CFP Series

[ChienFou]

yes Oyzar. It's horrible

820-BC - 5-AD Confucianism spread to Osaka in 715, which will help the city growth, and raher than chase down nappy I figured I needed to build 3 more cities. A gem city, a stone city and a city on the coast SE of Tokyo or an iron city if I found it. Since nappy was expanding West quite quickly, I figured I should get the gem city first, even though I'd need IW to do anything with it. This was a clear error. It sat there with a green face for 500 years, until I'd linked up all the the health squares, and even then I could do little to get the monument out. Huge loss of tempo.

By 610 Kyoto was stuck into a settler and I chopped a forest for it, having built a cottage and a mine. Kyoto was still size 5. This sucks compared to what ABigCivFan was up to by now.

... and in 520 I founded the gem city, Satsuma. It's awful play; don't tell me

In 505 I got Construction and switched to alphabet. I was building a settler in Osaka for the stone city when KK went and pinched the site in 490. So it's obvious I should have grabbed that first and left the gems till I'd got IW. more humiliation The barbs were beginning to swarm now, but I kept the pillaging to a minimum and my axes were up to that.

In the meantime I went on exploring and eventually found Rameses in 475, penned in by KK and nappy in the far West, and possibly on a choke point to more land NE of him. So in 325, I founded a coastal city, Kagoshima to work the fur and wheat South of Osaka.

Tokyo produced a cat in 295, Ok, don't ask me why I bothered, I should have concentrated on turning the first 3 cities into production sites; I wasn't planning a war yet. I tech'd alphabet in 205 and had a look at the foreign advisor. KK was pleased, nappy cautious and Rameses annoyed. nappy was prepared to trade Sailing and Hunting for Writing and Meditation. I didn't want to trade with KK as it'll encourage his growth, so I took the trade

In 100BC KK demanded CoL. I'm a softy and gave it to him, he rapidly overtook me in the powergraph after that though he did give me Iron Working when I asked him nicely (I'd already half researched it, so even that was a phyrric victory. I spotted some iron and had almost finished my 6th settler so in 55 I settled Nara, to the East of Kyoto. [If you ever get the chance to visit the temple there, take it. There's a bronze Bhudda about 15 metres tall, about a 1000 years old. - utterly amazing.]

You can see Satsuma, North of Nara, still constructing the monument, though I did get a worker onto the rice about now. Horrible; Horrible; horrible

In 25BC I founded the Kong Miao in Tokyo (I had at least stuck a couple of scientists in Kyoto (though again, I should perhaps let it grow to its cap first). By 5-AD Kyoto was size 7, on its cap, running 2 scientists and building a temple so it could expand. Napolean was prepared to trade Polytheism and Archery and cease trading with Rameses for CoL. KK wanted Math for Poly and Arch.

here's the map:

Well; there we are; probably 30-40 turns behind ABigCivFan. No more wonders built. Us Prince wannabees really do need help

Gamefile 5 AD

 

[namliaM]

I did play up to 5ad as well, but .... I will post details later...

I have sined for I have overexpanded a little -6 gpt at 60%, but there is hope yet... I havent got a single Courthouse or market yet... so that should really help if I get them Up...

I am roughly 27 turns (at 60% which I cannot hold at present) from Samurai and at war with Napy at the request of Ramesses. Nappy was on my hitlist anyway, got the cheap +1 diplo with Ram and will pick up some much needed gold from captured cities to keep my science going to Samurai

@CF
Yep settling in the wrong order really bites... But if you start spotting your own mistakes... you are really picking up...
Now only to spot the mistakes before they happen...
Like Nara, WHY in heaven did you deside to build a courthouse there? Granary, Obelisk or even Library is much more usefull.

 

[pigswill]

It occurs to me that CF doesn't appear to have dotmapped very carefully. There's a few cities with several resources but there are wide open spaces between the cities too. I've whizzed through a bit of a shadow. Not brilliant but not a disaster either (I hope). Here's my stab at a dotmap:

You've got space for 6-8 cities depending on how quickly you expand vis a vis the AI.

 

[ABigCivFan]

CF, you dug a hole for yourself by spreading your cities too far apart from Capital. They drain your gold severely and will not pay for themselves for a long time.

They are too far apart to be safe from unexpected invasions.

Your early goal in terms of city placement should be: Use the miminum number of cities to claim maximum number of resources.

They should be placed tightly around your capital unless for blocking purpose.

This will result in much better quality cities instead of bunch of size 1 cities that will not grow.

Quality cities give you GPs, Productions, and commerce. Remember each additional city increases maint. for ALL your cities, so you have to emphasize quality over quantity.

Again, you could just try this to remedy your over expension habbit: when ever you settle a new city, try to have at least 1 worker to improve its tiles. If you do not have that extra worker, do not settle that city, wait until you have a worker.

Otherwise you seem have a lot of trouble setting your priorities for your empire both short term and long term. You need to think at the end of each turn what is the best Research/Build/Trade actions next that would benefit your empire the most.

Did you build the Great Liberary? should not be hard since your have marble.

Did you swith to Heri. Rule? you need it for large and more power cities.

After you switch to Heri Rule, you should build multiple Chariots/worriors to keep your cities grow, Axe and Cats are too expensive serving happy policing roles.

Try start a war with someone, get a level 4 unit and build Heroric Epic in Tokyo, that will benefit your empire immensely for the long term.

Try spend a little more time between turn planning and thinking, dont click that "end Turn" button too quickly...

 

[ChienFou]

Well guys, I must thank you all a great deal. There are lots of general lessons to be learned here, and some very helpful specific advice. I'm thinking that I've got enough input to try another start and see whether I can put some of this in to practice.

To summarise; 3, possibly four cities founded and grown as rapidly as possible. A worker for each city and build the workers first. Don't spread them too widely. Chop settlers (and workers) as the city's not growing while they're being built. Grab the resources by all means but also think about the dotmap. Tend to build wonders in the capital once it's spawned the first bunch of settlers, but Oracle is worth grabbing early if feasible (marble). One micro-management point. If chopping, do you swap a worker/settler and a warrior in the build queue so that the move the chop happens, the settler grows, but the rest of the time the worker is growing along with the city?

Have we gotten enough from this project to make it worth trying the next; and shall I stick with Toku or try a different Leader?

 

[ABigCivFan]

Why not try play the same game from 4000BC to 5AD again.

You know what you did, so try it again with new things you just learned. It wont take too long and you will know how much better you do comparitively. You also have my game at 5AD to compare.

I think that is the most effective way to learn is to repeat something that you did wrong and see how much better you do with a different approach. This will reinforce the knowledge that you just gained.

There are too many factors in early period that there is very few "rule of thumb" in this game. So if you start another game, you might need to do a lot of things differently.

 

[pigswill]

Its a good learning strategy to replay the same map; yes its spoiled but you'll still learn about balancing growth/expansion/production/research.

I'd still say forget the Oracle; don't build any wonders before Glib.

 

[namliaM]

Oracle is a crutch but if you use it wisely it is allmost overpowered...

I suggested earlier in this thread to forget about wonders all together and go for a victory (any) without building a single wonder (yourself)

I find when you are stepping up (or having truble) focus on core business, without the huge distractions that Wonders make and huge investments they take too.

Some people say, why build the Great lib when you can give the tech + marble to your neighbour, while building Cats and Axemen. You can capture the TGL city + 2 more with those units you build instead of TGL.

edit: if you dont want to know dont look

Spoiler :

I used Oracle to net me Civil Service, which is quite doable with a start like this where you have early gold to speed research along

 

[ChienFou]

OK, I'm going to play this through one more time to 5AD, fairly quickly and trying not to cheat. I'll post a short final report. I have already tried a new start and will start a new thread for it. Thanks all for your encouragement and support.

 

[namliaM]

I think I played this pretty much like I would have this game if I had played it without pre/knowledge of the map.

Spoiler :

Even so I played the start like CF did, the opening moves make sence to me, except for waiting on that panther to strike... but what the Heck.
Research in this case is an easy choice, agr, Mining, BW for now.

This is however where all "replay" ends...

I started with worker first (offfcourse) once the worker finished I set the governer to maximize food and started a warrior. This warrior once done can continue the sweep of Kyoto while my first warrior heads off south to that hill and onward to the southeast. The second warrior will probably be heading south/southwest.



A few turns later I find a village, but they are hostile. I quickly promote to the forrest 1 promo but non the less I say goodby to my warrior, much to my surprise he survives... Probably due to combat 1 + Forrest and the forrest hill he is on. It really is a pain if you lose your early warrior.
I love it tho to not upgrade to fast, it takes a few more turns to heal.... but it really helps when you are in a yam like this.


After healing up the warrior heads off to the southeast as I was planning to earlier. But he spots a hill to the south-west, offcourse this kinds off things I take advantage off. More tiles to be seen, tho it is against my plans. I spot the Village to the east and pick up some gold. One can never have to much gold

Meanwhile this is what Kyoto looks like.

Raking in the food while the worker is currently mining (or about to start) the gold.

A couple of turns later BW comes in and I revolt IMEDIATLY.
This is what my knowledge of the world looks like at this time.

Soon I will start a settler and settle the Bronze, if there would not have been BW I would probably select AH or Hunting for research. But as it is, I start Pottery so Kyoto can start building the Granary.
My second warrior is heading southwest to explore tho will return east in order to escort the settler.

Comming out of anarchy the worker has finished the Mine of the gold. This is a big power tile, to good to not work eventho it is low on food. Time to interupt the governer, I leave the food marker on but MM 1 citizen from the forrest to the gold, this leaves 2 turns on the warrior.

2 turns later warrior finished and settler starts.

The worker moved from the gold to the forrest to chop it for faster settler production.

A few quick turns later, the settler is ready to .... be .... for 2 pop.
The city is at just about full food bar so it will grow back to size 3 the next turn.

Meanwhile I moved my 2 new warriors to fogbust the route to the new city.


The worker goes to chop the Plains forrest south of Kyoto as the settler finishes up and heads off. Kyoto starts a Granary, while growing again to size 4.
Meanwhile my Original warrior has completed his trip back north can discovered the French capitol as well as the norther coastline with loaded of jungle.
It is not worth settling there for a long while....

-- To be continued --

 

[namliaM]

CivFanatics appearently went down, so I couldnt continue last time

Spoiler :

I left you with a settler on the lose, well it settles in 2410 the city of Osaka.

It starts a granary for now, while I have some turns left on Myst.
The warrior will head west/south-west to scout that area.

A few turns later Kyoto finishes the granary, helped by the chopped forrest at size 4 with just a few turns of whip unhappyness left.
With 7 turns to grow to 5 and 5 turns for the warrior to build, this is perfect.
Warrior => Worker build is lined up...

After researching Myst=> Masonry it is time to start worrying about other stuff.
Meditation => Priesthood => Writing is selected, so we can start both the Oracle and the Library.

This is where I remeber, darn that obelisk.... so I finaly start that obelisk in Osaka.

Quite some turns lost here in the culture, this may come back to hount me...
Up north the warrior has finished and the worker has some production in it, time to get out the

The first worker followed the settler to Osaka to start farming the Wine, so that Osaka can start adding to the commercial empire as well as getting us some copper soon....

This worker will stay wity Kyoto....

I forget exactly how many but... I build some warriors untill I start the barracks to wait for Kyoto to grow back again to size 4

Finaly again at the max of the foodbar and the quary is just finished. The marble is clearly better than the forrest tile... MM it and I start another settler.


Writing is just about finished, next up are Mathmatics and CoL. 17 and 23 turns each... wow...


The settler is ready to be whipped and the whip angre is gone, so Kyoto goes down to pop 2 again.... and will next turn grow to size 3 to work the Gold again.

This settler goes south of Kyoto to start Tokyo just west of the wheat. The warrior together with the culture from Kyoto busted the fog so the settler can run there.
It starts a .... no not an obelisk, there is nothing much out in the second ring of this city... It starts a library

My fog busting warriors encounter the first human barbarian in the form of a warrior.

I have no clue as to why I gave this warrior Combat 2 instead of Woodsman... but hey...
You can see Osaka finished the Obelisk and returned to the granary it allready started. The worker has farmed both the wines and roaded all the tiles.
Tokyo tho... will take "for ever" to finish that library....


With the whip angre allmost gone Kyoto can (and will) finish the library with a whip of 2 pop, yes possibly it would have been better to wait a little but .... yeah I wanted that library. Also I turned down science to 0 just for this turn so I can run 100% a couple of turns with the boon of the library.
It saves a few beakers... but I forget the slider and run up a bankaccount, a few turns later I realize my mistake.... and turn the slider back to 100%.

The overflow of the Library was applied to the Oracle. and mostly (IIRC) continued building the Oracle.

Some turns later Kyoto is at size 5 + 1 unhappy from the whip. So I need to limit the growth a little...

The worker we whipped up farmed and build that cottage, then it moved on to Tokyo to improve the wheat and chop some forrests to speed up that library there.


Meanwhile in Osaka the city has finished both the granary and a barracks. The copper is hooked up and it is time to start some Axemen.

A few turns later the Oracle is down to 1 turn, but CoL still has 9 turns on the counter. Because one can never have enough busters out there, I insert some warriors to delay oracle just enough for CoL to come in.


After finishing one warrior I change my mind and insert the barracks which allready has some hammers in it from earlier in the game. A few quick turns... and...


And offcourse I pick CS, start currency for more money!!!! And offcourse revolt...

This all seems like a good idea, but a turn later I change my mind and insert Alphabet before Currency so I can backfill my techs (like AH, which I want most of all so I can put a pasture on Tokyo's Cow)
Offcourse one could go the warmongers route here and beeline Machinery for samurais and loads of fun fighting archers with samurais...

Meanwhile Kyoto has gotten a bit to big... So lets get another settler....


Offcourse I founded Confu in Tokyo where I was hoping for Osaka, the free Missionary goes to spread Confu to Kyoto and I revolt to confu for the happy face....

 

[Sarek]

Whatever you do, once you get the start you like, please play this one as far as you can.
I'm playing a shadow as well and all I can say is that this is a great game!!!
Thanks for starting the thread and posting the save.