracks in 15, grows in 5.
7. Teayo (5): vJag in 8, grows in 3. 15 turn vJags
8. Hovd (3): barracks in 17, grows in 16.
9. Hooka Huacan (3): settler in 3, grows in 1.
10. Camp Koala (2): barracks in 1, grows in 1.
11. Into the Woods (6): vJag in 1, zero growth. 2 turn vJags
12. Tabriz (4): barracks in 20, zero growth.
13. Tepexpan (1): barracks in 18, grows in 8,
14. Something non-Aztec (6): vJag in 3, grows in 1. 3 turn vJags
15. Hastings (5): barracks in 17, grows in 16.
16. Canterbury (5): barracks in 12, grows in 2.
17. Frontierville (3): vJag in 9, zero growth. 15 turn vJags
18. Just South of Rome (6): vJag in 2, zero growth. 3 turn vJags
19. Fake Fur Coat (6): vJag in 3, grows in 9999. 2 turn vJags
20. Oasisville (6): vJag in 1, zero growth. 3 turn vJags
21. Newcastle (4): barracks in 20, grows in 10.
22. Desert City (6): vJag in 1, grows in 9999. 3 turn vJags
23. Cowtown (6): vJag in 1, grows in 9999. 4 turn vJags
24. South Cowtown (6): vJag in 1, grows in 9999. 5 turn vJags
25. Cancerville (8): vJag in 1, grows in 20. 2 turn vJags
26. Liverpool (3): barracks in 11, grows in 5.
27. San Diego State (2): settler in 23, grows in 8.
28. Darhan (2): barracks in 20, starves.
29. Horse Hill (3): barracks in 2; grows in 7.
30. By the Bay (1): barracks in 15, grows in 5.
31. Stop Sign City (1): barracks in 16, grows in 6.

City Build Summary

• vJags [14] (Aztec Azaleas, Rome, Chicken Itza, Teayo, Into the Woods, Something non-Aztec, Frontierville, Just South of Rome, Fake Fur Coat, Oasisville, Desert City, Cowtown, South Cowtown and Cancerville)
• Barracks [15] (Warwick, Oxford, Texaco Oil Co., Hovd, Camp Koala, Tabriz, Tepexpan, Hastings, Canterbury, Newcastle, Liverpool, Darhan, Horse Hill, By the Bay and Stop Sign City)
• Settler [2] (Hooka Huacan and San Diego State)

Aztec Military

• 02 Settlers
• 09 Workers
• 01 Spearman
• 04 Galley
• 85 Jaguars
• Military Upkeep
  • 124 Allowed Units
  • 101 Actual Units
  • 000 Cost per turn

Resources

• Strategic
  • 2 Horses
• Luxury
  • 01 Wine
  • 02 Furs
  • 01 Incense
  • 03 Ivory
  • 02 Silks
  • 01 Gems

Foreign City Count

• 03 America
• 01 England
• 06 Maya
• 03 Mongol (two visible, one to the NW with only the border showing)
• 04 Ottomans

Fiddle with the cities (in no real order)
Set South Cowtown to zero growth
Chicken Itza, fire the specialists, everyone becomes farmers.
Teayo, vJag -> settler, 23 turns, will whip in 3 turns.
Hastings, work the plains insead of the woods (city nets 1 shield per turn due to corruption).
Liverpool barracks -> settler, 21 turns, will whip.
Fire both clowns in Darhan.

Turn 0 450 AD

Foreign Affairs
We had an open ended ROP with Abe Lincoln. We quietly let that expire.
Maya have an ROP with Abe and don't want to undo it. Not even for all of our gold (1851).
Maya want 540 for four workers. Nope.
So, no deal with the Maya.

Maya have 14 units visible in and around our cities. I hope they are heading north to fight the Mongols. We have 12 units just outside the Mongol capital of Almarikh. Maya are about 10 turns away from this city.

The Great Lighthouse
With Galleys we stand to lose half of any invasion fleet when we attackthe Ottomans, due to sea tiles, unless we have the Great Lighthouse. Boston is building it and we have plenty of cash, so we investigate Boston for 36 gold.

Boston 450 AD

We can build it faster than that.
Galleys cost 30, vJags 15 and each galley can transport 2 vJags, so each galley would be worth 60 shields.
The Great Lighthouse cost 300 shields.
So, the Great Lighthouse is cheaper if we expect to lose more than 5 loaded ships. We'll lose that many easily, moving Jags across the sea.
We need the Great Lighthouse, but we can't wait for Boston.
Cancerville is our most productive coastal city, netting 10 spt, and from here could build the Lighthouse in 29 turns. We could build a harbor first (2 more turns) and plant forests on the tobacco to boost production to around 12 spt net. That builds the Great Lighthouse in 28 turns and assumes that all the tobacco tiles are made into forest before we begin the Wonder build. Workers are too far away to change the tobacco to forests, so we just switch Cancerville to The Great Lighthouse.

Workers
We have slaves on the mountain E of Hovd; don't know why. This area is pretty well roaded already.
What we need are roads to connect our unconnected cities (Darhan, Tepexpan) and roads to where we want to put new cities. Out in the boonies we don't need to be building mines (Liverpool) or extra roads (Hovd-Warwick). These cities will be very corrupt, netting 1 shield per turn, no matter what we do.
Move those 4 west, off the mountain.
Wake other workers.

Settler
This is not a good spot to build; the new city will not be connected to our trade network.
Moves S onto jungle.

Jags
eJag in Oxford moves to Liverpool, in case the Mongols in Mandalgovi get frisky.
Move Jag into Hovd for crowd control.
Move Jag to the slaves SE of Hovd.
Fan out a stack of Jags near a Maya Horse that is E of Camp Koala, to encourage that Horse to move North, not West.
Move a Jag to protect an awaken slave NW of Hovd.

Tabriz barracks -> galley, to explore the north coast, 30 turns.
​

[IBT]
Looks like we dodge around the Maya and fight the Americans/English while the Mayan fight the Mongols.
Or we take the Mayans on right now.

I like the first option but am open to the second.

And the save is >>HERE<<.

 

[Bucephalus]

With Galleys we stand to lose half of any invasion fleet when we attackthe Ottomans, due to sea tiles, unless we have the Great Lighthouse.

lurker's comment:

Wouldn't that be two thirds? I thought it was a one in three chance of not sinking?

 

[Phaedo]

If we are going to build the GL ourselves; we are in control of, or are in the process of controlling the iron that could be claimed by our enemies; and all enemies are an equal threat, then whoever we can take out the fastest become the primary targets.

We don't know where Liz's last city is, so we might as well make peace with her for whatever techs that give us options. I don't really think we want to change much but it's not like we're going to give anything away. Personally, I think we can manage a 2-front war. The Mayans are a pain. If Abe doesn't get the GL, he's going to get something that may help us. I don't think there is a rush with him unless he has access to iron.

I should have started some boat builds and stupidly didn't. I expect 30 galleys will serve our purposes nicely (I'm thinking 30 cats and 30 Jags in the first landing if the Turks have gunpowder by that time). I'm assuming the goal is to win while still in the AA. We could upgrade our cats and still be building Jags. However, if we are going to do this, let's do it as a primitive empire.

I think the new cities should be built to monopolize iron as a first priority. After that, our road network is lacking. We should probably have a road and/or small navy (while they are waiting for the rest of the landing fleet) to facilitate troop transport on the East side of our sub-continent. We also should consolidate the NE road we have. That needs to be a continuous branch of culture with strategic position (i.e. hills and mountains) fortified with strategic towns. That is the road for both Mayan and US invasion and the road to flank Ugly (and steal his only access to iron) while another force is driving NW. Even if the towns will suck, I think it is worth while laying them down.

We really need a good, continuous road network that will shuffle troops from our core out. The ideal situation would be if the road network had limited junctions where we stationed a couple Jags to monitor movement and limit enemy use of our roads. Regardless, our production is about as good as it's going to get so the only thing that can facilitate reinforcing the front lines is efficient movement on roads.

As long as you have a stack of 20 on each front with reinforcements coming, you are ready to make that a battle front. I was working on a second stack while taking the English cities. We really only need 1 stack per area. The limit is the reinforcements. Keeping 3 stacks going would be possible if they were stacks of 30 (allowing more units to return to friendly territory to heal). A stack of 20 is effectively an army though. The AI won't attack it, especially as we have solo reinforcements moving behind it. We get 3 of those stacks, we can go AW for the rest of the game

 

[CommandoBob]

I should have started some boat builds and stupidly didn't. I expect 30 galleys will serve our purposes nicely (I'm thinking 30 cats and 30 Jags in the first landing if the Turks have gunpowder by that time). I'm assuming the goal is to win while still in the AA. We could upgrade our cats and still be building Jags. However, if we are going to do this, let's do it as a primitive empire.

The Ottomans are isolated and stupid. They have Poly, we have three techs they don't; Lit is one of them; I forget the other two. So when we attack we'll face Spears, Archers and Warriors. They have no contact on the mainland except us.

We won't be able to focus on the Ottomans until the Great Lighthouse completes. We can build up our navy in the meantime; we have plenty of time. Once we get the Great Lighthouse, we get an ROP with the Ottomans, which will let us land our forces over several turns. We'll include a settler in the mix also. And when we are ready, we declare war. Since this will be about 35 turns from now, at the earliest, the Ottomans could be the sole remaining AI, and the rep hit from the ROP rape will be meaningless.

In the boonies I plan to pop rush some settlers. I'll emphasize food production over shield production to help with the pop rushing.

Catapults cost 30 and vJags 15 (IIRC). But they (Cats) hit harder, even if they can't run away. So we should be building them too, if we have the roads in place to get them to the front lines.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment:

Wouldn't that be two thirds? I thought it was a one in three chance of not sinking?

We're not seafaring.

 

[Bucephalus]

We're not seafaring.

lurker's comment: Indeed, which is why you stand to lose two thirds of your fleet, statistically at least; or am I missing something?

 

[CommandoBob]

I think the new cities should be built to monopolize iron as a first priority.

I'll try to make that happen. I hadn't thought of it.

After that, our road network is lacking...We really need a good, continuous road network that will shuffle troops from our core out. The ideal situation would be if the road network had limited junctions where we stationed a couple Jags to monitor movement and limit enemy use of our roads.

In other words, road the marshes and jungles east of Cowtown towards Maya, right? And make our current roads straighter.

Regardless, our production is about as good as it's going to get so the only thing that can facilitate reinforcing the front lines is efficient movement on roads.

Yeah, too bad that is so true.

As long as you have a stack of 20 on each front with reinforcements coming, you are ready to make that a battle front. I was working on a second stack while taking the English cities. We really only need 1 stack per area. The limit is the reinforcements. Keeping 3 stacks going would be possible if they were stacks of 30 (allowing more units to return to friendly territory to heal). A stack of 20 is effectively an army though. The AI won't attack it, especially as we have solo reinforcements moving behind it. We get 3 of those stacks, we can go AW for the rest of the game

We have 85 Jags so we could almost make 3 stacks of 30. We'll need to walk a long way to get to America, so I don't expect a lot of action on these turns.

We could renew our attacks on the Mongols, but I want Mayan units to bleed and die doing that, while we get into position to attack them from two sides after the Yanks and Brits are gone. One 30 unit stack from the East, one 30 unit stack from the West (old America and the last of England) and some smaller stacks to keep the Mongol fighters away from their cities.

May make peace with England and MA against America, just to make our job easier. Won't make peace right away. I'll wait until we have a stack ready to move on America before we MA; not sure when I'll make peace.

@Lboogie13: Excellent job on taking out 10 cities! I just wish these turns could be that exciting.


EDIT:
With any luck I plan to play and post tonight.

 

[CommandoBob]

Indeed, which is why you stand to lose two thirds of your fleet, statistically at least; or am I missing something?

Well, as I understood it, a galley has a 50% chance of surviving the IBT if not in a coastal tile. ( Or was that just PTW?)

And I was just focused on a one-way job with one turn at sea. Coming back to refill would run the same risk, as would taking more new units to the Ottomans.

The chance of a galley surviving two turns at sea would be 25% (or 75% of not surviving.)

With the Great Lighthouse we can survive a turn in a sea tile. And we get our movement bumped up to '4' from '3'. For us, it is a good deal. For the Ottomans, well, probably not.