I agree about the Maya. After that, I think England should be next, especially if Lizzie finishes the Great Lighthouse--that'll make the invasion of Ottoman Island much easier. As for leaving them for last, maybe, but keep in mind that they don't need advanced units to counter us--just a lot of not-so-advanced ones, which is probably what they'll build if unit support doesn't bankrupt them.
CBob02 Jaguar Conquest
- Thread starter CommandoBob
- Start date
I agree about the Maya. After that, I think England should be next, especially if Lizzie finishes the Great Lighthouse--that'll make the invasion of Ottoman Island much easier. As for leaving them for last, maybe, but keep in mind that they don't need advanced units to counter us--just a lot of not-so-advanced ones, which is probably what they'll build if unit support doesn't bankrupt them.
Phaedo
Emperor
Maya is definitely the big threat at the moment. I agree with Norton on making Lizzy next.
As for the spears, take them to a city and disband them to build more Jags.
As for the spears, take them to a city and disband them to build more Jags.
CivActuary
Warlord
PreFlight:
Switch Chichen Itza from a spear to a jag.
mm a few tiles bewteen JSoR and Oasis
IBT
Mayan jav attacks our stack outside of Palenque, we lose a jag (0-1)
Mayan jav attacks a jag outside of Chichen Itza and dies (1-1)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
130 BC Turn 121 (1)
Our stack that razed Bonampak last turnset, consisting of a full strength eJag, a 2/5 eJag, and 10 redlined jags need to heak to be able to continue attacking. They will come under fire this turn by a Mayan vSword and possibly 2 reg Javs. CAII says the probability of the vSword winning, attacking across a river and onto a hill, is 27.5%. Decide to stay put.
Take out a Cherokee camp for 25g (2-1)
Galley was on goto - tsk tsk!
Lots of worker moves and shuffling Jags to the front.
IBT
A Jag dies to the Sword (durn RNG!) but a Jav dies outside of Palanque (3-2)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
ItW: Galley --> Jag (due in 4)
JSoR: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
England is in Republic now.
110 BC Turn 122 (2)
Lots of worker moves and shuffling Jags to the front.
IBT
Mayans will give us 3 techs for peace. Uh, no sorry, we need to destroy you.
Jag retreats vs Mayan sword.
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Chichen Itza flips back to Maya, lost the garrison (3-4)
Desert City: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
90 BC Turn 123 (3)
Jag kills a Barb horse (4-4)
Take out a barb camp (5-4) and promote
Found San Diego State (they are the Aztecs, after all) where I wanted, start on Rax
With only 4 jags in place outside Chichen Itza, it would be suicide to attack it until reinforcements arrive.
Please just assume lots of worker moves and shuffling Jags to the front, I don't feel like Cntl-C Cntl-V anymore.
IBT
Lose 2 Jags and kill 1 Jav in various battles (6-6)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
FFC: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
Cancerville: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
70 BC Turn 124 (4)
Take out a Barb horse and another Barb Warrior in the way, promoting (8-6)
Assembling force to retake Chicken Itza.
IBT
AzAz: vJag --> vJag (due in 1)
Hooka: Settler --> Jag (due in 5)
SnA: Galley --> Jag (due in 3)
Oasis: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
English are building a big Statue made of Ivory that somehow produces horses every few years. What up with that, anyhow?
50 BC Turn 125 (5)
See a Mayan Galley of our eastern coast. Set a couple Jags to shadow it. Better yet, send a couple of our galleys over.
IBT
Mongols extend our peace treaty. Yeah, fine.
Jav attacks and dies (9-6)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Rome: Jag --> Jag (due in 8)
ItW: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
JSoR: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
30 BC Turn 126 (6)
2 more Barbs goes down (11-6)
IBT
Another Jav attacks and dies (12-6)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Cowtown: Rax --> Jag (due in 8)
10 BC Turn 127 (7)
English just entered the Middle Ages.
Snuck a pillager through the Mayan lines and took out their iron hill.
20+ jags ready to take out Chicken Itza next turn.
IBT
Jag retreats to Jav
Mongol Spear pillages Mayan Iron
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Hooka: Jag --> Settler (due in 6)
SnA: Jag --> Jag (due in 3)
FFC: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
Desert City: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
10 AD Turn 128 (8)
6 losses, 8 retreats, and 5 wins later, Chichen Itza is ours once more. (17-12) Rename to Chicken Itza because I type that half the time anyway.
IBT
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
South Cowtown: Rax --> Jag (due in 8)
Cancerville: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
30 AD Turn 129 (9)
Jag retreats vs Barb
Lose one galley but the other takes out the Mayan galley before they could be annoying and land something in our relatively undefended interior. (18-13)
IBT
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
ItW: Jag --> Jag (due in 3)
JSoR: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
Oasis: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
50 AD Turn 130 (10)
Move our stack of doom (27 Jags) to the mountain N of Copan.
Ending Order of Battle:
1 Settler
22 Workers (13 native, 9 slaves)
1 Spear (1v)
4 Galleys
46 Jags (37v/9e)
End Notes.
- The settler is heading for the spot 1N of the lake - from that connection we can water the brown around Frontierville.
- The SoD is on the mountain and can take Copan in 2 turns.
- Barb horse making a pest of itself NE of Cowtown.
- Between healing and consolidating the offense at the start of the turn, and then Chicken Itza flipping, I didn't make a whole lot of progress, which is trouble in this game at this stage. I hopefully have set up a big enough stack with support on the way for you to make good progress, Phaedo.
- England is in the Middle Ages. We need to talk about a strategy to handle them soon.
And the file
>>FILE<<.
Switch Chichen Itza from a spear to a jag.
mm a few tiles bewteen JSoR and Oasis
IBT
Mayan jav attacks our stack outside of Palenque, we lose a jag (0-1)
Mayan jav attacks a jag outside of Chichen Itza and dies (1-1)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
130 BC Turn 121 (1)
Our stack that razed Bonampak last turnset, consisting of a full strength eJag, a 2/5 eJag, and 10 redlined jags need to heak to be able to continue attacking. They will come under fire this turn by a Mayan vSword and possibly 2 reg Javs. CAII says the probability of the vSword winning, attacking across a river and onto a hill, is 27.5%. Decide to stay put.
Take out a Cherokee camp for 25g (2-1)
Galley was on goto - tsk tsk!
Lots of worker moves and shuffling Jags to the front.
IBT
A Jag dies to the Sword (durn RNG!) but a Jav dies outside of Palanque (3-2)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
ItW: Galley --> Jag (due in 4)
JSoR: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
England is in Republic now.
110 BC Turn 122 (2)
Lots of worker moves and shuffling Jags to the front.
IBT
Mayans will give us 3 techs for peace. Uh, no sorry, we need to destroy you.
Jag retreats vs Mayan sword.
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Chichen Itza flips back to Maya, lost the garrison (3-4)
Desert City: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
90 BC Turn 123 (3)
Jag kills a Barb horse (4-4)
Take out a barb camp (5-4) and promote
Found San Diego State (they are the Aztecs, after all) where I wanted, start on Rax
With only 4 jags in place outside Chichen Itza, it would be suicide to attack it until reinforcements arrive.
Please just assume lots of worker moves and shuffling Jags to the front, I don't feel like Cntl-C Cntl-V anymore.
IBT
Lose 2 Jags and kill 1 Jav in various battles (6-6)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
FFC: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
Cancerville: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
70 BC Turn 124 (4)
Take out a Barb horse and another Barb Warrior in the way, promoting (8-6)
Assembling force to retake Chicken Itza.
IBT
AzAz: vJag --> vJag (due in 1)
Hooka: Settler --> Jag (due in 5)
SnA: Galley --> Jag (due in 3)
Oasis: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
English are building a big Statue made of Ivory that somehow produces horses every few years. What up with that, anyhow?
50 BC Turn 125 (5)
See a Mayan Galley of our eastern coast. Set a couple Jags to shadow it. Better yet, send a couple of our galleys over.
IBT
Mongols extend our peace treaty. Yeah, fine.
Jav attacks and dies (9-6)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Rome: Jag --> Jag (due in 8)
ItW: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
JSoR: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
30 BC Turn 126 (6)
2 more Barbs goes down (11-6)
IBT
Another Jav attacks and dies (12-6)
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Cowtown: Rax --> Jag (due in 8)
10 BC Turn 127 (7)
English just entered the Middle Ages.
Snuck a pillager through the Mayan lines and took out their iron hill.
20+ jags ready to take out Chicken Itza next turn.
IBT
Jag retreats to Jav
Mongol Spear pillages Mayan Iron
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
Hooka: Jag --> Settler (due in 6)
SnA: Jag --> Jag (due in 3)
FFC: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
Desert City: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
10 AD Turn 128 (8)
6 losses, 8 retreats, and 5 wins later, Chichen Itza is ours once more. (17-12) Rename to Chicken Itza because I type that half the time anyway.
IBT
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
South Cowtown: Rax --> Jag (due in 8)
Cancerville: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
30 AD Turn 129 (9)
Jag retreats vs Barb
Lose one galley but the other takes out the Mayan galley before they could be annoying and land something in our relatively undefended interior. (18-13)
IBT
AzAz: Jag --> Jag (due in 1)
ItW: Jag --> Jag (due in 3)
JSoR: Jag --> Jag (due in 4)
Oasis: Jag --> Jag (due in 5)
50 AD Turn 130 (10)
Move our stack of doom (27 Jags) to the mountain N of Copan.
Ending Order of Battle:
1 Settler
22 Workers (13 native, 9 slaves)
1 Spear (1v)
4 Galleys
46 Jags (37v/9e)
End Notes.
- The settler is heading for the spot 1N of the lake - from that connection we can water the brown around Frontierville.
- The SoD is on the mountain and can take Copan in 2 turns.
- Barb horse making a pest of itself NE of Cowtown.
- Between healing and consolidating the offense at the start of the turn, and then Chicken Itza flipping, I didn't make a whole lot of progress, which is trouble in this game at this stage. I hopefully have set up a big enough stack with support on the way for you to make good progress, Phaedo.
- England is in the Middle Ages. We need to talk about a strategy to handle them soon.
And the file
>>FILE<<.
CivActuary
Warlord
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Great name!
But I don't understand the second sentence.
Barb Horse we'll just have to dodge around for a while, unless we send a short stack through the jungles on a 'shortcut' to the Mayans.
Be nice to have a city on one of the jungle dyes to help keep our folks happy. But unless the coast is very clear, I don't think this a good place for the current settler.
Be nicer to have roads through the marshes/jungles to cut down on travel time, but that will take a lot of worker-turns.
A slow down was bound to happen, and city flips are a real pest, so don't feel bad. Chicken-Itza (Itza-Chicken ?) is now back being Aztec, and smaller, so except for the lost units, I think the flip was in our favor. The city will be easier to manage, especially if we capture more Mayan cities.
Can we pillage any English Iron? (CA, you did a good thing in pillaging the Mayan Iron.) Then, even if they learn Feudalism, they can't build any Pikes.
Random Thoughts
We may need to consider beating the Mayans down to one or two cities, make peace and then concentrate on England. Not sure, just an idea.
Something to consider, (as my mind rambles), is that we may have to leave weak Civs behind to get at the tech/military leaders. But we can chose the cities they get to keep, making sure they have no iron. Saltpeter will be trickier, but if we are agressive enough, we might keep them fighting too much to research Gunpowder.
If it came to choices, I would prefer to face several weak AIs, even with Gunpowder, than one strong AI with Gunpowder or better.
Phaedo
Emperor
I got it. I may be able to look at it and post some thought tonight but it will more likely be the day after tomorrow.
A quick peace might be nice. It would be good to get cats. Enough of them can red-line pikes. We could conceivably get to the MA ourselves if we don't hook iron.
A quick peace might be nice. It would be good to get cats. Enough of them can red-line pikes. We could conceivably get to the MA ourselves if we don't hook iron.
CivActuary
Warlord
Control-C and Control-V - the Windows keyboard shortcuts for copy and paste. I was saying I'm doing a lot of the same things every turn, so just assume they are happening without me putting the text in the writeup. (Guess these little jokes don't work well when I have to explain them).Great name!
But I don't understand the second sentence.
Might be worth it to send a jag or 2, that's the second horse to come calling from that area. The last thing we want is for someone else to enter the MA and have a massive barbarian uprising right on our doorstep.
First thing we should do upon declaration of war, IMHO. Unless they were pains and settled on top of it.
Maybe. I don't like leaving enemies behind at our backs, but the English are in danger of putting this scenario out of reach, so we certainly need to deal with them soon.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Oh, Copy and Paste.
I was thinking of Civ shortcuts.
I'm not too fond of the idea either, but it is an option.
Phaedo
Emperor
Sorry guys, this has just slipped off my radar the past few days. I may be able to get at it today or will definitely be able to play tomorrow.
Personally, I like the idea of switching enemies for a bit. However, I'm not sure what the team thinks. I think keeping Liz out of the Ma and then going back to Maya would be effective and Maya won't build up too much in that time. We may or may not be able to take Liz out but cutting her down in 2 wars with a genocide against Maya in between should be doable.
Personally, I like the idea of switching enemies for a bit. However, I'm not sure what the team thinks. I think keeping Liz out of the Ma and then going back to Maya would be effective and Maya won't build up too much in that time. We may or may not be able to take Liz out but cutting her down in 2 wars with a genocide against Maya in between should be doable.
CivActuary
Warlord
Except she's already in the MA. I think we may need to lean on her for a while now. It would be nice if we could get allies against her, too.
Phaedo
Emperor
Ok, first order of business will be to get whoever I can into war with Liz and take out her resources.
I'll play tomorrow
I'll play tomorrow
Two things before going to war with England:
1. They have iron, but I can't find it. It must be somewhere in unexplored territory, either north of London or near the city south of Nottingham.
2. IMHO we shouldn't capture London until the Great Lighthouse is built. That's going to help us when it's time to invade the Ottomans.
1. They have iron, but I can't find it. It must be somewhere in unexplored territory, either north of London or near the city south of Nottingham.
2. IMHO we shouldn't capture London until the Great Lighthouse is built. That's going to help us when it's time to invade the Ottomans.
Phaedo
Emperor
Well, I opened the save and had a closer look around at what's going on and I'd like some input before continuing.
We have a spear, are we allowed that?
Maya still has a source of iron although not yet hooked up, as does Ugly.
There is a source open in the West. I think monopolizing iron may be far more important to us than the tech race. If we can control the resources, it doesn't matter what they know how to build. Razing that last Maya city would put iron permanently out of reach for them and we could get control of it with a city.
Before doing anything, I spent some gold to investigate cities and see who has what.
Investigate Nottingham for 45g
Investigate Hovid for 31g as it is the other city with iron
The Yanks don't seem to have access to anything so I didn't bother with an investigation.
Before I do anything else, I'd like a bit of input. Taking the Mayan Cap will give us control of that iron source and then we could go against Liz and get control of the source near Hovid after what I assume is York. I'd like to take that city before heading to Liz. The MA isn't much of a threat if they don't have iron. After controlling the horses, we would only face warriors until someone got gunpowder.
We have a spear, are we allowed that?
Maya still has a source of iron although not yet hooked up, as does Ugly.
There is a source open in the West. I think monopolizing iron may be far more important to us than the tech race. If we can control the resources, it doesn't matter what they know how to build. Razing that last Maya city would put iron permanently out of reach for them and we could get control of it with a city.
Before doing anything, I spent some gold to investigate cities and see who has what.
Investigate Nottingham for 45g
Spoiler :
Investigate Hovid for 31g as it is the other city with iron
Spoiler :
The Yanks don't seem to have access to anything so I didn't bother with an investigation.
Before I do anything else, I'd like a bit of input. Taking the Mayan Cap will give us control of that iron source and then we could go against Liz and get control of the source near Hovid after what I assume is York. I'd like to take that city before heading to Liz. The MA isn't much of a threat if they don't have iron. After controlling the horses, we would only face warriors until someone got gunpowder.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
Just to refresh everyone's memory:
Post #4 said:
For Iron this is certainly true, since it is needed for Pikes and Maces. But with Gunpowder and Saltpeter, the equation changes since we can't see Saltpeter.Phaedo said:
To deny Saltpeter we would have to do a lot of pillaging and just hope for the best. I don't think we would be able to field an attacking force and a pillaging force. (But it would be fun!)
By all means, get the resource, deny it to the AI and make them fight us on our terms, not theirs.
Phaedo
Emperor
Ok, I'm off then. 1st take the Mayan Cap, peace and then head for Lizzie.
Phaedo
Emperor
Take a city tour
MM a little to get some growth and slightly faster production.
If we are able to get CoL and Const, there are some cities that could get 2-turn Jags where they are now 3-turners with Aqueducts and/or Courts. Maya will surely give us something.
T0 50AD
kill the Barb horse
IBT Massive Barb Uprising near S Cowtown
T1 70AD
A bunch of Jags built and went on it again.
Send the stack next to Copan.
IBT 24 Barb horses show up in the marshes. Mongols enter the MA. I think we are looking at quick wars between Liz and Ugly
T2 90AD
Kill 4 Babs
Raze Copan losing 2 Jags (no MGL)
Get peace, CoL and Const for 66g. He wouldn't go for a mutual attack on Liz
Start to consolidate and get hurt Jags back to the rax to heal.
Change SnA to a settler. We are pumping out Jags nicely and the one pump just won't get us the spread we need to monopolize the resources.
Buy a worker from Ugly to slow his connection to iron.
IBT Zzzz
T3 110 AD
Take out some more Barbs
Start moving a stack of 20 towards England
I suppose that after the core has been fully developed, the best thing to do with workers is to road towards our enemies.
IBT Zzzz
T4 130AD
A stack of 26 is set to go into Liz's territory next turn.
Keep at the Barb stack that isn't attacking
IBT Zzzz
T5 150AD
Kill some barbs and send the elites back to heal and head to the front
DOW on Liz and move into her territory
IBT Zzzz
T6 170AD
Raze Coventry and move 22 full strength Jags towards the next target (love those Mountains)
Kill some barbs (2 left)
Start making another stack near Taeyo to defend/attack
IBT Zzzz
T7 190Ad
Keep building the stack
Get rid of the Barbs and send a couple Jags to deal with the shack
Move into Liz's territory again
IBT Zzzz
T8 210AD
More of the same
York falls next turn
IBT Zzzz
T9 230AD
Raze York (lost 2 Jags)
Continue on towards London, which now has the GL
IBT
T10 150AD
Keep moving towards the front.
There are a couple of settlers heading that way. I thought the hill S of Warwick would be a good kill zone and we will need to claim that other source of iron that Ugly has. After that, we should be able to focus on horses.
We have 2 stacks of 20 which seem to be easily enough to take out cities. Maybe we should think about putting Maya and Ugly out of their misery simultaneously after dealing with Liz's core.
The main thing is to just keep the AI confused between war and peace and keep them off the resources. I think Ugly is the main threat at this point because of the iron but I also think we have a bit of time to deal with him.
MM a little to get some growth and slightly faster production.
If we are able to get CoL and Const, there are some cities that could get 2-turn Jags where they are now 3-turners with Aqueducts and/or Courts. Maya will surely give us something.
T0 50AD
kill the Barb horse
IBT Massive Barb Uprising near S Cowtown
T1 70AD
A bunch of Jags built and went on it again.
Send the stack next to Copan.
IBT 24 Barb horses show up in the marshes. Mongols enter the MA. I think we are looking at quick wars between Liz and Ugly
T2 90AD
Kill 4 Babs
Raze Copan losing 2 Jags (no MGL)
Get peace, CoL and Const for 66g. He wouldn't go for a mutual attack on Liz
Start to consolidate and get hurt Jags back to the rax to heal.
Change SnA to a settler. We are pumping out Jags nicely and the one pump just won't get us the spread we need to monopolize the resources.
Buy a worker from Ugly to slow his connection to iron.
IBT Zzzz
T3 110 AD
Take out some more Barbs
Start moving a stack of 20 towards England
I suppose that after the core has been fully developed, the best thing to do with workers is to road towards our enemies.
IBT Zzzz
T4 130AD
A stack of 26 is set to go into Liz's territory next turn.
Keep at the Barb stack that isn't attacking
IBT Zzzz
T5 150AD
Kill some barbs and send the elites back to heal and head to the front
DOW on Liz and move into her territory
IBT Zzzz
T6 170AD
Raze Coventry and move 22 full strength Jags towards the next target (love those Mountains)
Kill some barbs (2 left)
Start making another stack near Taeyo to defend/attack
IBT Zzzz
T7 190Ad
Keep building the stack
Get rid of the Barbs and send a couple Jags to deal with the shack
Move into Liz's territory again
IBT Zzzz
T8 210AD
More of the same
York falls next turn
IBT Zzzz
T9 230AD
Raze York (lost 2 Jags)
Continue on towards London, which now has the GL
IBT
T10 150AD
Keep moving towards the front.
There are a couple of settlers heading that way. I thought the hill S of Warwick would be a good kill zone and we will need to claim that other source of iron that Ugly has. After that, we should be able to focus on horses.
We have 2 stacks of 20 which seem to be easily enough to take out cities. Maybe we should think about putting Maya and Ugly out of their misery simultaneously after dealing with Liz's core.
The main thing is to just keep the AI confused between war and peace and keep them off the resources. I think Ugly is the main threat at this point because of the iron but I also think we have a bit of time to deal with him.
Spoiler :
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
CivActuary
Warlord
Great set Phaedo! And you look like you had tons better RNG luck than what I had.
Here's a question - is research slower for the AI the more civs are left in the game? My line of thinking was something like
- reduce Maya and Ugly to OCC after dealing with Liz's core - they would hardly be able to research things themselves then, and would slow research for the other civs
- if they start sending out settlers, just declare on them and take the slaves.
Here's a question - is research slower for the AI the more civs are left in the game? My line of thinking was something like
- reduce Maya and Ugly to OCC after dealing with Liz's core - they would hardly be able to research things themselves then, and would slow research for the other civs
- if they start sending out settlers, just declare on them and take the slaves.
Phaedo
Emperor
Thanks. My strategy was to attack with vets and elites after they were wounded. There were never more than 2 spears in Liz's cities so it wasn't so bad.
I like the OCC idea. I don't think we would even need to declare peace after a certain point. Just have some Jags around to harvest the slaves.
I think the key now is resources with movement being close behind. It would be nice to get a road out to the NW ending with a stack building on a hill.
CommandoBob
AbstractArt
(Psst, Phaedo, where's the save?)
