CCM2 Epic Mod

[Civinator]

Shmelkin, coffee in CCM2 is a luxury resource and luxury resources in Civ 3 always appear in clusters (so the cluster in your screenshot is a really big one). Vuldacon, great explanation about the coffee in the mountains. Here is a link to an article about Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee. Per example only coffee grown at elevations between 3,000 and 5,500 feet and certified by the Coffee Industry Board of Jamaica can be labeled as Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee.
Coffee grown at elevations between 1,500 and 3,000 feet is called Jamaica High Mountain and coffee grown below 1,500 feet is called Jamaica Supreme or Jamaica Low Mountain.

The Harbor of Carthage doesn´t need the coastal installation flag, as it only can be built by the seafaring Maghreb civ and needs the palace as a prerequisite. The capital of that civ is Carthage, so that wonder is always placed at the coast and in Carthage.

 

[jlvfr]

Is this normal amount of resources in one place? Looks like I'm gonna be world coffee magnate.
I also didn't know that coffee grows on rocks... I would more expect mineral resources there.
Played with slightly modified 2.45 biq (used Q-editor 1.29), but resources are unchanged,

Ooo wow, your civ is never going to sleep!

 

[Vuldacon]

Civinator... and by their appearance, those Coffee Beans must be the Very Rare Variety of Extra LARGE Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee

Nice image of the Blue Mountains.

 

[tjs282]

The capital of that civ is Carthage, so that wonder is always placed at the coast and in Carthage.

You do know that Seafaring Civs don't always start on the coast, though, don't you?

In ABLES-SG (linked in my sig), Germany (us) started on the same continent as England and Scandinavia, and neither London nor Trondheim were coastal -- they weren't even next to lakes, IIRC (rivers, though). And this was on a Standard-size (100 x 100) 70%-water map with 7 random opponents (Culture-linked, I guess, because the other continent -- which was about the same size as ours -- spawned all 5 Asian Civs). So it wasn't as though Lizzie and Ragnar were crowded off the coasts by dozens of other Civs, either.

I'd have to trawl through the thread to find illustrative screenies though (we played it back in 2013: a lot of the pics were hotlinked from e.g. Imgur, and are now no longer visible) -- or you could take my word for it...?

 

[Civinator]

You do know that Seafaring Civs don't always start on the coast, though, don't you?

Yes, I´m aware of this problem. It happens -even with the last patch for C3C, that optimized the starting locations of seafaring civs - with sizes of the map, that are too small in needed landtiles that allow the founding of cities, in correlation to the set minimum distance between civs in the editor. In extreme situations it can happen, that even seafaring civs can start one tile next to each other far away from the coast (overcrowded start).

Spoiler :

I have never run in such a situation in any of the many testgames of CCM2, nor was such a situation reported by anybody else for CCM2 (until now). If a situation should occure, that the starting location of the Maghreb civ for the capital Carthage wouldn´t be in a coastal tile and 'the coastal installation hook' would be set for the GW of the Harbor of Carthage, there would be a conflict in the settings for this GW between the prerequisite of the building palace and the prerequisite 'coastal installation'. From the logic in such a case the GW shouldn´t be buildable. This could be tested, but at present I don´t have the time for such a test. So it seems, that such a hook only prevents the building of that GW, if the capital is founded in a 'non-coastal' tile, what would be bad for the civ, as this GW triggers the Golden Age for that civ. So at present I don´t set such a hook behind the prerequisite that the wonder must be 'coastal'.

 

[Civinator]

You do know that Seafaring Civs don't always start on the coast, though, don't you?

Yes, I´m aware of this problem. It happens -even with the last patch for C3C, that optimized the starting locations of seafaring civs - with sizes of the map, that are too small in needed landtiles that allow the founding of cities, in correlation to the set minimum distance between civs in the editor. In extreme situations it can happen, that even seafaring civs can start one tile next to each other far away from the coast (overcrowded start).

Spoiler :

I have never run in such a situation in any of the many testgames of CCM2, nor was such a situation reported by anybody else for CCM2 (until now). If a situation should occure, that the starting location of the Maghreb civ for the capital Carthage wouldn´t be in a coastal tile and 'the coastal installation hook' would be set for the GW of the Harbor of Carthage, there would be a conflict in the settings for this GW between the prerequisite of the building palace and the prerequisite 'coastal installation'. From the logic in such a case the GW shouldn´t be buildable. This could be tested, but at present I don´t have the time for such a test. So it seems, that such a hook only prevents the building of that GW, if the capital is founded in a 'non-coastal' tile, what would be bad for the civ, as this GW triggers the Golden Age for that civ. So at present I don´t set such a hook behind the prerequisite that the wonder must be 'coastal'.

 

[Civinator]

First a remark to my 'doubled post' above: I don´t know, why my posts are frequently 'mirrored' at CFC. I made one post (what can be seen, as both posts above have the same date in minutes), but when I posted it, I saw it 4 times (!) in this thread. When I left the thread and returned, the post still was there twice.

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Civinator... and by their appearance, those Coffee Beans must be the Very Rare Variety of Extra LARGE Jamaican Blue Mountain Coffee

Let´s hope, that these 'brown things' were not left by the elephant that can be seen in the screenshot in the neighbourhood of the mountains, while training for its march across the Alpes. Shmelkin, I hope it is o.k, that I have borrowed your screenshot for this post.

 

[need my speed]

A civilisation could still move its Palace to a future coastal city, but yes, it would be unfair to them.

 

[Civinator]

A civilisation could still move its Palace to a future coastal city, but yes, it would be unfair to them.

need my speed, in CCM 1 and 2 the palace is a SW to stop the human exploit in prebuilding new palaces to change them later to rush-build other needed GWs. So in CCM it is not possible 'to move the palace'.

 

[tjs282]

So at present I don´t set such a hook behind the prerequisite that the wonder must be 'coastal'.

Maybe I missed something, but I'm still not really seeing why 'The Harbour of Carthage' needs to be tied to the (Maghreb) Palace at all -- unless only for the sake of forcing it to be built in the city of Carthage...?

(Or... did you give the Maghreb a unique Palace that no-one else can build...?)

But wouldn't it just be simpler to make that particular GW coastal, and maybe rename it to e.g. 'The Great Harbour' (or 'Cothon', as Wikipedia suggests the Carthaginians called it)? And -- if necessary to prevent other Civs from trying to build it -- have it require the Maghreb National Symbol/Flag improvement, rather than the Palace? That way it would still become buildable even in those rare games when the Maghreb/ Carthage don't get a coastal start (they'd just have to wait a bit longer for their GA -- until they've founded a town on the coast to build it in).

I guess the question is, is it more important (to you) for the Great Harbour to be in Carthage, or is it more important for the Maghreb -- especially when controlled by the AI -- to be able to build it and get a GA in every game?

in CCM 1 and 2 the palace is a SW ... So in CCM it is not possible 'to move the palace'.

Not by deliberately building it elsewhere, obviously, but presumably the SW-flag doesn't prevent the 'Palace-jump' (exploit) if the original capital is captured (or abandoned)? Not that I'm looking for loopholes, you understand, just curious!

Because in the Firaxis game, when a town is captured/abandoned, any SW(s) built there will be destroyed, and must be rebuilt elsewhere -- but I wouldn't want to have to do that with my Palace!

(But if it's the 'Centre of empire' flag that allows the Palace-jump-ability, then obviously there's no problem -- also for any AI unfortunate enough to lose its Palace...)

 

[Civinator]

I guess the question is, is it more important (to you) for the Great Harbour to be in Carthage, or is it more important for the Maghreb -- especially when controlled by the AI -- to be able to build it and get a GA in every game?

The Harbor of Carthage should be in Carthage . There were some other ancient cities with big harbors (at least in later times called cothon), but only Carthage had the Harbor of Carthage - and to own the Harbor of Carthage in era 1 makes me much more proud in a game than to own the 'harbor of al-Kaf' (of course this is a subjective feeling), especially when considering, that the starting location of a seafaring civ in a non-coastal tile is a very rare situation, mostly triggered by some wrong settings in the game.

in the Firaxis game, when a town is captured/abandoned, any SW(s) built there will be destroyed, and must be rebuilt elsewhere -- but I wouldn't want to have to do that with my Palace!

When the city holding the capital (and the palace) is captured, abandoned or destroyed, in the same turn the palace is automatically rebuilt in another city of that civ. Therefore the human exploit of prebuilding a palace to have big masses of shields to switch later to a needed GW, is not possible in CCM. Even if you would raze your capital to gain the option of another palace in your civ - what I don´t want to do, too with my palace - nothing would be gained for the prebuild of a GW.

 

[Civinator]

I guess the question is, is it more important (to you) for the Great Harbour to be in Carthage, or is it more important for the Maghreb -- especially when controlled by the AI -- to be able to build it and get a GA in every game?

The Harbor of Carthage should be in Carthage . There were some other ancient cities with big harbors (at least in later times called cothon), but only Carthage had the Harbor of Carthage - and to own the Harbor of Carthage in era 1 makes me much more proud in a game than to own the 'harbor of al-Kaf' (of course this is a subjective feeling), especially when considering, that the starting location of a seafaring civ in a non-coastal tile is a very rare situation, mostly triggered by some wrong settings in the game.

in the Firaxis game, when a town is captured/abandoned, any SW(s) built there will be destroyed, and must be rebuilt elsewhere -- but I wouldn't want to have to do that with my Palace!

When the city holding the capital (and the palace) is captured, abandoned or destroyed, in the same turn the palace is automatically rebuilt in another city of that civ. Therefore the human exploit of prebuilding a palace to have big masses of shields to switch later to a needed GW, is not possible in CCM. Even if you would raze your capital to gain the option of another palace in your civ - what I don´t want to do, too with my palace - nothing would be gained for the prebuild of a GW.

 

[Civinator]

I hope CCM2.50 will be ready for upload at the end of this month. The changes and improvements of CCM 2.50 will be huge, compared to the version you are playing now, and from the test games I made with CCM 2.50 I can say, CCM will become even much more interesting. CCM 2.50 itself is ready, but some late error reports for RARR (that can also be played with the new CCM2 files) and the fixes of those errors caused a small delay. At present I´m reworking CCM1, that also can be played with the expanded mainfile of CCM 2.50 and will become the new version of CCM for the scenario folder, holding a slightly different list of buildings, allowing to build and power up the different religious buildings (mosques, basilicas, wats and so on instead of religious centers and great religious centers), as in the scenario folder, the slots for city view graphics must not be taken into account (because the city view graphics in C3C are disabled for the scenario folder).

 

[jlvfr]

Most excellent news!

 

[Vuldacon]

Civinator... Yes, Very Good News! A Major amount of work and I am sure it will all Greatly Please the Many Fans and Players new to the Game.

 

[Civinator]

A. New concepts (for CCM2):

1. Additional victory options enabled:

a) Diplomatic victory with building the GW UN (as in standard Civ 3)

b) Cultural victory with : Single city: 180.000 culture; Civ: 600.000 culture

2. Highly customizable victory conditions at the game start:

You can set different values for victory conditions, per example if the game should last more turns than the 540 it will have normally, how much percentage of the landmass must be conquered, how many VPs are needed for a VP-Victory, – but be careful with changing the cultural values as these settings were done with the Quintillus editor and the game will swap back to the very low settings of cultural victory in standard Civ 3 (what is much too low for CCM2, taking into account, that a Great Artist can give 1.000 additional cultur points to a city).

3. CCM1 will become the CCM version for the scenario folder:

CCM1 starts with two settlers and one worker and more detailed religious buildings, as in the scenario folder it is not needed to take additionally care of the strict connection of pediaicons entries of buildings and the graphics of the city view (as for scenarios the city view is not enabled in C3C).

This version is not ready yet!

4. Minimap done by myrock added to the CCM2 interface, allowing a better location of your civ´s position on the map

B. Terrain and resources:

1. LM-terrain is now enabled for all kinds of terrain:

This opens a new dimension in creating all kind of maps with CCM2.

2. Forest terrain: Forests now have only one shield, but can be mined for the second shield => railroads now give a 3rd shield to forests.

3. CCM now has more resources

a) New strategic resources:

Hardwood gives an additional shield to forests and allows some better sailing ships and is needed for WWI planes and the Ballista Shop.

b) New luxury resource Exotic Fruits for jungles:

The cityscreen now holds slots for 10 luxury resources. The additional luxury resources of RARR can be activated for CCM easily in the editor.

c) New bonus resources:

The Cattle 2 and 3 and the Cereals 2 and 3 resources are only enabled for RARR.

C. Techs and Techtrees:

1. New techtree for era2:

The techtree of era 2 is the base for the upcoming CCM2 worldmap scenario.

2. Interesting decision when having researched the tech Exploration:

Now the player can go the path over the new tech Mercantilism to achieve a more early access of important new strategic resources (Coal and Rubber), steampower, the early air-unit Balloon and buildings with a better commercial benefit or the old way over the tech Absolutism to receive better military units. The path from tech Mercantilism to tech Economics also fits better to the historical development.

3. The first player to research Tech Humanism (that obsolets the SW producing holy men) receives an additional free tech

4. With tech Bastion Fortifications city walls become obsolete.

On the other side you now can protect your cities with City Fortifications, providing the same protection to cities with size 1, but are 5 times more expensive.

D. Buildings:

1. Religious communities in CCM2:

They now provide one culture and an additional happiness, that can be doubled with religious specific GWs, coming with tech Sacred Art.

2. Worldreligions:

These GWs work as in former versions of CCM2 (doubling happiness of religious centers, add a rel.community of that religion to every city).

3. Religious specific GWs, coming with tech Sacred Art in CCM2:

Double the happiness of religious communities, they belong to.

4. GW Holy City in CCM2: Doubles happiness of Great Religious Centers.

5. Temples become obsolete with tech Economics.

Holding Worldreligions becomes more important in later eras of CCM2.

5. The religious System in CCM1 works different:

It holds different religious level 1 and level 2 buildings (mosques, basilicas, wats and so on).


E. Units:

1. Tons of new units added, many of them done by Delta_Strife

2. Tons of great unit animations, created by imperator1961, fixed by Takeo.

3. Many wonderful new escorted artillery units done by Wotan49

4. Many Escorted Artillery units now have a higher defense value compared to the old CCM2 units.

5. Military Great Leaders now have the option to be changed to catapults, that can be upgraded to all kinds of escorted artillery units.

6. New more realistic upgrade paths for some era 2 sailing ships:

War Galleons upgrade to ships of the line, frigates upgrade to heavy frigates.


F. Others:

Tech Blurbs added to all CCM2 techs.

 

[Vuldacon]

Civinator... Wonderful New additions and options! WOW!

 

[Takeo]

A. New concepts (for CCM2):
1. Additional victory options enabled:

Sounds awesome! Waiting patiently.

What is the building in between the Factory and the Alamo?

 

[Civinator]

What is the building in between the Factory and the Alamo?

Sorry for the delay (caused by RL reasons) in answering your question:

It´s a Gas Holder (that also has its own graphics in the City View).

 

[Civinator]

In preparation of the upcoming upload of CCM2.50, the CCM2 introduction pages were updated by the chapter City View in CCM2:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ccm2-epic-mod.625812/#post-14957617