The gold is so important that I would have mined it immediately after farming the rice, and left roading for later. I would let the city grow to size 3 and start a settler, but I think you could make a good argument for another worker as well. If you wait until size 3 you can work the gold mine while building the worker/settler which is good for your research speed.
CFP Series
- Thread starter ChienFou
- Start date
I'd build something and let it grow too. Barracks or warrior.
About the next cities. This spot will be good production as well as the gems. It can have 4 farms after Bureacracy chain irrigation.
The Cow/wheat in the south is production sooner of course, with no jungle to chop.
About the next cities. This spot will be good production as well as the gems. It can have 4 farms after Bureacracy chain irrigation.
The Cow/wheat in the south is production sooner of course, with no jungle to chop.
Work the gold immediately. This one is so freaking important. It is a riverside gold, so extra commerce. Your city square has 1 extra food, rice gives you 2 extra food so you can already work the gold and rice at size 2. Good production, abundance of food and commerce. If you get masonry then farm the bananas and get a quary and you will have 8 hammers already at size 4, lots of commerce and still 2 food to spare.
First a few comments :
*) You had a 3F1C tile to work.
Why on earth did you work a 2F1H tile?
You should have grown to size 2 asap, then finished the warrior with the 3F1C +2H2C (unimproved gold) before switching.
*) Improving the rice is cool, but putting a farm on the bananas would have given you a better output
*) I would have researched mining before agri and mined the gold before farming anything. You have 3F from the city center + 3F from the bananas, you could have worked the gold at size 1 if needed!
So I guess you just didn't take into account the food boost you got from settling on the sugar.
I should have said all this before, sorry
.
Next, I would mine the gold (road? you're not unhealthy yet it's not a big deal), and build a settler. There is a double gem city to found and maybe copper to grab...
*) You had a 3F1C tile to work.
Why on earth did you work a 2F1H tile?
You should have grown to size 2 asap, then finished the warrior with the 3F1C +2H2C (unimproved gold) before switching.
*) Improving the rice is cool, but putting a farm on the bananas would have given you a better output
*) I would have researched mining before agri and mined the gold before farming anything. You have 3F from the city center + 3F from the bananas, you could have worked the gold at size 1 if needed!
So I guess you just didn't take into account the food boost you got from settling on the sugar.
I should have said all this before, sorry
.Next, I would mine the gold (road? you're not unhealthy yet it's not a big deal), and build a settler. There is a double gem city to found and maybe copper to grab...
Cabert, would you settle it before the Cow/Wheat in the south? I guess the capital has producton enough for now.
When the gems and gold are working , ChienFou you will outstrip the AI and have almost nothing to trade for.
depends on the jungle.
If there is jungle over both gems, it's useless to settle there now.
If even just one gem is forested insted of jungled, I'd rush there asap.
Hello all,
As you've research mining, I would be mining the gold as soon as possible instead of building a road you don't need for the moment. Your health is not a problem at alll at this moment ... Instead of exploiting the hill, I would select the banana : more food means faster growth and the additionnal commerce wille be great ... more over, you'll reach pop 3 sooner and have sufficient food to exploit the gold while still having extra food to grow fast ... And I'm not talking of the huge benefit of gold ...
Edit : to late!!!
As you've research mining, I would be mining the gold as soon as possible instead of building a road you don't need for the moment. Your health is not a problem at alll at this moment ... Instead of exploiting the hill, I would select the banana : more food means faster growth and the additionnal commerce wille be great ... more over, you'll reach pop 3 sooner and have sufficient food to exploit the gold while still having extra food to grow fast ... And I'm not talking of the huge benefit of gold ...
Edit : to late!!!
ABigCivFan
Emperor
a few suggestions(some already mentioned by others):
1). In the beginning, city growth is #1. So first pop should always work the highest food tile (farmed river banana), follow by farmed rice, then mined gold. This will be the fastest way to get all 3 resource tiles worked.
2). I would use the worker to build a road on the 1N hill FIRST, that is the tile connecting all 3 resources tiles, it will save you several turns later moving from res to res. I would also build a road on each res After completing improving them. This way you can move to the next resource and start improve on the same turn.
1). In the beginning, city growth is #1. So first pop should always work the highest food tile (farmed river banana), follow by farmed rice, then mined gold. This will be the fastest way to get all 3 resource tiles worked.
2). I would use the worker to build a road on the 1N hill FIRST, that is the tile connecting all 3 resources tiles, it will save you several turns later moving from res to res. I would also build a road on each res After completing improving them. This way you can move to the next resource and start improve on the same turn.
namliaM
Deity
Early on dont build roads unless you need them... Getting resources up when they are needed is mucho more important.
A road takes longer to make than the one turn lost....
Cabert allready said this, but I will say it again... The farmed Bananas > Farmed but Unirrigated Rice. Both are 4 food, but the bananas give you an extra commerce.
That suggested city spot has WAY to much jungle to settle now...I would settle a city on that southern river first...
Correction that is low on food... The cow-wheat city (1 NW of the wheat) looks prommising....
A road takes longer to make than the one turn lost....
Cabert allready said this, but I will say it again... The farmed Bananas > Farmed but Unirrigated Rice. Both are 4 food, but the bananas give you an extra commerce.
That suggested city spot has WAY to much jungle to settle now...
Correction that is low on food... The cow-wheat city (1 NW of the wheat) looks prommising....
What I should have done
Wow! It is exactly this sort of input that us wannabes need!
I re-ran the game following the above advice. The warrior took the same moves as before, and is healing South of the city. I have a mindblock (perhaps I'm not alone?) on farming tiles that will later take a plantation, and now it's pointed out that farming the bananas gains a gold it's obvious.
I did put a road on the hill 1N of the city (cost 3 turns) and as a result the bananas came on stream this turn, rather than 3 turns earlier. I get this cost back by the time I've finished the rice and gold for a total of about 6 food and 3 gold with a free road thrown in - is that worth it? We get it back pretty quickly
Should I have micro-managed the warrior build so Kyoto grew and the warrior finished this turn, but used bananas and gold instead of the way i did it before??
However, what is the outcome of this different start?
1) Kyoto has 7 more food towards becoming size 3;
2) the warrior is 7/8 hammers from completion and will complete 3 turns later than before
3) we will recover the turns of the worker moving to the other two early improvement sites for a small fixed cost and will gain in the medium turn.
4) Our research is five turns advanced
Here's the screenshot of the city in the same year.
I'm going to continue with the original game, since some evil person out here is bound to post next week "domination in 1600AD!", while we're still in the dark ages.
Anyway, let's move on: warrior/settler/worker? The gems are both in the jungle, so we don't need a settler there yet. We can send a settler South? Start a warrior - are we still going for growth or do we work the gold tile now? and shift to settler at Size 3? My inclination is to work the gold and switch at size 3 to a settler - it's what I'd normally do, so it MUST be wrong
Next tech? Does that depend on whether we find copper or not? I fancy AH to reveal horses, we can wait a bit for cottages and quarries as our worker has quite a long job-list as yet.
Is everyone content with the early warrior moves? I'm planning on sending Kyoto's warrior East, tracking the Northern sea border, and the Southern warrior (5 turns to heal) South or SE. We need escort duty and city and tile defence from Barbars from about 2000 BC IIRC. So does one of the warriors come back to do that? Again, I MUST be wrong since I typically build a couple more warriors then a second worker after the first settler to police the improved tiles and escort the settler, leaving the first two to go walkabout.
bluedevil99
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 139
I'd say your intuition is correct. Depending on when BW comes in, I sometimes chop my first settler at size 2. But working that gold gives you a huge early advantage, so it's best to grow to 3 asap then switch to settler while working gold/rice/banana farm. It looks like BW will come in in time for you to chop one of the riverside grassland tiles to shave a few turns off your settler.
The location of your 2nd city of course depends on copper, but if none is nearby I'd go for the cow/wheat site as you can get two food resources in the first ring and plety of forest for production. Send the worker down there alongside your settler to get that food online asap, and have your capital immediately build another worker to replace him.
Given that you're looking for advice on micromanagement, I'd stop at that point and let us have a look (possibly earlier if copper pops nearby and you want input on city location). Tech-wise, if there's no nearby copper you want to go BW next for sure; if there is, maybe go masonry as a plains quarry gives you the same food and more hammers than a mined grassland hill.
Edit: This should read "AH next" (Animal Husbandry)
The location of your 2nd city of course depends on copper, but if none is nearby I'd go for the cow/wheat site as you can get two food resources in the first ring and plety of forest for production. Send the worker down there alongside your settler to get that food online asap, and have your capital immediately build another worker to replace him.
Given that you're looking for advice on micromanagement, I'd stop at that point and let us have a look (possibly earlier if copper pops nearby and you want input on city location). Tech-wise, if there's no nearby copper you want to go BW next for sure; if there is, maybe go masonry as a plains quarry gives you the same food and more hammers than a mined grassland hill.
Edit: This should read "AH next" (Animal Husbandry)
From my point of view :
Building the road could have been done later ...
Farming the banana
Farming the rice until mining
as soon as mining is discovered -> mine the gold
then finish farming the rice and the build road if nothing else to do
Even if the 2 commerces from the gold mine are great I may have choosen the rice for growing until the gold is fully mined ...
growth growth growth ..
Building the road could have been done later ...
Farming the banana
Farming the rice until mining
as soon as mining is discovered -> mine the gold
then finish farming the rice and the build road if nothing else to do
Even if the 2 commerces from the gold mine are great I may have choosen the rice for growing until the gold is fully mined ...
growth growth growth ..
ABigCivFan
Emperor
It only costs 2 turns not 3 to build a road. since it is a grass hill seperating your 3 resources, it takes 2 turns each just getting from 1 resource to the other without that road. with that road, it only takes 1 turn to jump between resources. Also later when BW online, you can immedietly chop that tree 1N without pause. without that road everytime your worker goes by that hill(no possible short cut), he wastes a turn.
Alternatively, have the worker farm the banana before roading 1N hill (to get farm banana 2 turns earlier).
1.Farm banana (no need to road since it is on the same river)
2.Road 1N hill while city grow to size 2
3.farm rice while city grow to size 2 (try time growing to pop 2 as soon as rice farmed)
4. road rice
5. 1 turn to gold hill
6. mine gold hill.
7. road gold hill
8. road to marble (res Masonary)
9. build quarry
This should minimize the waste of worker turns, and you can bring rice and gold online slightly faster and all hooked up. Later while travesing to other tiles(to chop) via this tile is also faster. And there wont be any repeat work to hook up the res later. Your workers will be soon off to build improvement for the new cities.
I would suggest masonary after BW since quarry marble give 1
+4
+1
which is a huge boost for your later productions (much faster settler/worker/worrior builds).Next try time the settler with discovery of AH for possible horse.
namliaM
Deity
Move to the Banana, farm it, move to the gold start mining it at 3130, meanwhile get food:
OK So I played just a little further to 2710 and this is where I am:
Just finished the farm on the rice paddy, while moving from the Gold to the rice I put 1 turn into a road on that grassland.
I finished BW & started masonry to hook up that Marble (Hammers + Commerce = allways good). I will actually stop that barracks which I started just to grow to 4 and start a settler.
P.S. Roading does take 3 turns!
P.P.S I forget to mention this earlier, but why did you pause a turn to get the panther to kill you? I allways run from animals if I can, keep moving instead of healing... this gets you more huts. Not that it did me a lot of good this game, but.... chances chances...
OK So I played just a little further to 2710 and this is where I am:
Just finished the farm on the rice paddy, while moving from the Gold to the rice I put 1 turn into a road on that grassland.
I finished BW & started masonry to hook up that Marble (Hammers + Commerce = allways good). I will actually stop that barracks which I started just to grow to 4 and start a settler.
P.S. Roading does take 3 turns!
P.P.S I forget to mention this earlier, but why did you pause a turn to get the panther to kill you? I allways run from animals if I can, keep moving instead of healing... this gets you more huts. Not that it did me a lot of good this game, but.... chances chances...
3130-2740BC I decided to build a warrior for a bit, work the gold and because I'd almost finished the road on the rice decided to let that finish. Working the gold reduced the research time for BW to 14 turns, so, in reality I'd only lost three turns on research because of my choice of rice over banana. (but I'm losing one commerce per turn even so). Here's the city screen:
I went with ACivFanatic's idea of building the road on the 1N forested hill, even though it costs 3 gold (epic speed, so 3 turns) in terms of the goldmine. You can see the warrior setting off to take the second pass round the dity and expand our horizons.
The rice hooked up; I appreciate there's no direct immediate benefit, but I'm planning to chop the forest on the hill once the mine's done, to speed up the settler.
My Southern Woodsman 1 warrior was still healing in a wood and got eaten by a wolf. It had nowhere to run and then we also bumped into Rameses, East of Kyoto. The warrior there was planning on turning South shortly to start the 2nd circuit of Kyoto.
The Goldmine came on stream one turn before BW finished, and Kyoto grew to size 3, with the next warrior 2 turns from completion. I decided to build the road as it really does cost 1 turn fewer. The warrior I'd sent South got an XP beating up the man-eating wolf I'd met before, and I switched to building the settler.
Quite a lot happened this turn as I found Napoleon's land
and next turn we got to BW
and since there was no copper around I thought AH made sense. We're going to need to protect ourselves soon, and horses might help. It will complete about when the settler does assuming I chop the 1N forest
My Southern Warrior looked a bit vulnerable and I retreated to the 1NE wood
So, we haven't got copper; should we go AH or IW for protection or Masonry to quarry the marble and speed research? Given the worker has bananas to farm and a forest to chop I don't see the point of the quarry.
I'm wondering what to do with the Southern warrior, but the Eastern one seems to be doing a good job so far.
I hope you're not all getting bored with the slow pace of this, but the decisions are coming thick and fast. I did stress the thread's about micro-management, and I for one am gaining immensely from the comments. Please keep it up.
PS. I can't get anchor and set_anchor to work onto the second page. I really do suck at mark-up languages.
Any thoughts?
Gamefile 2740BC
I went with ACivFanatic's idea of building the road on the 1N forested hill, even though it costs 3 gold (epic speed, so 3 turns) in terms of the goldmine. You can see the warrior setting off to take the second pass round the dity and expand our horizons.
The rice hooked up; I appreciate there's no direct immediate benefit, but I'm planning to chop the forest on the hill once the mine's done, to speed up the settler.
My Southern Woodsman 1 warrior was still healing in a wood and got eaten by a wolf. It had nowhere to run and then we also bumped into Rameses, East of Kyoto. The warrior there was planning on turning South shortly to start the 2nd circuit of Kyoto.
The Goldmine came on stream one turn before BW finished, and Kyoto grew to size 3, with the next warrior 2 turns from completion. I decided to build the road as it really does cost 1 turn fewer. The warrior I'd sent South got an XP beating up the man-eating wolf I'd met before, and I switched to building the settler.
Quite a lot happened this turn as I found Napoleon's land
and next turn we got to BW
and since there was no copper around I thought AH made sense. We're going to need to protect ourselves soon, and horses might help. It will complete about when the settler does assuming I chop the 1N forest
My Southern Warrior looked a bit vulnerable and I retreated to the 1NE wood
So, we haven't got copper; should we go AH or IW for protection or Masonry to quarry the marble and speed research? Given the worker has bananas to farm and a forest to chop I don't see the point of the quarry.
I'm wondering what to do with the Southern warrior, but the Eastern one seems to be doing a good job so far.
I hope you're not all getting bored with the slow pace of this, but the decisions are coming thick and fast. I did stress the thread's about micro-management, and I for one am gaining immensely from the comments. Please keep it up.
PS. I can't get anchor and set_anchor to work onto the second page. I really do suck at mark-up languages.
Any thoughts?Gamefile 2740BC
ABigCivFan
Emperor
AH is good since we did not find copper. Hope we see horse in sight when the settler is built. Masonry, Pottery, Oracle techs next.
Fortify that south worrior on hill, and hope to gain some xp. Hill/Forrest + fortify bonus means he can easily kill even barb archers when defending. Besides most likely the settler will head his way to settle Cow+wheat production city, and he will defend that city. Try not to lose him.
ok, I was too used to normal speed....3 turns for a road?! that sucks!
Edit: In my normal speed games(2 turns to build a road), I often build 2 workers early. They improve all resources fast in capital, and by the time I have a settler, the workers should already built a road leading to the new city. And 2 workers can then bring the 2nd city productive instantly. So the extra turns I invest in a 2nd worker is almost always worth the doubled improvemnt/roading speed. But Epic speed is different now i realized.
Fortify that south worrior on hill, and hope to gain some xp. Hill/Forrest + fortify bonus means he can easily kill even barb archers when defending. Besides most likely the settler will head his way to settle Cow+wheat production city, and he will defend that city. Try not to lose him.
ok, I was too used to normal speed....3 turns for a road?! that sucks!
Edit: In my normal speed games(2 turns to build a road), I often build 2 workers early. They improve all resources fast in capital, and by the time I have a settler, the workers should already built a road leading to the new city. And 2 workers can then bring the 2nd city productive instantly. So the extra turns I invest in a 2nd worker is almost always worth the doubled improvemnt/roading speed. But Epic speed is different now i realized.
namliaM
Deity
Why are you building the settler at size 3 with a warrior half finished?? This makes no sence, finish the warrior first.
Roading the Hill and the gold is costing you a lot... Atleast the 1 commerce but also 1 food/turn => Early game food is king!
I think AH is the right choice at this point, also it will allow you to develop the Cow...
Edit: I shadow played your set.
Stopping and skipping the roading, mining the gold and starting the farm on the Bananananananas
Meanwhile while the worker was mining at size 2 working the Nanananas + rice while building the warrior. Course the warrior was delayed some....
MyKyoto & Civ @ 2740
I would also like to talk about your scouting, what were you hoping to find up north? To me I expect to find coast and Jungle....
If I do find anything else but Jungle I wouldnt expect to settle that before city #3 or #4 => Therefor I am not intrested....
I am more intrested in that corn/wine site due southeast, tho I stuck by your scouting ....
Roading the Hill and the gold is costing you a lot... Atleast the 1 commerce but also 1 food/turn => Early game food is king!
I think AH is the right choice at this point, also it will allow you to develop the Cow...
Edit: I shadow played your set.
Stopping and skipping the roading, mining the gold and starting the farm on the Bananananananas
Meanwhile while the worker was mining at size 2 working the Nanananas + rice while building the warrior. Course the warrior was delayed some....
MyKyoto & Civ @ 2740
I would also like to talk about your scouting, what were you hoping to find up north? To me I expect to find coast and Jungle....
If I do find anything else but Jungle I wouldnt expect to settle that before city #3 or #4 => Therefor I am not intrested....
I am more intrested in that corn/wine site due southeast, tho I stuck by your scouting ....
bluedevil99
Warlord
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 139
It's a shame there's no copper nearby; good ole Napolean is ripe for an axe rush. Have your eastern warrior bust the rest of that fog to his SW, maybe you'll get lucky. Depending on where horses pop and where he builds his next cities you might end up going to war with chariots anyway (I have the funny feeling he'll grab that rice/gems site, which is actually just fine since the gems are unworkable until IW, so it basically saves you a settler).
Chop one of the riverside forests, then have your worker build a road toward the south (or maybe farm the tile you chopped) until the settler finishes. Then the worker and settler go south together while the capital builds a second worker. I'd put my second city 1W of the wheat to get both food resources in the first ring and get it growing ASAP. This could be a decent production site (more likely, since Nappy being close probably means a BC war), or the perfect place to whip/chop a library and run a couple of scientists for an early GS. Heck, it's got enough GL/plains tiles and excess food, you could cottage it if you wanted to. It is really nice that you have two flexible early cities, though of course you'll need to commit and specialize them both eventually.
Hopefully masonry is done by the time the second worker finishes in your capitol. You can then either build a warrior or two for fogbusting while growing to size 4 and building the quarry, or roll the dice and chop another settler right away to go out and grab horses. (I'd be tempted to do the second, but I'd feel bad if one barb archer ruined your game...)
EDIT: Wait, did I see that you haven't farmed that banana yet?? If so, have your worker do that NOW!!
Chop one of the riverside forests, then have your worker build a road toward the south (or maybe farm the tile you chopped) until the settler finishes. Then the worker and settler go south together while the capital builds a second worker. I'd put my second city 1W of the wheat to get both food resources in the first ring and get it growing ASAP. This could be a decent production site (more likely, since Nappy being close probably means a BC war), or the perfect place to whip/chop a library and run a couple of scientists for an early GS. Heck, it's got enough GL/plains tiles and excess food, you could cottage it if you wanted to. It is really nice that you have two flexible early cities, though of course you'll need to commit and specialize them both eventually.
Hopefully masonry is done by the time the second worker finishes in your capitol. You can then either build a warrior or two for fogbusting while growing to size 4 and building the quarry, or roll the dice and chop another settler right away to go out and grab horses. (I'd be tempted to do the second, but I'd feel bad if one barb archer ruined your game...)
EDIT: Wait, did I see that you haven't farmed that banana yet?? If so, have your worker do that NOW!!
Similar threads
- Locked
